Turret Nerfs are Overdoing it Guys.

[jay3141592]

It just confuses me that the most efficient weapons I can install on my vulture are the gimballed pulses. Which are about, what, 1/20th of the price of the gimballed beams?

That doesn't make any sense. The more expensive weapons should actually be *better*.

 

[Universal Evil]

Of course there is. You have a class "x" volume of space to make a weapon. You can put in 100% weapon, or you can add bits that make it swivel, or bits that make it swivel a lot and track targets. The more space you use for swivelly bits the less space you have for weapon bits.

I don't recall anywhere that says that a sppecific class of hardpoint has "X" volume to be fit with weapons... ??
The guns you can fit into a specific class/hardpoint are different yes, but all 3 class 2 multiguns are the same gun and uses the same calibre of bullits which has the same speed coming out of the barrel, so they should make the same damage to whatever they hit, if the game should be anything closer to real life.
The fact that some weapons are fixed to the hull or fixed to some devise that's making them swivel, doesn't make the bullits coming from them any weaker...
If you get shot(hit) by a handgun, it realy doesn't matter whether the man holding the gun shooting you has his arms fixated or can move them as he please, right ? The bullit that hits you do the same damage to you whether or not the mans arms were fixed or not...

 

[Sunleader]

Of course there is. You have a class "x" volume of space to make a weapon. You can put in 100% weapon, or you can add bits that make it swivel, or bits that make it swivel a lot and track targets. The more space you use for swivelly bits the less space you have for weapon bits.

Except that Target Tracking etc is done by your Sensors not by the Gun. Thus it making no sense to use more Gun Space for it.
I would say this aint WW2 but even in WW2 Ships already had an Central FCS lol

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yes you are right, the bigger ships should have more powerfull turrets, afterall biggerships=more room for higher grade powerplants, witch would translate into more powerful weapons.
i wonder how much a capital class battleship would suffer from having turreted weapons, those things should be able to vaporize small viper sized ships instantly.
i never use turrets, on my clipper, i have used em on a type 6, but for pure defensive matters.

The Problem is even if the Clipper is among the really maneuverable Big Ships.
He is still no Match for an Viper or Cobra.
Which means he will be outmaneuvered easily.

Its Hilarious how an 700 Ton Ship basicly has the same Gunpower as an 70 Ton Ship....

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I found the turrets pointless as well. I thought they'd fit my CMDR's style - I wanted it to be a rare goods trader, so relying on "automated" defenses and paying a premium for it while equipping ships. But none of the weaponry available fits - turrets are essentially one class lower than gimballed weapons and still cost more; torpedoes and missiles are, well, and don't get me started on mines.

Given that turrets are so expensive, their lack of firepower is really disappointing. On a largeish transporter, they should make someone trying to simply stick to your behind think twice.

Not very Surprising.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140240

An Class 3 Burst Laser Turret is doing less Damage Per Second than an Class 1 Burst Laser Fixed Mount Gun....
If you check the List you notice that almost all Turrets are at the lower End of the List. And your seeing Regularily that Lower Class Fixed and Gimballed Weapons are doing far more Damage than the High Rated Turret Weapons.....

 

[Sunleader]

Agreed.
If the unanimous view of players is to stop using turrets, then it's because they're underpowered and need a boost.
BTW, I have no big ships and nothing with turrets, so it's no that I'm asking for my own benefit, this is just simple logic.

The Main Thing is that Turrets are Essential if you actually want to Play an Ship as Corvette rather than a Fighter.
Corvettes with their Bigger Size are just not meant to Engaging in Frontal Attack Runs.

Heck they announced they will allow Turrets to be Manned by another Player later on.
But honestly Said I dont think I.ll ever use that Feature with the Current Turrets.
Because lets face it. Given Current Turret Damages. An Anaconda would be far Stronger using Forward Weapons than an Anaconda using Turrets and having a Second Player Manning them.
Turrets are entirely Useless. I have no Idea why I should have someone sit on my Turrets in this Game if they are doing 1/3 of the Damage an Gimballed Weapon will do...

 

[Sunleader]

Hello All, "Space Time" here...
I've been gone a long time (maybe 8-9 months) and so much has changed, that my comments may be weak, yet of historic significance.

B-17 thinking...
When I think of turrets, I don't think of them as having value other than deterrent in nature, yet could hold off or down a single fighter.
25 missions was what those B-17 crews would have to live through during WW2, yet there were more downed by Flak, than there were downed by fighters. This means that of those 25 near impossible number of missions to survive through, that, "that number" (25) could be cut down to less than half that amount of losses... We don't have bases that need heavy hitting large spacecraft as the B-17 was designed to do, yet the "Flying Fortress" is still what large ships are thought to be, unless they are as many have said here, "Just a larger fighter ship".

Myself being out of it for a while now, my question is, "are the turrets a deterrent", and if so, "how much of deterrent are they?"

From what all I've read here, a single fighter has a better chance than that of any large ship with turreted fire power. If this is true, then I do think that the turrets need to be buffed up until a single fighter can't easily kill one, yet an engagement with the objective of shooting down fighters (or that single one) should become a risk not on the bright side in the turreted fire power's regards.

