Why not add extend the "No Loitering" to outside the station?

Just a thought - what if the "No Loitering" rule that applies to inside the station was extended outside the station, say to the extent of the "No Fire" zone?

As I envision it, you would need to request docking clearance before entering the NFZone, or else you would get the same reaction as if you'd flown into the station without clearance. As I do this on a semi-regular basis, this would be a welcome warning, as it would be easier to get out of the NFZone than it is to get out of the station!

The "No Fire" zone seems to extend about 4km from the station, although I recognize the possibility that this is different for each station. It certainly feels like it at times, at least. But presuming that 4km is mostly accurate, that would give pilots about 3.5 km of leeway between when they are able to request docking, and when they would have to.

2 other ideas that are related. One is to introduce some coding to the station's granting of clearance that would limit the number of times one could request docking clearance, in order to prevent one from simply moving outside the zone every 10 minutes and resetting their "free loitering" clock. The other is to rename the "No Fire" zone to "Restricted Airspace" to encompass the restrictions on firing, speeding, and loitering.

Not that I have any problem with the speed limit - I will use boost in and out of the station if a situation calls for it.

The only gameplay that I've engaged in that might be affected by this is the following:

1. Hanging around outside the station scanning ships looking for good bounties.
2. Hanging around outside the station to pickup the cargo that NPCs occasionally drop when destroyed by the security forces.

In both cases, I can do the same thing 4km away - even with D rated sensors, although I would have to move closer use my KWS on suspected pirates that are clean in the current system.

However, I freely admit that there may be other ways to play the game than the ones that I engage in. I'm looking forward to other people posting how this would affect their gameplay... especially rammers who are willing to admit it :D
 
i somehow like the idea, but there is a problem:

- the NFZ differs from 4 km to 10 km (10 km in systems with a civil war going on, where the station owning faction is part off - or so i think, needs testing). at least there are NFZ of 10 km. you can#t request docking from that distance.
 
i somehow like the idea, but there is a problem:

- the NFZ differs from 4 km to 10 km (10 km in systems with a civil war going on, where the station owning faction is part off - or so i think, needs testing). at least there are NFZ of 10 km. you can#t request docking from that distance.


First, a timer of say 2 mins-3 mins is enough to close the distance down.

Second, I didn't know the differences, maybe loitering could be triggered if you aren't going 75% of your ship speed, or 50%.
 
First, a timer of say 2 mins-3 mins is enough to close the distance down.

Second, I didn't know the differences, maybe loitering could be triggered if you aren't going 75% of your ship speed, or 50%.

So if you take a little too long to dock you get shot at?
No thanks. We already have enough useless restrictions, such as arbitrarily low speed limits, near space stations.
What exactly is the harm of me being within 5km or so of a station without docking?
 
It makes the game immerse. Government doesn't need an excuse to fine you. You are loitering without doing any harm? Well that is a perfectly good reason to get some extra income for the local budget.

Although true, maybe 5 minutes would be best. IF someone takes more than 5 to dock is a bit weird. Point is the idea is sound, government will fine you for the air you breath given the chance, loitering is an excellent idea to give the game extra flavor.
 
i somehow like the idea, but there is a problem:

- the NFZ differs from 4 km to 10 km (10 km in systems with a civil war going on, where the station owning faction is part off - or so i think, needs testing). at least there are NFZ of 10 km. you can#t request docking from that distance.


thats not a problem, its incumbent on the pilot to know that they are in a system in civil war - the station may warn them, but the onus is, and always should be on the CMDR
 
i somehow like the idea, but there is a problem:

- the NFZ differs from 4 km to 10 km (10 km in systems with a civil war going on, where the station owning faction is part off - or so i think, needs testing). at least there are NFZ of 10 km. you can#t request docking from that distance.

That makes sense - I knew I had seen different sizes of the NFZ, but didn't realize it was tied to civil wars.

