Asp here asp there asp for everything. Jump range numbers needs a buff all together.

[Maro-Val]

I don't think you get why people are responding to you

Oh believe me i know very well why i get the negative (from my point of view) to my suggestion responses. Because most of the people are "afraid" that the slightest change, will have a massive affect to the way they function and are use to. It was always that way. They prefer that, even if they lose the possibility to have something better.

It's not: you're wrong, and let me explain why I am right.
It's: Odd you feel that way, I have a different take on the matter, let me tell you what mine is.

So, there's no need to become defensive. You feel the way about jumpranges the way you feel about jumpranges ... but! There's always new insights, there's always hearing a different perspective that might work for you as well. It's not you, who want longer jump ranges against those who don't. Just exchanging points of view. You cannot be wrong about how you feel, neither can I or anyone else, so in that sense everyone here is right.

The reason I was arguing was not to prove I'm right, but trying to persuade you to a different point of view. One that would make you less worried about ranges so you'd enjoy flying the variety of ships more often. And I realize I'm not likely to convince you, but it doesn't hurt to try, right?

Agree to almost everything but.. from the beggining of this thread i am asked things like:

- Why can't you see that using asp is not so bad?
- You are approaching things from the wrong angle.
- Have you been to Sag A*?
- Did you ever fly an Annaconda?
- Did you know how the original Elite was?
- Why dont you..???

Is this thread a contest of who has done the most things in the series of Elite?

You are trying to persuade me (not only you) that a game model that i have used for many many hours is fine. I know this model, i' ve seen it, i' ve use it over and over again and i strongly believe that it gets much better easily.

Can we now move on and see if it gets any better?

 

[Kancro Vantas]

You realize that this is a forum, an internet one, and that people criticizing your idea have nothing personal towards you?
You are entitled to your ideas and everyone around here is, but when you put it out there with the intent of people to support it or to antagonize it, is for the sake of debate. Nothing else, my friend.

You said that there is a problem here with the FSD and that it should be solved by increasing jump range in all the ships.

Some of us think there is no problem and hence no need to change it.

We tried to give you another perspective so you could see why it isn't a problem. You decided to get offended.

You probably wanted support, and I don't doubt you could have lots of it. To be perfectly honest, it wouldn't hurt me or bother me if they increase the jump range. It really doesn't. More so, it won't matter for most of us here.

But yes, you are right, they all need to be buffed! It's been clearly a problem for us to go around and to the other side of the Galaxy...or to move in the bubble.. or to trade rares... it's been really a pain and FD should change it! I hope the mods doesn't move this thread to the thousands of other threads created on this subject here in the exploration forum, and they finally hear what most players want!

 

[Maro-Val]

You realize that this is a forum, an internet one, and that people criticizing your idea have nothing personal towards you?
You are entitled to your ideas and everyone around here is, but when you put it out there with the intent of people to support it or to antagonize it, is for the sake of debate. Nothing else, my friend.
Yes i realize. Just i think there wasn't much of criticizing of my idea. Mostly negative posts with good intention , so i can leave the path of the dark side of my idea and embrace the perfection of the existing mechanics.

You said that there is a problem here with the FSD and that it should be solved by increasing jump range in all the ships.
Yes maybe it is not THE solution but IMO it is near. Now that some people in here says that it is fine the way it is, i' ll consider it ever more.

Some of us think there is no problem and hence no need to change it.
I've said it before. No problem with me i can live with it. Do you think there is a way out there, to make things better for everyone on the jump range matter? Apparently not.

We tried to give you another perspective so you could see why it isn't a problem. You decided to get offended.
The prespective you gave is the one i use every single day in game. It's fine, it's working. How about the prespective that i introduced in the first post?
Really, there isn't a way for you or anyone else to offend me through the monitor. I believe you said i am offended because of my previous post right? It was written in that way because i was asked why i am so defensive and i think you misunderstood my mood. I just changed my writing style for a moment.

