Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[JosiahD]

See? We can be positive! Last two pages have had some GREAT ideas for the crime-and-punishment issue.

Indeed, but the longer Frontier take to actually implement such meaningful consequences.........(shrugs)
.
And, of course, imagine the bleating that will come from at least some of the affected 'criminals' if they suddenly found their freedom of movement affected and they couldn't play the game 'their way'? Oh, the horror.....

 

[Majinvash]

Indeed, but the longer Frontier take to actually implement such meaningful consequences.........(shrugs)
.
And, of course, imagine the bleating that will come from at least some of the affected 'criminals' if they suddenly found their freedom of movement affected and they couldn't play the game 'their way'? Oh, the horror.....

Other than the fact if you know how to fly and have a strong enough shield its impossible to be killed in ED.

I would welcome tough and expensive crime and punishment, Its far to easy at the moment.

But as much as you might think that just putting a huge credit fine into a player if he commits a crime would solve all, it would have to be balanced so that a criminal CAN be a criminal.

This would involve having reasons for traders to go into lawless space.
Different ways to criminals to control their funds.
Bounty hunter tools and tracking
Ways to stop highwake to freedom in 20seconds after interdiction.

You might think its all well and good to have the pilot federation put a fine on you based on what you kill. Lore wise, what would make a criminal pay it?
He is a criminal after all.

If the pilot federation had some magical power to take funds from you because it wants to, wouldn't a pirate hold its funds else where? Ie in a shadow bank.

We are heading dangerously close to content, which I would welcome but you have to think it through and balance it.

I know some of you want a Utopian space, where crime is but an annoyance from NPC's but it has to work both sides.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Leto Thule]

Indeed, but the longer Frontier take to actually implement such meaningful consequences.........(shrugs)
.
And, of course, imagine the bleating that will come from at least some of the affected 'criminals' if they suddenly found their freedom of movement affected and they couldn't play the game 'their way'? Oh, the horror.....

By and large, you will find that is not the case. Kiddies who want to blow up new guys in sidewinders may complain. Players like me, who play the role of the criminal will LOVE the additional content and conflict drivers that this would bring.

 

[Mouse]

Yeah, me too. Currently I am guessing the best way to rid yourself of bounty is to have a buddy explode you in a sidewinder.

Also, Id like to see bounties for notorious pirates posted on the mission boards / news boards / etc. "Last seen in" would be cool too, not sure if its possible, but that would help out bounty hunters find the last station you docked in or something.

Another thing: Maybe make it possible to ADD your own credits to someone elses bounty? But only allow that after being agrressed. That way, if a pirate were to interdict you, you could add whatever amount of credits you like to his ship's bounty, but you couldnt do it to someone who has not performed any offensive actions towards you. Thoughts?

was meant to be shouldn't..


and a lot of times those that are interdicted really can't afford to add credits to a bounty, but I do think that if you get a bounty on you that you should pay at least part of it.

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Other than the fact if you know how to fly and have a strong enough shield its impossible to be killed in ED.

I would welcome tough and expensive crime and punishment, Its far to easy at the moment.

But as much as you might think that just putting a huge credit fine into a player if he commits a crime would solve all, it would have to be balanced so that a criminal CAN be a criminal.

This would involve having reasons for traders to go into lawless space.
Different ways to criminals to control their funds.
Bounty hunter tools and tracking
Ways to stop highwake to freedom in 20seconds after interdiction.

You might think its all well and good to have the pilot federation put a fine on you based on what you kill. Lore wise, what would make a criminal pay it?
He is a criminal after all.

If the pilot federation had some magical power to take funds from you because it wants to, wouldn't a pirate hold its funds else where? Ie in a shadow bank.

We are heading dangerously close to content, which I would welcome but you have to think it through and balance it.

I know some of you want a Utopian space, where crime is but an annoyance from NPC's but it has to work both sides.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Lucrative trade to lawless space and and as to what would make a criminal pay it.. the ability to dock, rearm and such..

 

[JosiahD]

By and large, you will find that is not the case. Kiddies who want to blow up new guys in sidewinders may complain. Players like me, who play the role of the criminal will LOVE the additional content and conflict drivers that this would bring.

