Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes':
This thread is for discussing issues around the Solo, Open and Private Group modes and the different platforms. For a shorter summary of community opinions, see Vox Populi: how do you think modes affect community goals? (only one post allowed per user, as discussed in the first post). Please do not create new threads about the modes of play - they always turn into repeats of the same discussion, so will be closed and redirected to here.
Powerplay
A separate thread has been created for brainstorming ideas to encourage players to Powerplay in Open. Any discussion on the modes in general, the shared galaxy state or mode-switching in that thread will end up being moved into this thread.
The forum rules apply as usual in this thread, but we'd like to highlight some specific points:
Frontier have been thinking about modes since the earliest stages of development. A FAQ item from the original Kickstarter states in part:
This was eventually codified in the design team's "groups" proposal, which was the basis for the grouping system in the game today.
David Braben also discussed modes during the game's development, for example:
Here are some relevant developer posts from around the forums:
From an interview between DBOBE and Arstechnica at E3:2015:
Several of the links above were found by community members (special thanks go to Jockey79 whose post is replicated below). If you have more questions, please search the previous thread or search the previous previous thread.
See https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=216887&p=3310329&viewfull=1#post3310329 below for Jockey79's helpful wall'o'text.
- Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play
- Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in the same universe as all other players but will only ever see and be seen by others in the same private group
- Online SOLO play where the player is in the same universe as all other players, but will see no humans (essentially a private group of one).
This thread is for discussing issues around the Solo, Open and Private Group modes and the different platforms. For a shorter summary of community opinions, see Vox Populi: how do you think modes affect community goals? (only one post allowed per user, as discussed in the first post). Please do not create new threads about the modes of play - they always turn into repeats of the same discussion, so will be closed and redirected to here.
Powerplay
A separate thread has been created for brainstorming ideas to encourage players to Powerplay in Open. Any discussion on the modes in general, the shared galaxy state or mode-switching in that thread will end up being moved into this thread.
Important rules for this thread
The forum rules apply as usual in this thread, but we'd like to highlight some specific points:
- Stay polite and topic. Baiting, insulting or swearing will result in a direct infraction. No warnings, no nice private messages. Baiting includes dead horse references, use of the words "easy mode" or "carebear", accusations of griefing, and picture spam.
- Please do not indulge in pejorative comments about players from *any* of the platforms on which the game has been, or will be (or even might be), released
- Remember how hard it is to read emotion on the Internet. For example, make sure to show your respect for people when disagreeing about whether the group system disqualifies this game as an MMO
- For technical reasons, this thread will be closed and another opened if it goes over 10,000 posts (see the previous thread). This is a server limitation, not a comment about how contentious the thread is at that point
- If you feel a post violates the forum rules, click "report this post" and do not reply
What do Frontier think about the modes?
Frontier have been thinking about modes since the earliest stages of development. A FAQ item from the original Kickstarter states in part:
Original Kickstarter FAQ said:We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.
This was eventually codified in the design team's "groups" proposal, which was the basis for the grouping system in the game today.
David Braben also discussed modes during the game's development, for example:
- During the original Kickstarter video discussing Frontier's vision for multiplayer
- In an interview about griefing
Here are some relevant developer posts from around the forums:
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.
No.
Michael
We're not planning on changing that.Thanks for that clarity Michael.
Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?
Michael
None are planned at the moment.Hi Micheal
I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?
Michael
Hello Commander Demiga!
Seriously, it annoys people. Solo has every right to do community goals - Yes, I get that there is an "unfair advantage" for solo players working a community goal VS. an open player.
Its a very easy fix by FDEV - Make it so that when a Solo/Private Group player turns in a bond for 30k (example) they get 30k in cash, but it only counts as..15k towards the community goal
Wheras the Open players can turn in the same 30k Bond, Receive the same 30k in cash, but it counts as 30k towards the community goal.
Its not so much about not letting this group do that with this, but just make the values weighted differently. Open, it is much harder to make that 30k than it is in solo, so it should be worth x times as much for the goal.
Is this a viable solution for anyone?
For anyone that can see my signature, I am an avid player of Solo/Group - but I really do hear, understand, and mostly agree with what the solo players are saying. I do want to start playing in open at some point. If anyone can give me a good reason as to why this wont work or help, then please explain...