You probably wanted support, and I don't doubt you could have lots of it. To be perfectly honest, it wouldn't hurt me or bother me if they increase the jump range. It really doesn't. More so, it won't matter for most of us here.
Yes of course i need support but only if i am right. If that's the case, then if the idea is supported then we have a chance for our voice to be heard and make it happen. So far it seems it was a bad idea, i admit.

The problem with you specific was IMO, that from the beggining, you thought that i had a problem with the asp for being such an excellent ship, for so many roles. Well asp was never the problem. So read again the first post of the thread and then read your first reply on the thread. Please do that.

But yes, you are right, they all need to be buffed! It's been clearly a problem for us to go around and to the other side of the Galaxy...or to move in the bubble.. or to trade rares... it's been really a pain and FD should change it! I hope the mods doesn't move this thread to the thousands of other threads created on this subject here in the exploration forum, and they finally hear what most players want!

Just a sidenote because exploring is mentioned very often. I think exploring is at a very good level the way it is. I am aware that with my suggestion, on a first thought, it will affect massively the character of exploring because people could have the ability to get to the core or to the other side very fast and with small ships. That's not a good idea (although i wouldn't mind) because indeed it would change the character of exploration. I am sure that there is a solution. A quick one is that, the further you go from the center of the bubble the smaller your jump range is getting for some reason (its a game we or the devs can invent a reason easily). The benefits are massive. You gain the ability to move around the bubble faster IF you want, and you can use a bigger variety of ships for a bigger variety of activities. No need to have in the game all those ships and use them mostly in your neighborhood because the asp is faster (for those like me that think that way). You don't want to move fast and instead you want smaller jumps? Get that slider down. You want to use the asp for everything? Be my guest.

 

[shreddog]

I for one would love to see the maximum range of ships to be made better, the reason being
I am already in my seventies!! I want to see the whole Milky Way Galaxy before I join the stars in the sky,
these short ranges are just a shackle holding me back.

I'm sorry but even with 70.000 LY jumprange, the ability to jump to any star you wanted, you still wouldn't be able to see the whole galaxy. Unless you plan on becoming 1 million years old. It would take roughly that long if you spent 1 minute in each system and was playing elite 24 hours a day. Maybe you knew that already, but I had to do that calculation 3 times to make sure. Not sure yet though, the number seems insane, and my maths are horrible
But maybe you just want to go to Beagle point, and as someone mentioned earlier it's quite feasible in a month time with a good range ship.

 

[iain666]

Nah, at a minute each it'd only take you 760,000 years to visit 400 billion systems, that's a good 240,000 off a full million

 

[shreddog]

pff a quarter milion off, minor detail I say..

 

[Neutronium]

Just a sidenote because exploring is mentioned very often. I think exploring is at a very good level the way it is. I am aware that with my suggestion, on a first thought, it will affect massively the character of exploring because people could have the ability to get to the core or to the other side very fast and with small ships. That's not a good idea (although i wouldn't mind) because indeed it would change the character of exploration. I am sure that there is a solution. A quick one is that, the further you go from the center of the bubble the smaller your jump range is getting for some reason (its a game we or the devs can invent a reason easily). The benefits are massive. You gain the ability to move around the bubble faster IF you want, and you can use a bigger variety of ships for a bigger variety of activities. No need to have in the game all those ships and use them mostly in your neighborhood because the asp is faster (for those like me that think that way). You don't want to move fast and instead you want smaller jumps? Get that slider down. You want to use the asp for everything? Be my guest.

That reason better be a realistic one. One that I thought of is that as you move out of the bubble, your FSD gets wear&tear so your jumprange decreases (linearly, exponentially?, reverse exponentially? - I honestly don't know since my math skills are horrible as well ). Obviously this would also apply within the bubble but since you can dock to space stations you could fix this FSD wear&tear effect*. Now the fine-tuning of this wear&tear is a matter of its own and I am sure will create hundreds of new forum topics and nerf/buff debates ...

