Ship Builds & Load Outs Quick Question about my current Viper fit

[SoupOrJuice]

Okay so here's my current Viper fit: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70M,7tw7tw4ws4ws01Q3wo,2-4s5K503I5A5U3c,13q7Pc7d_9pM

[Viper]
M: 2E/F Multi-cannon
M: 2E/F Multi-cannon
S: 1E/F Beam Laser
S: 1E/F Beam Laser
U: 0I Chaff Launcher
U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner


BH: 1I Lightweight Alloy
RB: 3A Power Plant
TM: 3D Thrusters
FH: 3B Frame Shift Drive
EC: 2A Life Support
PC: 3C Power Distributor
SS: 3E Sensors
FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)


3: 3D Hull Reinforcement Package
3: 3A Shield Generator
2: 2C Shield Cell Bank
1: 1E Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
---
Shield: 178.50 MJ
Power : 8.74 MW retracted (73%)
        11.24 MW deployed (94%)
        12.00 MW available
Mass  : 116.4 T empty
        120.4 T full
Range : 10.68 LY
Price : 1,667,460 CR

(I can make it a coriolis link if need be, I just like this one better personally.)

My question is - what next? I should say that currently I'm doing Supercruise bounty-hunting, with a bit of Nav Beacon/RES hunting when the mood strikes (and picking up combat missions here and there when the targets are "Wanted" or "Enemy" status), and that's what I'll be doing for the forseeable future. I haven't successfully taken on an Anaconda or a Python yet, but pretty much anything else I've been able to kill (Fer-De-Lance being a 50/50 exception).

I'm probably grabbing a 3A Power Distributor but after that I'm not sure what to grab. 3A FSD maybe, but that won't improve my combat in any way. Is there anything I can do to push the Viper over the edge in terms of combat potential? Is a better Hull worth it? (I feel like the lesser agility isn't worth the added survivability.) Should I replace the KWS with a Shield Booster? (I find that my KWS isn't really picking up many extra, I have a 4k bounty sitting for the Empire currently but that's it after 10+ bounty kills in the last few days.) Or even a Frame Wake Scanner instead (for chasing some hard-to-kill bounties)? Any and all tips appreciated here!!!

(One last question - I've heard a lot that Burst/Pulse Lasers > Beam, but why? They seem to shoot a lot slower, and I don't mind the added Weapon PIP needed to get the enemy Shields down quick enough.)

 

[Philip Coutts]

Tricky one. It might be worth upgrading top a Vulture if you can afford it as they are a great combat ship. You could also give a war zone a go, you can make money quickly by staying on the edge of the fight and picking targets that have already had their shields taken out.

As for beams v pulse, beams do more damage per second but heat up a lot quicker so a lot of people opt for pulse instead. If you can manage the heat side of things then beams are a great option.

 

[Bazziegamer]

are you able to keep close to your enemies? if so you could try fixed fragment cannons instead of multis. then you should be able to take on a python if you can stay close.

 

[Ceekay]

Fit a 3A PD and try turreted beams, unless you're BHing in an anarchy system a KWS isn't essential (especially when you have to fly several hundred LY to cash in the bounties) I'd fit a A grade shield booster and a D grade sensor for better range and lower mass, do you need an A grade life support if not drop to a D grade and a better interdictor will make life easier too.

How about this build

http://coriolis.io/outfit/viper/03A3A3A2D3A3D2C2626100q000429405566.AwRj4yyA.Aw1-AjMQ

 

[SoupOrJuice]

I think I like that build Ceekay, it makes sense. I don't do a lot of Anarchy stuff so yeah KWS isn't necessary I've found. If I upgrade to an A Grade FSD then the Life Support will be necessary because the power draw will go over (on hardpoint deployment). Better interdictor is a good idea, never really gave much mind to it but I've recently used it a bit more and it's getting to be more of a pain in the .

Fragment Cannons make sense, I can keep relatively close - < 1 km usually, typically around 600-700m. Is that close enough for Frag Cannons?

And I was looking at the Vulture - are 2 Large Hardpoints really better than 2 Med + 2 Small? And what would be better, 2 Kinetic, 2 Thermal, or 1 of each? Just seems like it might take a little longer to kill ships, but then again I assume the Class 3 Weapons would have an easier time against Pythons/Anacondas. I'll look for a Vulture fit on here and see what I come up with, it'll probably be the next ship I grab (Might take a while tho, I'm only getting about 100k/hour of BHing currently).

 

[Ceekay]

I haven't tried frag cannons (not enough ammo for me) but I think you need to be around 200 m or less from the target for best results, here's a link to some vids (FDL with 4 x class 2 FC)

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141660&page=48

The Vultures class 3 weapons do over 50% more damage than the equivalent class 2 and they're more effective against larger ships as well, the only downside of the Vulture is it's lack of power, this limits the weapon/shield/thruster options severely so basically power hungry weapons like beams will mean lighter shields and less powerful thrusters, here's a starter build with fixed pulses swop for gimballed if you want but the Vulture has superb agility and works great with fixed.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/0...0301242h.AwRj4zyA.IwBj4yVI?bn=Vulture current

edit; just been in game and been fraged on by an Anaconda , seriously though it is a really close range weapon as the dispersion is huge, at 800m I was getting light shield damage at 1000m practically nothing so 200 - 300m is probably the most effective range.