I guess my question would be why do we need enlarged NFZs during a civil war? I could accept the immersion argument, I guess, although I would find the "no loitering around the station" to be more immersive (personally).

thats not a problem, its incumbent on the pilot to know that they are in a system in civil war - the station may warn them, but the onus is, and always should be on the CMDR

Just a problem in that you can't request docking until you close to <4km, at which point the request would probably be denied as the station shoots you out of the sky.
 
So if you take a little too long to dock you get shot at?
No thanks. We already have enough useless restrictions, such as arbitrarily low speed limits, near space stations.
What exactly is the harm of me being within 5km or so of a station without docking?

My original thought was that the time limit to dock would be unchanged - would still get 10 minutes from the time you were granted clearance. The only change that you would see would be if you were a habbitual docker (docking at the same station multiple times in an instance).

As I said before, I don't mind the speed limit... but if the speed limit was only put in place to reduce ramming, I kinda thought this system could replace it. At least if it works - I'm sure nothing would stop people from trying to grief, but I kinda think this would be a superior replacement.

No harm, unless the only reason you're hanging around is to ram/suicide other players to death. However, my main reason for this suggestion is to increase immersion. It just seems strange that the station doesn't care about ships hanging around the entrance for an unlimited period of time.
 

Lestat

Banned
I think this idea bad. Because people want to talk to each other. They need a be in a No Fire zone. So they don't get hurt.
 
I think this idea bad. Because people want to talk to each other. They need a be in a No Fire zone. So they don't get hurt.

Perfect example of a gameplay that I don't engage in :D

At one point, I turned off public chat as I was getting annoyed with the constant stream of public talk while sitting in the station. Boy, was that a bad idea...

Do people really sit in the No Fire zone to chat? I always presumed that (like me) they were docked and truly safe.
 
Do people really sit in the No Fire zone to chat? I always presumed that (like me) they were docked and truly safe.
Can't see someone's ship as well if everyone's docked.

Personally I think the area around a station should be abuzz. Like a large courtyard of a mall.
 
Can't see someone's ship as well if everyone's docked.

Personally I think the area around a station should be abuzz. Like a large courtyard of a mall.


I'd be in favor of that, but I don't think the console or many people's PC could handle having a few dozen ships in sight making the station feel alive. ASide from that, fine yo butt for loitering. At least that would explain why it ISN'T lively and populated :p
 
It makes the game immerse. Government doesn't need an excuse to fine you. You are loitering without doing any harm? Well that is a perfectly good reason to get some extra income for the local budget.

Although true, maybe 5 minutes would be best. IF someone takes more than 5 to dock is a bit weird. Point is the idea is sound, government will fine you for the air you breath given the chance, loitering is an excellent idea to give the game extra flavor.

You are ignoring the fact that we are given 10 minutes to dock when requesting docking permission.
 
My original thought was that the time limit to dock would be unchanged - would still get 10 minutes from the time you were granted clearance. The only change that you would see would be if you were a habbitual docker (docking at the same station multiple times in an instance).

As I said before, I don't mind the speed limit... but if the speed limit was only put in place to reduce ramming, I kinda thought this system could replace it. At least if it works - I'm sure nothing would stop people from trying to grief, but I kinda think this would be a superior replacement.

No harm, unless the only reason you're hanging around is to ram/suicide other players to death. However, my main reason for this suggestion is to increase immersion. It just seems strange that the station doesn't care about ships hanging around the entrance for an unlimited period of time.

Why would the station care if you are hanging around the no fire zone for a long time? I dont see what the harm is. The suicide rammers are not a serious problem so if that is the only reason for your suggestion then it is overkill IMO. We already have the silly speed limit to deal with suicide rammers anyway.
I just dont like restrictions on what I can and can not do. So if you are going to come up with a new restriction there needs to be a very good reason as to why it is necessary.

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I'd be in favor of that, but I don't think the console or many people's PC could handle having a few dozen ships in sight making the station feel alive. ASide from that, fine yo butt for loitering. At least that would explain why it ISN'T lively and populated :p

Just go into any combat zone and you already have 2 dozen or so ships in there that everyone's PC and console handles without a problem. The number of ships by itself will not be an issue and we are limited to 32 players in an instance anyway.
 