* Obviously one could argue that with AFMU you could fix FSD wear&Tear as well - see where this goes ?

 

[Maro-Val]

That reason better be a realistic one. One that I thought of is that as you move out of the bubble, your FSD gets wear&tear so your jumprange decreases (linearly, exponentially?, reverse exponentially? - I honestly don't know since my math skills are horrible as well ). Obviously this would also apply within the bubble but since you can dock to space stations you could fix this FSD wear&tear effect*. Now the fine-tuning of this wear&tear is a matter of its own and I am sure will create hundreds of new forum topics and nerf/buff debates ...

* Obviously one could argue that with AFMU you could fix FSD wear&Tear as well - see where this goes ?

Yes a nice idea the wear and tear and have been mentioned again in the forums. The reason should be realistic yes. More realistic than loading 400 tones of cargo with one click

Another good reason is that for our FSD to calculate the route should be more time consuming when being out in the unexplored area because of the lacking of data it has, or able to plot smaller jumps because of the same reason. Realistic enough for me.


I have another idea but i assume i will be killed for that but thats ok.

I believe that all the ships should get a buff on their jump ranges by a generous percentage, except maybe the very small ships of the game, and make traveling faster everywhere. Heck even reduce the friendship loadind time if thats doable (maybe its not because we dont know exactly what the game loads at that time other than instance). Going to the core or wherever you want on the galaxy, should be much faster in terms of time needed in that way BUT.. The big BUT goes that exploration has to be more difficult. Dangerous places have to be added (thargoids?) maybe crashing to asteroids or wreckages when exiting SC leaving you with 5% hull, ships should be able to repair the major damages but that should take hours or days of waiting . Losing your ship and dying should be difficult also. Mostly major damages and stuck in the same place for 4 hours or 2 days waiting for repairs to be over by your repair unit or your crew!. Of course while waiting there should be some small but time passing stuff to do, like undocking your smaller ship from underneath and going around.

i have been to the core myself and i think it was fairly easy (another reason to kill me). If you are carefull and not doing others thing (watching youtube) to pass your time while jumping then your major difficulty is time. Mainly only patience is needed not much more, assuming it is not your first big trip and your ship has all the neccessary modules. Thats only my opinion and i dont consider myself a big explorer like others. That was my biggest trip.

The main thing that is missing from exploration, is interesting stuff to discover. Yes the graphics and all that is most of the time breathtaking if your have a good rig but exploring needs more and thats not a complaint just a statement. I am sure dev team have big ideas for us, we just have to wait.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So I don't think it's a bad idea, I'm just afraid of the slightest change.

So much for an honest conversation. Have fun

 

[Maro-Val]

So I don't think it's a bad idea, I'm just afraid of the slightest change.

So much for an honest conversation. Have fun

I am trying to be honest. That's my opinion that you (not only you) don't like changes but maybe i am wrong. You are the only one that doesn't want larger jump ranges but gave a reason why the idea was bad. I responded that it is fixed easily and i still believe there is room to make things better. Honestly do you believe that finding a solution for some ships not to reach some destinations, is difficult? From developers side maybe it is, i dont know.

 

[Maro-Val]

Well as it seems, with the horizons update we will at least have FSD BOOST! 60's and 70' on our FSD will soon be doable. It was about time to make the first step to get bigger jump ranges in the future. Let's hope we can use that feature often and they won't make so hard to collect materials. It's a start!

https://youtu.be/2VEsubEyJXw?t=201

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=200553

 

[qwerty yotta]

My first post (I think)!

Playing E : D feels like a chore for me more than it should, and travelling is the main reason.

I've recently tried to hook up a friend (who's generally a fan of flight & space sims, has a flight stick, etc.) - he spent few days playing on my account and decided that it's too time consuming and said that given his limited time he might have another look after he finishes Fallout4 (which I know will be in a year, if ever ).

Now as much as I'd like to have few more jump LY on my ships, I agree that any such change would probably break the game mechanics, which feel balanced so far - but there's other things that could be done to accommodate those of us with families and/or work/studies/etc. who have limited time to enjoy the game and like wandering around the universe.