 

[Rocky-451]

Haven't flown a Viper for a long time, but as a test I bought one and upgraded it to this build. The Viper is a small and fairly agile ship, and it shouldn't use turreted weapons which have low DPS and are best suited for large ships with poor turn rates. The gimballed weapons here are pretty standard but effective, I think. To conserve ammo for RES farming, use the lasers against shields and a combination of lasers and multi-cannons against hull. For my test, I did a few half-hour sessions in a HI RES. Unfortunately the Viper is too weak to fight alone against the big ships, but in a small-ships spawn, I earned about 650,000 CR per half-hour.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

(One last question - I've heard a lot that Burst/Pulse Lasers > Beam, but why? They seem to shoot a lot slower, and I don't mind the added Weapon PIP needed to get the enemy Shields down quick enough.)

Okay, so really, pulse is there for people who are too lazy to make a decision. The real question is between beam and burst.

Beams need 100% of a second on target to do their full damage per second. Unless you're attacking a slow ship that dwarfs you, it's unrealistic you'll have 100% of your time on target.
Bursts need only a fraction of a second on target to do their full damage per second. So you can just tap the fire button whenever you're on target. When you're not on target, you're not losing as much potential damage as you would be with beams.

Regarding your VIII build,
First, if you're not needing the KWS, grab another chaff launcher. A booster will not help you.

Second, I highly recommend bi-weaves, as you'll be losing weight and gaining power, and only losing 30MJs of shielding.

Third, I would never recommend fixed velocity weapons for anyone, doesn't matter how good they think they are at aiming. You gain a lot more than just accuracy when you used gimballed or turreted. You gain the ability to be able to shoot in a direction other than the one you're flying in. With hit scan weapons, it's not so bad because you can use your lateral thrusters to do complex movements. But with velocity weapons, you really need to aim far ahead of your target and this will really put a hurt on the kinds of defensive maneuvers you can pull.

Fourth, I don't think you need an A grade life support on a VIII. Pick up the distributor. Distributors are cheap and will improve many aspects of your ship. Also, get those thrusters A grade sooner rather than later.

Fifth, a VIII's speed is its trademark. Consider pulling the big heavy hull reinforcement off and taking another SCB or an AFMU. With bi-weaves, your shields come back in seconds. With a VIII, you can get away from most anything when you want to. It just makes sense.

Sixth, I'd highly recommend frags. Considering the VIII's inability to carry a lot of SCBs or HRPs, you need that really solid TTK else you'll find yourself in losing a battle of attrition. Go for the big game. Don't be afraid to chaff blanket, get liberal with the application of frags, and pop SCBs like prom dates. Make sure you're in a system where your prey is not far from a supply station.

 

[SoupOrJuice]

K couple things I want to explain/questions I want to ask now. First, I use Fixed because when I was using Gimballed I was constantly running into NPCs that would Chaff all the time basically negating all my damage. I kill things fairly quickly while BHing with my fixed Minis. So unless there's some way to negate the effect that Chaff has on Gimballed, I just stick with Fixed. Also, I was told Fixed does more damage than Gimballed, period? Is this true?

Lastly, I'm not sure I know what an AFMU is, what "frags" are (fragment cannons? covered this already, no way I'm staying < 500m away from a ship for any length of time), or what "TTK" is.

Also, what is a "HI" RES? I rarely ever see RES's as it is (only ever found one and I don't even remember what system it was) so didn't know there were different types?

 

[Ceekay]

Much as I like the Viper it's not the most agile ship and I find that using fixed weapons is a lot of work, the only ships I fit them to are the Vulture, Asp scout and the FAS (I'll probably check the FDL sometime as the agility tweaks may have made it viable with fixed).

True fixed weapons are immune to chaff but most ships run into weapon capacitor (power dist) power limitations so I use the chaff as a pause to let it charge or you could deselect the target and aim manually (turn gimbals into fixed) but it'll only work successfully with lasers.

Yes you're right fixed do deliver more damage than gimballed but only when they hit and for me I need to be flying an agile ship to make it work, turrets are surprisingly effective because despite the reduced damage per second (DPS) they're landing a lot more hits that's why I use the small pulse turrets on my Viper.

The AMFU is auto field maintenance unit basically it can repair damaged modules (but not hull) it consumes quite a bit of power and it needs ammo, I believe it only works in normal space so you need to drop out of FSD to use it as it shut down each module for repair, serious explorers fit two so they can repair the other AMFU.