P.S. I say very easy fix by FDEV, but honestly I have no idea. The concept is simple though
Edit - Sorry if anyone was offended by my tone or by the wording I used - had just read a very.....anger inducing thread about completely removing solo mode - Wont happen again - also - I want to reiterate that I fully support both SOLO and OPEN modes, and I believe there can be a great solution so everyone is happy in the end - aka this solution
Edit 2 - Again - I need to reiterate to everyone - This doesnt hurt anyone's personal finances, everyone will still make the same amount when they turn in a bond, everyone will still rank up within the community goal the same (top 70%, top 40%, top 15% etc) - The only thing this does is add a separate advantage to players who want to play in open - This allows them to affect an overall goal better than a solo player. This goal would be a NEW feature added in game if something like this goes through - It doesnt hurt the "advantage" of playing solo either - It really is a WIN-WIN compromise - I believe and fully support all 3 modes....
This is something that I'm considering.
There won't be any changes in the immediate future (our time is fairly booked up right now), but on face value it certainly seems plausible and maybe reasonable to me. I'll need to chew it over some more, obviously. I *believe* a change like this would be possible though (again, I'd have to verify that with team server).
Comments on this would be welcome.
Oh, but obviously, Commander Demiga, let's try and keep the temperature at a reasonable level . Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, as long as they do so politely.
Hello Commander jp josh!
how bout no....
i would like npc in wings to coordinate better in solo and wings of them be more common/hire our own wing to with our spare ships before we take your idea (for combat oriented goals)
for trading make pirates not just interdict but wait for you outside the station again we need to flesh out wings and ai a bit more.
exploring still exploring i don't want to see any type of reduction for explores community goals.
however i am open to the idea of boosting open play bonuses (when in that mode you get a 25% boost to all round profit but the number contributed stays the same)
id also like more range of community goals. (smuggling) where bigger ships are more of a hindrance than helpful so that way players in early ships can actually help rather than add pocket change. (friend tried to help in lugh even though all he had was a adder)
We've hopefully got a fix for Capital ship farming exploits lined up (provisionally for 1.3, but no guarantee).
What I took from Commander Demiga's suggestion was that there might be a consensus that activities carried out in solo mode are "safer/unfair" as there is no chance for other Commanders to oppose them.
I'm not going to take a side at the moment, because I'd like to consider it more.
It could definitely be seen as an attempt to entice folk into playing open, though if the personal rewards remained unchanged I'm not sure that this would be an utter evil.
Fundamentally, Community goals are about Commanders working together, in concert or in opposition. It does not seem completely unreasonable that for such elements we might encourage direct interaction more.
On the other hand, I'm wary of the precedent this might set, and want to make sure that solo mode always fulfils all the requirements it needs to, remaining the completely valid option that it is.
So this is something we would not consider lightly.
Hello Commander Jerakeen!
No, definitely not. Play your own way they said. Well if they punish me for playing my own way then I'll be very irritated. Why should I have to do twice as much to qualify for goal awards just because I choose not to expose myself to being mugged by Johnny McPewPew for my lunch money.
Seriously Sandro. Stop considering this. Very many of your players choose to play in solo and in groups. You'll be upsetting a very large section of the player base.
Possibly I could attempt a counter that suggests at the moment it is unfair against open play mode - you have more risks and challenges but only get the same rewards.
I take your point though.
Possibly, community goal thresholds, when it came to determining where each player sits, could be adjusted to ensure that solo players' actual amounts were considered, which I *think* would prevent any loss of goal rewards.
Like I said though, we'll need to chew over this some more when we get the time. Nothing is going to happen right away.
Hello Commander Demiga!
Sandro - Please read my edit in the original post regarding the tempurature - I apologize for that...was very heated atm lol
Thanks for the reply though - its just if you look at the core of all these issues,its that open mode is harder, so what is the incentive for a CMDR to play in open when they can farm in solo? Well, obviously, you cant make the bounties worth different amounts, that would absolutely enrage everyone.
So why not - in your Personal opinion, what would be some reasons as to why this wouldnt work?
Don't worry, no harm, no foul, it was just a helpful reminder!
I can't give you my considered opinions just yet because, well, I need a little more time to consider them!
But this is clearly an interesting debate, on both sides of the fence, so we will revisit it at a later date.
FuzzySpider
The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.
Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?
Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.
We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.
Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?
It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.
For fun
That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.
Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.
FuzzySpider said:The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.
Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?
Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.
We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.
From an interview between DBOBE and Arstechnica at E3:2015:
.... Producer Ben Dowie reiterated that Xbox One and PC players won’t be playing head-to-head—although they’ll be playing in the same simulated universe, they’ll never encounter each other in space, likely because Microsoft’s Xbox patch cycle adds complexity to Frontier’s game update procedure.
I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”
There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.
Several of the links above were found by community members (special thanks go to Jockey79 whose post is replicated below). If you have more questions, please search the previous thread or search the previous previous thread.
See https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=216887&p=3310329&viewfull=1#post3310329 below for Jockey79's helpful wall'o'text.
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