Hyperspace sequence could be a lot shorter as it serves no gameplay purpose (although I suspect it does serve a technical purpose when switching between servers/peers/whatever-it-does) - yes it is cool the first 5 times you see it but then it becomes very annoying. That includes the "3 2 1..." countdown as well.

Perhaps a good solution would be to cut the time it takes to do the whole sequence to only 10-20% of current time after the player experienced their first 10 jumps (maybe gradually) and also allow the player to "enable long FSD sequence" somewhere in the menus if they like it so much.

I suspect it's not that easy if it serves a technical purpose in the background but then this is a solvable technical problem - you could do this processing/instance swapping/techymagic during the FSD charge sequence.

Talking about FSD charge sequence: in the case of hyperspace FSD charging while in supercruse, I guess the only purpose it serves is to leave you open to interdiction. But then if someone interdicts you while charging, at the moment you can still jump if you align movement and direction. How about remove the latter (makes it a bit easier to interdict / harder to avoid interdiction) but cut down the charge sequence for the supercruise.

Then, FSD charge sequence while in normal play: it serves the purpose of not being able to run away from a fight instantly - and it doesn't happen too often so the time it takes it to do it is perfectly fine (plus it's already affected by nearby mass). But if you're leaving a station on your regular travels, there is really no other reason for it other than to increase the risk of scanning. So you could, for example, say that there's an automatic wireless FSD charge assist service at stations, which automatically boosts your charging time to 20% of normal, and lets you start charging at 4km (instead of current 5.5km), but it also scans the ship in the process, so it is disabled if you have illicit cargo and then you have to go beyond 6-7 klicks to be able to start to charge (makes it more fun to avoid scanning). Or something in line of this.

I'm sure supercruise travel itself could be made just a bit faster (or at least more interesting) without breaking gameplay mechanics. Maybe reuse the "boost" mechanics from regular flight mode so that in supercruise it accelerates a lot quicker for a brief period, at a cost of dumping a unit of fuel and risk of overshooting the destination. That's a win-win: optional, costly and risky but fun.

Anyway, that's my 2c - love the game, and can't wait to try out the planetary landings once I get time to play it a bit more!

 

[Pirin]

I am trying to be honest. That's my opinion that you (not only you) don't like changes but maybe i am wrong. You are the only one that doesn't want larger jump ranges but gave a reason why the idea was bad. I responded that it is fixed easily and i still believe there is room to make things better. Honestly do you believe that finding a solution for some ships not to reach some destinations, is difficult? From developers side maybe it is, i dont know.

No, Ziggy is not the only one. Would you like it if they made 5000ly jumps possible? You would be able to cross the entire Galaxy in 5 mins. So, why not?
The problem with the longer jumps is that they make Galaxy smaller. It is not supposed to be small. If it takes huge time, endurance and dedication to cross it - that means working as intended.

I am taking my Python to DW voyage. It has about 25.5ly jump range. More than enough. And recently i travelled 125000ly in a ship with 20ly range. So i dont really understand your complains
No offense intended but if you want to be able to fight, trade and explore with a single ship without changing the internals...this is wrong in so many ways.

 

[askavir]

Jumpranges are highly overrated. Only if you go rimward or other sparse clusters, you're going to need those maxes out ranges.

Anything from 15 Ly and up is good enough to explore around the Bubble, from 20-25 Ly you can go anywhere midrange. Only visiting the core or the other side of the galaxy needs 35-40 Ly ranges if you're not planning months of exploration.

That's untrue.

Going to the core its actually extremely easy, time being the only real impediment... The closest you are to the core, the more dense the starfield gets, and jump range becomes less and less of a problem. On the other hand, I've been to places less than 6k ly out that I would never been able to reach with less than 30ly jumps.

