WTB better C4 Plasma Accelerators / Cannons

[Soothsayer]

After fooling around with both the C4 cannon (fixed and gimballed) and C4 plasma accelerator on my Anaconda, I've discovered that neither are particularly useful in most situations, although the PA is somewhat useful against the largest ships (corvettes / condas). Why are the available huge hardpoints in this game so... underwhelming? They're supposedly enormous weapons, and should have the firepower to fit the bill. Clearly, the available class 3 weaponry is far more efficient when it comes to killing enemies quickly, which is kind of the overall point of having tons of firepower.

A fairly significant velocity buff to both cannons and PAs, as well as more consistent hull damage from cannon rounds (1 - 2% hull damage against an Asp...?!) seems reasonable. A bit less capacitor drain from firing the PA would also be helpful. Smaller ships would still be fairly difficult to hit, but at least it'd hopefully give C4 weaponry a bit more viability. Virtually no ship builds I encounter utilize C4 hardpoints, since they're just so heinously, utterly inefficient.

 

[thorn-]

My impression when facing larger ships such as the Conda and Python is that the lethal factor is based on more hardpoints, and more power to sustain those weapons as well as shield modules.

So, perhaps examine not only the power of the weapon you've picked, but your entire loadout and tactics.

 

[Ransurias]

C4 PAs aren't bad, but they're very situational and only useful on certain ships. On the Corvette and the FDL, they're great. On the Anaconda, they're awful, since it's difficult to get a clear shot on a moving target due to the location of its C4 hardpoint. Also, it's more of a subsystem weapon than a general-purpose one, which makes it even less useful for the Annie. There's a good reason you'll never see C4 PAs on a sensible Conda build. With 4 large and 2 medium hardpoints, you can take out a larger ship's powerplant in a matter of seconds with pulse / beam lasers / multicannons, anyway, so why bother taking an eternity to line up shots with the PA for a petty ~15 - 20% hull damage?

Cannons are pretty much useless, though...

 

[metatheurgist]

Cannons are pretty much useless, though...

I wouldn't call 2-shotting an Anaconda power plant with a C3 cannon on a Vulture useless. Though it was more useful when they blew up at 0%.

 

[crushdepth]

Nah, give me a C4 shipbreaker torpedo

 

[Mohrgan]

The way I see it is, the C4 PA is for the beginning of a fight and the end of the fight. Especially on a ship that turns like the Anaconda. An alpha strike with the PA works well against shields. Then use your other weapons to chew out the PP. Once they are floating, the PA will finish them off. Continue to work on the PP. It looks to me that each hit the PP takes below 0% has a chance to burst it.

More variesty, Rails, Frags and the like are seriously in order, but Huge weapons that one shot stuff, in my opinion, isn't desirable either. As things scale up, they don;t necessarily go up linearly.

 

[DragoonKnight]

C4 PAs aren't bad, but they're very situational and only useful on certain ships. On the Corvette and the FDL, they're great. On the Anaconda, they're awful, since it's difficult to get a clear shot on a moving target due to the location of its C4 hardpoint. Also, it's more of a subsystem weapon than a general-purpose one, which makes it even less useful for the Annie. There's a good reason you'll never see C4 PAs on a sensible Conda build. With 4 large and 2 medium hardpoints, you can take out a larger ship's powerplant in a matter of seconds with pulse / beam lasers / multicannons, anyway, so why bother taking an eternity to line up shots with the PA for a petty ~15 - 20% hull damage?

Cannons are pretty much useless, though...

C4 PAs are much less energy efficient than Class 3 PA. A class 4 PA does about 25% more damage than a class 3, but is hindered by huge energy requirements (about half of a 6A power distributor per shot) which often means you have to slow down the rate of fire of the rest of your weapons.
Cannons have horrible projectile speeds, which does not even make sense since one of the benefits of a larger projectile is the fact that the shell can contain more power / explosive and thus be fired with higher velocities. If it is a caseless projectile, then it makes even more sense for it to have higher velocities. It makes even less sense that my 5.56 mm Rifle fires at comparable or possibly higher velocities (about 1000 m/s) than the Cannons in Elite that have had 1000 years of technological progress applied to them and do not have to deal with air resistance.

 

[thorn-]

Cannons have horrible projectile speeds, which does not even make sense since one of the benefits of a larger projectile is the fact that the shell can contain more power / explosive and thus be fired with higher velocities

Indeed. The low speed of cannon shells is simply bizarre.

 

[mono]

On the same theme We're more than a year in and into a second 'season' and the only huge weapons are canon and plasma. No class 4 lasers and not even a class 3 MC equivalent.

If it's all about balance why have huge hard points in the game at all? It's supposed to be 3302 yet laser size is capped and no-one has tried to strap one of those huge station guns to their 'conda'.

After fooling around with both the C4 cannon (fixed and gimballed) and C4 plasma accelerator on my Anaconda, I've discovered that neither are particularly useful in most situations, although the PA is somewhat useful against the largest ships (corvettes / condas). Why are the available huge hardpoints in this game so... underwhelming? They're supposedly enormous weapons, and should have the firepower to fit the bill. Clearly, the available class 3 weaponry is far more efficient when it comes to killing enemies quickly, which is kind of the overall point of having tons of firepower.

A fairly significant velocity buff to both cannons and PAs, as well as more consistent hull damage from cannon rounds (1 - 2% hull damage against an Asp...?!) seems reasonable. A bit less capacitor drain from firing the PA would also be helpful. Smaller ships would still be fairly difficult to hit, but at least it'd hopefully give C4 weaponry a bit more viability. Virtually no ship builds I encounter utilize C4 hardpoints, since they're just so heinously, utterly inefficient.