That's why I wrote 'some'. There are indeed many who would much prefer to have to play an 'on the run' style of play. Heck, I'd even give it a go myself.....if and when we ever get an additional CMDR slot.

 

[Majinvash]

was meant to be shouldn't..


and a lot of times those that are interdicted really can't afford to add credits to a bounty, but I do think that if you get a bounty on you that you should pay at least part of it.

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Lucrative trade to lawless space and and as to what would make a criminal pay it.. the ability to dock, rearm and such..

Agreed, that is a start.

But it would need to be countered with more lawless space that pirates can safely return to and rearm.

The current mechanic where i can kill you and then dock is a farce but it couldn't be a blanket coverage to ALL ports.

I mean if you wanted to get into real content, you could look at having carrier ships that act as a staging area for pirates.
Allowing more organised criminals to travel away from their home port.

From there you could have missions around hunting down these carriers and destroying them. Forcing pirates to travel distance to find a safe port to rearm.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[JosiahD]

Other than the fact if you know how to fly and have a strong enough shield its impossible to be killed in ED.

I would welcome tough and expensive crime and punishment, Its far to easy at the moment.

But as much as you might think that just putting a huge credit fine into a player if he commits a crime would solve all, it would have to be balanced so that a criminal CAN be a criminal.

This would involve having reasons for traders to go into lawless space.
Different ways to criminals to control their funds.
Bounty hunter tools and tracking
Ways to stop highwake to freedom in 20seconds after interdiction.

You might think its all well and good to have the pilot federation put a fine on you based on what you kill. Lore wise, what would make a criminal pay it?
He is a criminal after all.

If the pilot federation had some magical power to take funds from you because it wants to, wouldn't a pirate hold its funds else where? Ie in a shadow bank.

We are heading dangerously close to content, which I would welcome but you have to think it through and balance it.

I know some of you want a Utopian space, where crime is but an annoyance from NPC's but it has to work both sides.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

It's not often I agree with you (and I hate your 'voice of open' thing), but I agree with you here.....which is why I maintain that fines and bounties don't cut it. From my perspective, a Pilot's Federation rep-based approach needs to impact on freedom of movement by affecting docking options, not simply a fine or bounty. Ideally, I'd like to have a situation where trading into anarchic space is lucrative but highly dangerous for the trader (due to elevated pirate activity, no police/authority response), while piracy in policed space is highly dangerous for the pirate (due to fewer docking options for repair, rearm etc, and elevated police/authority response). A trader should have to PLAN for an excursion into anarchic space, and a pirate should have to PLAN for a foray into policed space. With both having to retreat back to their 'safe havens' to access the full suite of station services. The 'frontier' systems need to feel truly lawless - but as it stands now, even the core systems feel like that in that every system might as well be anarchic under the current punishment approach.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Another thing: Maybe make it possible to ADD your own credits to someone elses bounty? But only allow that after being agrressed. That way, if a pirate were to interdict you, you could add whatever amount of credits you like to his ship's bounty, but you couldnt do it to someone who has not performed any offensive actions towards you. Thoughts?

That's what was discussed in the Criminality final proposal in the DDF. Hasn't been implemented.

Pilot Federation Bounties

• When a member of the Pilot’s Federation is attacked, they have the option of setting a Pilot’s Federation Bounty on their assailant, within a preset min and max credits for this
  • This action is time limited – they forfeit the ability to set a bounty after a set time elapses once they have entered a different session (eg through death or hyperspace)
  • Should their ship be destroyed by the assailant they have a limited amount of time from when their escape pod arrives at a dock to set the bounty
    • Launching from a dock forfeits this ability if not already set
  • The credit value of a bounty must be available in the player’s account, and is immediately deducted.
• A Pilot’s Federation Bounty can only be claimed by any member of the Pilot’s Federation
• The Pilot’s Federation Bounty system does not bypass local laws such as “Unlawful Discharge” that may be active so players need to bear this in mind
• A Pilot’s Federation Bounty is only removed if claimed by a bounty hunter or redeemed by the perpetrator
  • Redemption can only occur after a set significant time period has elapsed (eg 1 calendar week) and the perpetrator makes financial restitution of a significant multiplier of the bounty (eg 10x) to the Pilot’s Federation

 

[Robert Maynard]

Agreed, that is a start.