And seriously, jump range is not overrated. If you're going to random locations of course a Vulture would suffice, but if you've set your mind on visiting some far region, you'll definitively appreciate it if it takes 400 jumps to travel to it instead of 1000.

 

[Eldrazzi]

The chore for me is jumping from system to system. That's why I've basically given up on anything but the Asp because I can get to my destination faster. Speed is life. The Asp is speed.

I dunno, I really think the whole FSD model needs a rework. I don't think all ships should get a buff. But it seems odd to me that smaller ships have limited jump range and larger ships have limited jump range. It would make some sense if smaller ships had limited jump range but as ships get bigger so does their FSD (bigger ships get bigger mounts get bigger FSDs) which gives them greater and greater range. That at least would give me a reason to upgrade beyond an Asp. As it is, I'm going to be flying the Asp for the next 9 seasons.

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Necromancy!!!!!
And by fortune someone at FD didn't care or the OP suggestions and all the new ships released don't have larger jumpranges, and no ship agile as the ASP still have a better range.
Injection is a good mechanic becouse it requires mats collection and even if you have 50 LVL3 boost every time you would have to open the map and manual plot and you wouldn't save time.
So the galaxy is quite small, but they didn't make it smaller, yay!

 

[znôrt]

Well I love the asp but enough is enough. I used it after the cobra for some trading to get some money for better ships and a bigger trader. Went for exploring every now and then with the asp. Bought my python for trading to earn credits faster for a combat loadout. Had a feeling for a bigger trip. Back in the asp again and went to the core. Came back and had some combat but then there is the long range missions now that is interesting. Clipper and Anaconda no outposts. Python has the capacity and lands on outposts but jump range for laughs. Courier and fas and vulture the same. So guess what. Back to the asp again. I don't have to remove stuff from the ships for jump range. With the asp click click and ready. All the interesting ships stay in the hangar. I scroll my stored ships and if you want them to be a rated like me you see jump ranges like 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. The asp fits so many roles but I can't stand it anymore. To visit nearby systems asp does it in 2 jumps. Other ships need 4 or 5. If I want to change my home base out of the question. Better to sell everything and fly with the asp to the new system and buy everything back and outfit from the start. We don't need ships naked from weapons and modules or new ships with bigger jump range, we need a major percentage buff to all the ships.

i find that when the audience of a game overwhelmingly perfers the ship that offers to travel in the least amount of jumps, which is actually pretty much inconsequent anywhere in the bubble, this says a lot more about the audience than about the game.

fortunately that's not really true.

 

[Maro-Val]

My first post (I think)!

Playing E : D feels like a chore for me more than it should, and travelling is the main reason.

I've recently tried to hook up a friend (who's generally a fan of flight & space sims, has a flight stick, etc.) - he spent few days playing on my account and decided that it's too time consuming and said that given his limited time he might have another look after he finishes Fallout4 (which I know will be in a year, if ever ).

Now as much as I'd like to have few more jump LY on my ships, I agree that any such change would probably break the game mechanics, which feel balanced so far - but there's other things that could be done to accommodate those of us with families and/or work/studies/etc. who have limited time to enjoy the game and like wandering around the universe.

Hyperspace sequence could be a lot shorter as it serves no gameplay purpose (although I suspect it does serve a technical purpose when switching between servers/peers/whatever-it-does) - yes it is cool the first 5 times you see it but then it becomes very annoying. That includes the "3 2 1..." countdown as well.

Perhaps a good solution would be to cut the time it takes to do the whole sequence to only 10-20% of current time after the player experienced their first 10 jumps (maybe gradually) and also allow the player to "enable long FSD sequence" somewhere in the menus if they like it so much.

I suspect it's not that easy if it serves a technical purpose in the background but then this is a solvable technical problem - you could do this processing/instance swapping/techymagic during the FSD charge sequence.

Talking about FSD charge sequence: in the case of hyperspace FSD charging while in supercruse, I guess the only purpose it serves is to leave you open to interdiction. But then if someone interdicts you while charging, at the moment you can still jump if you align movement and direction. How about remove the latter (makes it a bit easier to interdict / harder to avoid interdiction) but cut down the charge sequence for the supercruise.