 

[h347h]

On the same theme We're more than a year in and into a second 'season' and the only huge weapons are canon and plasma. No class 4 lasers and not even a class 3 MC equivalent.

If it's all about balance why have huge hard points in the game at all? It's supposed to be 3302 yet laser size is capped and no-one has tried to strap one of those huge station guns to their 'conda'.

Well class 3 multi cannons are coming in 2.1 and possibly more C4 weapons so wait and see.

 

[Troa Barton]

You guys should have a laugh and try to use the class 4 PA on that other "warship" the cutter!

on topic I've also thought the class 4 weapons are underwhelming to say the least.
when they add more options I'd like to see the PA and cannon get a buff.

 

[h347h]

You guys should have a laugh and try to use the class 4 PA on that other "warship" the cutter!

on topic I've also thought the class 4 weapons are underwhelming to say the least.
when they add more options I'd like to see the PA and cannon get a buff.

If anything C3s need a slight nerf. They should not do full damage to large ships. More like 80% damage to large ships. If they would do that they wouldn't have to go overboard and break the game with making C4 weapons do insane damage.

 

[mono]

Which illustrates my point exactly. They should have been available when the ships were first available.

Well class 3 multi cannons are coming in 2.1 and possibly more C4 weapons so wait and see.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

Well class 3 multi cannons are coming in 2.1 and possibly more C4 weapons so wait and see.

That's welcome news. I sold my turreted cannon after shooting 8 rounds point blank at a disabled Anaconda and only saw hull damage go down by 1%!

 

[DragoonKnight]

You guys should have a laugh and try to use the class 4 PA on that other "warship" the cutter!

on topic I've also thought the class 4 weapons are underwhelming to say the least.
when they add more options I'd like to see the PA and cannon get a buff.

There really needs to be a Class 4 Turret weapon

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If anything C3s need a slight nerf. They should not do full damage to large ships. More like 80% damage to large ships. If they would do that they wouldn't have to go overboard and break the game with making C4 weapons do insane damage.

Insane damage is the whole point of C4 weapons, considering that only 4 ships can even use them and only 2 of those ships have the agility to use fixed Class 4 weapons effectively. In addition, those Class 4 hardpoints on the FDL and Corvette are their main selling points. You just want a straight up weapons nerf across the board.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Well class 3 multi cannons are coming in 2.1 and possibly more C4 weapons so wait and see.

Is 2.1 confirmed ? I know that they are coming, but if really that early I'll be very happy. Unless their final incarnation somehow ends as useless as the C4 cannon.

 

[Soothsayer]

I wouldn't call 2-shotting an Anaconda power plant with a C3 cannon on a Vulture useless. Though it was more useful when they blew up at 0%.

You'd just be angry and confused if you tried using a C4 cannon on an Anaconda. They're appallingly bad. Like, unbelievably so. Their tracking with the gimballed variant is awful, and their hull damage is pathetic.

So, honestly, I don't think a velocity buff -- or a buff to hull damage -- would necessarily make things imbalanced for smaller ships that can more effectively utilize subsystem-oriented weaponry like cannons and PAs, since they're already capable of getting into good positions for easy PP shots. However, if we maintain that cannons and PAs are balanced in their current state, Anaconda-friendly huge hardpoints should be made available. Otherwise, there's simply no point in even having a C4 hardpoint at all.

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Is 2.1 confirmed ? I know that they are coming, but if really that early I'll be very happy. Unless their final incarnation somehow ends as useless as the C4 cannon.

If more C4 weapons are added, you can bet they'll be significantly more inefficient than C3 weapons for only a modest damage gain. With a decent weapons loadout, I'd guess ~4 - 5 seconds of continuous fire (as opposed to 7 or 8) in exchange for 25% more damage.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Huge hardhardpoints are supposed to be these great things that define a ship. So an FDL's huge hardpoint is supposed to mean something. A Corvette's two huge hardpoints are supposed to represent overwhelming firepower. If they are going to go with the model that a C4 has to be much more inefficient than its C3 counterpart, than that defeats the entire selling point of huge hardpoints. Then they are hardly better than a Class 3.

 

[Soothsayer]

Huge hardhardpoints are supposed to be these great things that define a ship. So an FDL's huge hardpoint is supposed to mean something. A Corvette's two huge hardpoints are supposed to represent overwhelming firepower. If they are going to go with the model that a C4 has to be much more inefficient than its C3 counterpart, than that defeats the entire selling point of huge hardpoints. Then they are hardly better than a Class 3.

At the very least, C4 PAs should be just as efficient as C3 variants. Why they're so difficult to mount and use is beyond me.

 

[shambles1980]

I would like to see cannon velocity increased. also larger rail guns would be nice. plasma accelerators really are very underwhelming at class 3 compared to something as basic as a frag cannon.

i find the kinetic energy weapons suffer slightly more than the thermal energy weapons. but really kinetic weapon velocity should be pretty high (really high). Even just a matter of 20psi of air pressure should be enough to propel any projectile at incredible speeds in the vacuum of space, (much faster than any projectile fired on earth) let alone the pressures of explosive gas expansion.
and at the range that dog fights happen. there is no reason why the projectile wouldn't be on the target almost as soon as it left the barrel.

but then again thats just physics so we have to enter game play in to the equasion. So perhaps not go "realistic speeds" but atleast have the things be the same as the multi cannons now..

(there is no reason why i have to aim a few hundred yards infront to hit with a mc, but near enough 1/2 a mile to hit with the cannon)