But it would need to be countered with more lawless space that pirates can safely return to and rearm.

The current mechanic where i can kill you and then dock is a farce but it couldn't be a blanket coverage to ALL ports.

I mean if you wanted to get into real content, you could look at having carrier ships that act as a staging area for pirates.
Allowing more organised criminals to travel away from their home port.

From there you could have missions around hunting down these carriers and destroying them. Forcing pirates to travel distance to find a safe port to rearm.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

One possibility: the Pirate Power could offer to provide sanctuary, materiel, banking facilities, insurance, etc. to pirates - outside the purview of the Pilot's Federation.

Presumably both the Imperial and Federation navies would take great interest in the movements of pirate carriers (multi-crewed, of course) - making their movements a form of gameplay all by itself - scouting and providing defensive capability in the event of an encounter with naval vessels.

 

[Mouse]

Agreed, that is a start.

But it would need to be countered with more lawless space that pirates can safely return to and rearm.

The current mechanic where i can kill you and then dock is a farce but it couldn't be a blanket coverage to ALL ports.

I mean if you wanted to get into real content, you could look at having carrier ships that act as a staging area for pirates.
Allowing more organised criminals to travel away from their home port.

From there you could have missions around hunting down these carriers and destroying them. Forcing pirates to travel distance to find a safe port to rearm.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

If you read what I reposted above I suggest that if you commit crimes in Empire space that the only ports you can't dock in is empire ones. You could still dock in Federal or Alliance space, but in Empire space while you have the bounty on your head the only places you possibly could land at would be an outpost if it was an independent government or had lax security. A you could possibly have contacts in lawless/pirate space where you could pay off bounties with a maybe 5% increase for middleman fees which would allow you free access until you get in trouble again.

I also think that if caught smuggling that it should do the same as well, or at least that system.

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One possibility: the Pirate Power could offer to provide sanctuary, materiel, banking facilities, insurance, etc. to pirates - outside the purview of the Pilot's Federation.

Presumably both the Imperial and Federation navies would take great interest in the movements of pirate carriers (multi-crewed, of course) - making their movements a form of gameplay all by itself - scouting and providing defensive capability in the event of an encounter with naval vessels.

like a 4th aligned "power" ?

 

[Marra Morgan]

One possibility: the Pirate Power could offer to provide sanctuary, materiel, banking facilities, insurance, etc. to pirates - outside the purview of the Pilot's Federation.

I like that.
It would give some incentive for criminal players and groups to play tne BGS, supporting pirate and anarchist factions, overthrowing governments to create safe havens and such!

 

[Futuristic Kung Fu]

I like that.
It would give some incentive for criminal players and groups to play tne BGS, supporting pirate and anarchist factions, overthrowing governments to create safe havens and such!

Like what I and the most feared of all pirates, Julio Montega, are planning in the Psamathe system! We need your help!

 

[Robert Maynard]

like a 4th aligned "power" ?

More like a Power acting as a 4th Major Faction to their members - but also as the Pirates' League - assigning piratical ranks analogous to Pilot's Federation rank with "rules" as to what constitutes increase or decrease in ranks - pirates would (presumably, maybe) have renounced their Pilot's Federation membership after all.

I like that.
It would give some incentive for criminal players and groups to play tne BGS, supporting pirate and anarchist factions, overthrowing governments to create safe havens and such!

Indeed - something for the piratically inclined player who likes to play the BGS.

 

[Roybe]

here's some interesting tidbits from the devs on the BGS!

Crunch away folks...they might even make more...someday!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826&p=3382653&viewfull=1#post3382653

 

[Mouse]

More like a Power acting as a 4th Major Faction to their members - but also as the Pirates' League - assigning piratical ranks analogous to Pilot's Federation rank with "rules" as to what constitutes increase or decrease in ranks - pirates would (presumably, maybe) have renounced their Pilot's Federation membership after all.



Indeed - something for the piratically inclined player who likes to play the BGS.

I should have used the word faction, but I understand what you mean and the pirates league seems like a good idea. Like a space version of "Brethren of the Coast"?