"Whacha' Tink?"
~Space Time~

This aint WW2 Aircraft Mate.
We dont Break Apart with a Single Good Hit like an Bomber from WW2 Does.
Nor will the Fighter Go Down if taking a Few Hits from that Turret like in WW2
In WW2 The Turrets were used as an Defensive Weapon to Force a Tradeoff basicly Saying If you want to come close enough to Kill me. You have to cross into my Rain of Lead and Risk that your Falling down as well.
Ingame however Turrets are not Capable of Downing a Fighter in an Attack Run. So they have no Deterrental Value at all.
Especially not for Defensive Purposes because lets Face it. An Cobra Attacking an Anaconda from Behind while the Anaconda only having Turrets. Will Cause far more Damage to the Anaconda than Vice Versa.



Its making more Sense to Compare it to Ships rather than Aircraft.
And while Patrol and Torpedo Boats mostly had Weapons with Forward Arcs while not really having any Turrets.
Corvettes and Frigates mainly had Turrets with 270 Degree Arc which were used as Main Attack Weapon. Not as Defensive Armaments.

 

[Sunleader]

+More Hitpoints
+More Armour
+More Shields
+More Weapons
+Smaller weapons do 33% less damage per size rating against your ship.

Lets make a rough example.

Small ship 33 HP
Medium ship 66 HP
Large Ship 99 HP

Small and Large ship both have a S1 laser that does 9 points of damage. Both ships shoot at each other and HIT.

Result:

Small ship: -9 HP
Large ship: -3 HP

Total damage to small ship: 27%
Total damage to large ship: 3%

If that additional damage reduction apart from the fact that larger ships already have massive armour and HP already SHOULD have cost the larger ship 9% hp loss.

The ONLY counterpoint smaller ships have is that larger TURRETS are worse at tracking smaller targets.

You want to hit a smaller target, get a smaller turret, a larger turret does very little difference in damage (Large 3 DPS / Medium 2 DPS / Small 2 DPS)

Get the right tool for the job, the larger turret is not designed to hit small targets.

1.
Not really so Far.
An Viper MK-IV is not rarely taking more Damage than an Clipper when I am attacking it.
Having more HitPoints might Sound nice on the Stats Sheet.
But in the Game its rather unimportand because being Smaller also means your Hit less.

2.
Armor in this Game makes hardly a Difference except for Inner Modules.
And in this case the Larger Ships are actually Weaker because its way easier to Aim for those.
The Armor is just somewhat outbalancing that Disadvantage and its not even Outbalancing it 100%

3.
Nope. The Shield Difference is pretty small here Honestly.
Not only are you far easier to Hit. But thanks to the Larger Area to Cover your actual Shield Power aint going up that much either.

Maybe you should read the Wiki Infos more often.

Class

Increases Power Draw
Determines the Minimum Mass, Optimal Mass and Maximum Mass.[2]
Does not directly provide a bonus in shield strength.[3]

Rating

Higher rating increases shield strength. Appears to be a 7.5% increase in shield strength per rating increase.[1]
D is ~7.5% stronger than E
C is ~15% stronger than E
B is ~22.5% stronger than E
A is ~30% stronger than E


The Rating is Increasing your Shield Power.
The Class is not actually Increasing it.
An A-4 Shield still is Stronger than an B-5 Shield.

The Class only Determines how Big the Ship it can Cover is and Provides the Indirect Bonus against Smaller Weapon Classes.
an Vulture with Class 3 Weapons will Break the Shields A Rated Shield of an Viper just as fast as that on an Clipper.


4.
Yes. Which is hardly any Use because the Power Draw is so High that you will not really be able to use all Weapons anyways.
Unless of course Playing as an Fighter and doing Attack Runs while Pumping out as much Short Time Damage as Possible.
Unfortunately doing that against an Fighter will only end with you Firing into Empty Space and be nicely in your Rear.


5.
Well. Turret vs Fixed is an Damage Difference of more than 50% in alot of Cases.
Guess what. Even if the Enemy Fighter does not have Class 3 Weapons he still Churns out way more Damage than the Bigger Ship....



6.
Very nice Example.
Once again Assuming that we are Playing the Bigger Ship as an Fighter with Fixed Weaponry.
Unfortunately the Game Situation looks more like this.

Fighter using Medium Weapons doing 20 Damage.
Against Big Ship is only doing 14 Damage.
Meanwhile the Big Ship is using Medium Turrets doing 10 Damage from the Start.

An while the Big Ship with 200 HP will be Hit 10 Times in the First Run and lose 140 HP in a Flash.
the Medium Fighter with its 100 HP will be Hit only 3 Times and lose 30 HP
Leaving the Big Guy with 60 HP while the Fighter has 70 HP Left.

Not to mention we Ignore the Shields here as for the Shields the Big Guy will actually Lose its Shields First....



And no mate.
If you Check the Weapon Stats its completely unrelated to the Hit Chance.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140240

Its simply that right now an Class 3 Burst Laser Turret is doing less Damage than an Class 1 Fixed Burst Laser.
An Class 1 Burst Laser Turret is doing even less Damage of course.
So using an Class 1 Burst Laser Turret would not do anything here.