Yeah Frags refer to fragment cannons, I'd guess the TTK is "time to kill" i.e. drop the target's shields get close and destroy it before it can wear down your shields and take you out, frags appear to have 3x the DPS of a pulse laser so they can be devastating if used correctly.

There are four types of RES currently low, standard, high and hazardous (HazRES) I believe the low to high refers to the level of mining activity but more mining means more pirates so.., the HazRES is essentially a high RES with no security/police ships and bounties can be 200k or higher, probably doable in a Viper if you pick your targets carefully and know when to run! but I'D suggest at least a Vulture or preferably a heavily armoured FAS.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

True fixed weapons are immune to chaff but most ships run into weapon capacitor (power dist) power limitations so I use the chaff as a pause to let it charge or you could deselect the target and aim manually (turn gimbals into fixed) but it'll only work successfully with lasers.

This is very true. There aren't a lot of uncompromising fixed laser options for small fighters that don't bottom out the distributor a few times in a fight, so it's not like you're losing a lot of time in most cases. There's a good chance the amount of WEP you're turning into damage per unit of time won't change a whole lot. Worse comes to worst, you can untarget and just fire the gimbals as fixed.

 

[SoupOrJuice]

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the help - I learned a lot from this thread This my current Viper build, minus the Turreted Burst Lasers which I will be grabbing on my next run. Lmk if turreted isn't worth, fixed is working fine for now but just curious. Gimballed Multi-cannons are working fantastically, I was able to kill a Python, Anaconda, and even a FAS solo (the FAS was pretty difficult, dropped me to 40% hull all on its own - although that was before I had the Military Grade hull and Shield Boosters). I'll be testing the Frag Cannons with this build when I have the cash - had to drop the Shield Booster to C because of power draw, everything else is pretty much the same, beam lasers because I forgot to change it to burst before linking lol. (Burst Lasers are fantastic as well, again thanks for the tip!)

I've chosen to go with Shield Boosters against Psycho's tip mostly because A) I was running out of Multi-Cannon ammo before I was running out of Chaff and B) There's no other Utility that I want. Also didn't drop the HRPs because I don't have enough power for another SCB or AFMU, the 3A SCB is pretty power-hungry and tops me up from almost-empty even with the Booster so it's working pretty well currently, and honestly I only lose about 3 m/s top-speed with the HRP weights.

All in all I really like the Viper, it's maneuverable enough to keep the bigger ships in your sights and still avoid most of the damage, but powerful enough to take them out quickly (even with MCs). Bi-weave suits it nicely for a hit & run tactic (do as much damage as fast as you can, then run away while your shields recharge - rinse and repeat).

Thanks again guys, and happy hunting!! (Also, any small improvements on my latest build - either the MC one or the FC one - are still welcome

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I've chosen to go with Shield Boosters against Psycho's tip mostly because A) I was running out of Multi-Cannon ammo before I was running out of Chaff

*cringe*
.
The idea of two chaff launchers is that you can fire one while the other is reloading. Two chaff launchers give you 200 seconds of invulnerability, practically.

 

[SoupOrJuice]

*cringe*
.
The idea of two chaff launchers is that you can fire one while the other is reloading. Two chaff launchers give you 200 seconds of invulnerability, practically.

Ah, good to know. Still gonna keep the Shield Booster on my Multi-Cannons - it's fairly easy to stay far enough away that 100% up-time on Chaff isn't required. Although when I test out Frags I'll be sure to use 2 Chaffs instead, that actually gives enough power to use Gimballed Frags instead of Fixed. Thanks for the tip! (I honestly thought that having two chaff launchers was odd, figured that using one then the other would be classified as an abuse case and wouldn't be allowed - I was wrong.

Although I might in the future replace my 1D HRP with an AFMU and replace the Booster with a Chaff (on my MC build) I don't really see the need for an AFMU currently.

EDIT: In case anyone sees this thread later, I tried out the Frag Cannons. While good against Pythons and Anaconda's, they're useless against pretty much every other ship - you can't really stay close enough to any other ship (Cobra, Viper, Sidewinder/Eagle, Imperial Eagle/Courier, even the FAS and Asp/Diamondback variants) to fire off more than 1 volley (3 shots) before they speed away. Needing to be < 200m away from a ship to do nominal damage with each shot is very cumbersome. Multi-Cannons are just much more reliable, and do greater damage over time as a result (keeping the aforementioned ships in your sights at less than roughly 850m is extremely easy and gimbals have what seems to be an 80% accuracy at that range - more than enough to out-damage the Frags over time).

Turreted Burst Lasers on the other hand are much closer to their Fixed counter-parts. The addition of being able to fire even if the adversary isn't on screen is very useful, but if you're up against a target that can Chaff consistently, the added time on target vs time away from target due to Chaff might even out - I'd have to further test to confirm. For now I'm keeping the Turreted version because the station in Kremainn doesn't offer Fixed lol.