Then, FSD charge sequence while in normal play: it serves the purpose of not being able to run away from a fight instantly - and it doesn't happen too often so the time it takes it to do it is perfectly fine (plus it's already affected by nearby mass). But if you're leaving a station on your regular travels, there is really no other reason for it other than to increase the risk of scanning. So you could, for example, say that there's an automatic wireless FSD charge assist service at stations, which automatically boosts your charging time to 20% of normal, and lets you start charging at 4km (instead of current 5.5km), but it also scans the ship in the process, so it is disabled if you have illicit cargo and then you have to go beyond 6-7 klicks to be able to start to charge (makes it more fun to avoid scanning). Or something in line of this.

I'm sure supercruise travel itself could be made just a bit faster (or at least more interesting) without breaking gameplay mechanics. Maybe reuse the "boost" mechanics from regular flight mode so that in supercruise it accelerates a lot quicker for a brief period, at a cost of dumping a unit of fuel and risk of overshooting the destination. That's a win-win: optional, costly and risky but fun.

Anyway, that's my 2c - love the game, and can't wait to try out the planetary landings once I get time to play it a bit more!

There are many great ideas my friend, including yours, on various threads but i think we have to wait and see, if the devs have something on their list about this matter. They released the Corvette with trully a pathetic jump range, so maybe they like it this way, i don't know.

I also have the same problem with my friends. Two of them tried the game and was very excited, but then found it boring and honestly it was mostly because of the boring waiting moments and jump screens.

After many months of playing, i now have the ships that i want but i really like to travel around and that allways brings me back to the aspX because it moves around fast even with weapons. Moving around in the bubble with other ships is just killing me, but i do it when i have to. I have everything in the hangar and i travel mostly with aspX and DB scout. I have asps and scouts all over the bubble. Oh and i refuse to fly a shieldless and weaponless python with other than A rated stuff, just to be able to save some time on jump screens.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's untrue.

Going to the core its actually extremely easy, time being the only real impediment... The closest you are to the core, the more dense the starfield gets, and jump range becomes less and less of a problem. On the other hand, I've been to places less than 6k ly out that I would never been able to reach with less than 30ly jumps.

Now read the second sentence of my post

And seriously, jump range is not overrated. If you're going to random locations of course a Vulture would suffice, but if you've set your mind on visiting some far region, you'll definitively appreciate it if it takes 400 jumps to travel to it instead of 1000.

And for this I would like to draw your attention to sentence number 3 and 4, and realize we agree with each other.

Sorry about that. I too like disagreements a lot more, but I'm afraid we have to agree to agree

 

[Maro-Val]

No, Ziggy is not the only one. Would you like it if they made 5000ly jumps possible? You would be able to cross the entire Galaxy in 5 mins. So, why not?
The problem with the longer jumps is that they make Galaxy smaller. It is not supposed to be small. If it takes huge time, endurance and dedication to cross it - that means working as intended.

I am taking my Python to DW voyage. It has about 25.5ly jump range. More than enough. And recently i travelled 125000ly in a ship with 20ly range. So i dont really understand your complains
No offense intended but if you want to be able to fight, trade and explore with a single ship without changing the internals...this is wrong in so many ways.

You are the only one that doesn't want larger jump ranges but gave a reason why the idea was bad.

Read the whole sentence please. I meant Ziggy was the only one who doesn't want, BUT gave a real reason about it.

Well my friend no one said that is impossible to cross the galaxy with 20LY range, and i don't want to travel 5000ly at once. I suspect that you haven't gone through this entire thread. You managed to make 25.5ly out of your python, nice. Well mine can only do 16 or something.

At this point (after i saw the jump range of the Corvette), i would be happy if frontier released two more variants with the EXACT SAME internals and characteristics as the aspX. Only changes that i want is the sound and looks. Is that much to ask?