Why would the station care if you are hanging around the no fire zone for a long time? I dont see what the harm is. The suicide rammers are not a serious problem so if that is the only reason for your suggestion then it is overkill IMO...

For the same reason they care if you are hanging around inside the station? You're right, I haven't seen any harm in folks loitering in the NFZ, but this isn't about fixing a problem, it's about increasing immersion - for me, at least. If it just so happens to be a better solution than the "No Speeding", groovy.


I just dont like restrictions on what I can and can not do.
...

I'm the same way - not looking to add additional restrictions as much as modifying an existing restriction to make more sense.

Just out of curiosity, what part of your playstyle would a change like this affect? Do you routinely hang out in the NFZ, or dock and undock multiple times in the same instance? I truly am interested in hearing how this could affect other playstyles.
 
For the same reason they care if you are hanging around inside the station? You're right, I haven't seen any harm in folks loitering in the NFZ, but this isn't about fixing a problem, it's about increasing immersion - for me, at least. If it just so happens to be a better solution than the "No Speeding", groovy.

If a player is hanging around inside a station then he/she is blocking legitimate traffic so I understand that this is a concern that does need to be addressed, especially given that in other MMOs some players like to grief by blocking certain NPCs.





I'm the same way - not looking to add additional restrictions as much as modifying an existing restriction to make more sense.

Just out of curiosity, what part of your playstyle would a change like this affect? Do you routinely hang out in the NFZ, or dock and undock multiple times in the same instance? I truly am interested in hearing how this could affect other playstyles.

I misunderstood your intent then, because I was under the impression that you wanted this change in addition to the speed limits. As an alternative to speed limits, I would not mind FD trying it in beta and seeing how it works out.
I hang around the station sometimes when I am testing new loadouts, but it is outside the NFZ for the most part. As long as I can keep on doing that, I am ok.
I would say that giving someone 10 minutes, like the docking limit, is reasonable simply because when I first started playing elite those Coriolis type stations used to drive me nuts. I could never find the entrance. Now I have it all figured out and it is no longer a problem, but I just would not want to see new players getting blasted because of navigational diffuclties.
I do have to add that I did have some fun with the suicide rammers. Viper ramming a Combat Conda? LOL.
 
immersion
lol


Just out of curiosity, what part of your playstyle would a change like this affect? Do you routinely hang out in the NFZ, or dock and undock multiple times in the same instance? I truly am interested in hearing how this could affect other playstyles.
How it affects other playstyles is largely irrelevant. Most people would probably be unaffected. This is largely irrelevant. With the implementation of speeding, lots of people were affected. This is also largely irrelevant.

What matters is how it makes sense within the game world. I don't think loitering in the no fire zone aligns with the rest of the ED galaxy. Unless a station is locked down, I see no reason why it wouldn't welcome activity.
 
If a player is hanging around inside a station then he/she is blocking legitimate traffic so I understand that this is a concern that does need to be addressed, especially given that in other MMOs some players like to grief by blocking certain NPCs.







I misunderstood your intent then, because I was under the impression that you wanted this change in addition to the speed limits. As an alternative to speed limits, I would not mind FD trying it in beta and seeing how it works out.
I hang around the station sometimes when I am testing new loadouts, but it is outside the NFZ for the most part. As long as I can keep on doing that, I am ok.
I would say that giving someone 10 minutes, like the docking limit, is reasonable simply because when I first started playing elite those Coriolis type stations used to drive me nuts. I could never find the entrance. Now I have it all figured out and it is no longer a problem, but I just would not want to see new players getting blasted because of navigational diffuclties.
I do have to add that I did have some fun with the suicide rammers. Viper ramming a Combat Conda? LOL.


The higher rank,the less time you have to dock? Would seem odd, more a punishment than a reward for being a good trader.

Maybe give individuals a 1-2 grace period. Standard docking would be 5 minutes, but during the first 1-2 weeks of someone playing it is 10 minutes.
 
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