 

[fademist]

here's some interesting tidbits from the devs on the BGS!

Crunch away folks...they might even make more...someday!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826&p=3382653&viewfull=1#post3382653

i think is some stats that u and the others wanted to know for long time now

 

[Neminem]

Agreed, that is a start.

But it would need to be countered with more lawless space that pirates can safely return to and rearm.

The current mechanic where i can kill you and then dock is a farce but it couldn't be a blanket coverage to ALL ports.

I mean if you wanted to get into real content, you could look at having carrier ships that act as a staging area for pirates.
Allowing more organised criminals to travel away from their home port.

From there you could have missions around hunting down these carriers and destroying them. Forcing pirates to travel distance to find a safe port to rearm.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Carrier ships and/or the asteroid bases, that have been in discussion (and some screenshots) iirc. These asteroid bases located in planetary rings of settled or unsettled systems could add some more gameplay as well. Miners or explorers, that stumble upon such an asteroid base could sell the position to the local or faction authorities (if they manage to scan the base and escape the base's defence forces). The factions or local authorities would then launch an attack on the base and bounty hunters or other players could help in this attack. After such an asteroid base is eventually destroyed a new one would be built some time later (in a different planetary ring in the same system or an adjacent system).

Just some rough ideas, that come to my mind...

 

[Mouse]

Carrier ships and/or the asteroid bases, that have been in discussion (and some screenshots) iirc. These asteroid bases located in planetary rings of settled or unsettled systems could add some more gameplay as well. Miners or explorers, that stumble upon such an asteroid base could sell the position to the local or faction authorities (if they manage to scan the base and escape the base's defence forces). The factions or local authorities would then launch an attack on the base and bounty hunters or other players could help in this attack. After such an asteroid base is eventually destroyed a new one would be built some time later (in a different planetary ring in the same system or an adjacent system).

Just some rough ideas, that come to my mind...

Interesting ideas

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

One possibility: the Pirate Power could offer to provide sanctuary, materiel, banking facilities, insurance, etc. to pirates - outside the purview of the Pilot's Federation.…

Nice idea, but why would pirates and other criminals form a power? Everybody would want to be the pirate king and everybody would rob/pirate/kill everybody else - or at least try doing it.

The moment the organization becomes stable enough to offer sanctuary, banking, insurance etc to it's members it would simply become a normal state.

BTW: There is already one power that has the structure and organization of the mafia - an organization similar to the old roman empire. Just saying…

 

[Jockey79]

Other than the fact if you know how to fly and have a strong enough shield its impossible to be killed in ED.

I would welcome tough and expensive crime and punishment, Its far to easy at the moment.

But as much as you might think that just putting a huge credit fine into a player if he commits a crime would solve all, it would have to be balanced so that a criminal CAN be a criminal.

This would involve having reasons for traders to go into lawless space.
Different ways to criminals to control their funds.
Bounty hunter tools and tracking
Ways to stop highwake to freedom in 20seconds after interdiction.

You might think its all well and good to have the pilot federation put a fine on you based on what you kill. Lore wise, what would make a criminal pay it?
He is a criminal after all.

If the pilot federation had some magical power to take funds from you because it wants to, wouldn't a pirate hold its funds else where? Ie in a shadow bank.

We are heading dangerously close to content, which I would welcome but you have to think it through and balance it.

I know some of you want a Utopian space, where crime is but an annoyance from NPC's but it has to work both sides.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Agreed, that is a start.

But it would need to be countered with more lawless space that pirates can safely return to and rearm.

The current mechanic where i can kill you and then dock is a farce but it couldn't be a blanket coverage to ALL ports.

I mean if you wanted to get into real content, you could look at having carrier ships that act as a staging area for pirates.
Allowing more organised criminals to travel away from their home port.

From there you could have missions around hunting down these carriers and destroying them. Forcing pirates to travel distance to find a safe port to rearm.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Alas cannot rep twice, but some good stuff there.
I like that carrier idea, that could be a great laugh.

And yes, it would need to be balanced for all modes.
Pirate space in any mode should be a massive risk. While the heart of the 3 major factions should be fairly safe.

It would also give a reason to use the map filters, I don't think I've taken mine of the scoop-able stars list for over 6 months.