For your Info.
Class 1 Fixed Burst Laser has an Damage of 10 DPS
The Class 1 Turret Burst Laser has an Damage of 3 DPS
In short an Small Ship with Fixed Weapons would still Deal more Damage to an Large Ship than the Turret would Deal to the Small Ship.
Pls note just so we are on the same Page. An Class 3 Turret Burst Laser is has 9 DPS
Notice something ?

Class 3 Turret Damage is Inferior to Class 1 Fixed Weapon Damage in this Case.


Right now the only Turret actually doing any Damage at all is the Class 3 Beam Laser Turret.
Which is still doing less than 50% of the Fixed Beam Lasers Damage and is still Inferior to an Class 2 Beam Laser with Fixed Mount.
But at the least is not Outmatched by most Class 2 Gimballed Weapons.
The Cost for that however is an Insane Energy Drain you cannot Control because the Turrets cant be Told to Stop Firing.



Mate Face it.
Turrets are USELESS.
Right now Bigger Ships can only be Played as Fighters.
For which they have no Real Value because they are too Expensive and too Cumbery to Work as that.

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It just confuses me that the most efficient weapons I can install on my vulture are the gimballed pulses. Which are about, what, 1/20th of the price of the gimballed beams?

That doesn't make any sense. The more expensive weapons should actually be *better*.

The most Effective Weapon for your Vulture would be Class 3 Fixed Beam Laser with 30 DPS
The Class 3 Fixed Burst Laser with 25 DPS
Or the Class 3 Gimballed Beam Laser with 24 DPS

Gimballed Pulse Laser with 18 DPS is actually a bit more down the List...
The Gimballed Pulse Laser is however the most Energy Efficient Gimballed Weapon in the Game.
Which is why I am using it right now as well because despite my Massive Power Generator Size I am not really able to Power the Weapons I got if I use anything Bigger...

 

[DragoonKnight]

How about No ?
Mate Gimballed Works Fine as long as Enemy is NPC.
Players unfortunately are not that Stupid as to Stay within your Firing Arc for long when they got an more Maneuverable Ship.
And for the Short times they Cross your Arc they Throw you a Chaff making your Gimballed Guns useless for that Time Window.
(Actually by now even NPCs do that pretty often just not as coordinated...)

If you are getting outmanuevered and overtaken by speed in a clipper then the problem is not in your weapons but your pilot skills

 

[Sunleader]

If you are getting outmanuevered and overtaken by speed in a clipper then the problem is not in your weapons but your pilot skills

Mate. If you dont even know the Difference between Maneuverability and Speed then maybe you should just Shut Up about Combat entirely.

For your Info. The Clipper is one of the Fastest Ships in the Game. It wont be Overtaken so easily.
Unfortunately being the Fastest Ship ever is not going to use anything if your Limited to Forward Weapons.

An Cobra will easily Outmaneuver an Clipper and Sit on its Ass.
Of course the Clipper is the absolute King when it comes to Running Away.
But Running Away wont Kill Enemies you know......

Edit:
Here Mate.
So you see the Difference I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhBq6OwCIqM

The Clipper in the Video is using Class 3 Energy Turrets and Class 2 for some Kinetic and Ordnance.
The Cobra is using Fixed Weapons.

The Cobra Spawns in a Bad position immediatly receiving a Full Charge from the Clipper. Which is not enough to Break down the Cobras Shields. (Which is Logical because the Cobra basicly has Equal Shields to the Clipper)
It only takes a moment for the Cobra to Maneuver outside of the Main Arc of the Clipper. The Clipper cant do anything about this. Because albeit being Faster than the Cobra. The Cobra is 2 times as Maneuverable.
Short time later the Cobra is right in Front of the Clipper and doing an Simple Headon from slightly Above where only the Turrets will Fight back.
And you can see Immediatly. While the Class 3 Turrets of the Clipper dont even manage to Break the Cobras Shield.
The Cobra easily Breaks through the Clippers Shield and Starts causing Damage to its Hull.

When in Trouble the Cobra simply drops a Chaff rendering Turret Weapons entirely Useless.
The Clipper Realizes that he has no Chance and Retreats.

The only Right Decision in this case. Because in this Game the 400k Credit Costing Fighter Cobra is Highly Superior to the 22000k Costing Corvette Imperior Clipper.


You might not Realize this because you only see the Statcard and have no Idea of how things work in Actual Combat Situations.
But the Clipper even if it has incredible Speed and thus can Run Away from almost everything.
Is not very maneuverable compared to an Fighter.
The Clipper with Fixed Weapons will hardly be able to Hold Guns at Target against an Cobra.
And even with Gimballed Weapons the Cobra will be able to Easily Avoid being in its Firing Arc for most of the Time. Add Chaff to this and you can be sure an Clipper will never Pose any Danger to an Cobra.
With Turrets the Clipper will be Capable of keeping at least some of His Weapons on Target. But thanks to Turrets hardly doing any Damage its meaningless at this Point it will simply Outgun the Clipper.


Mate no Offense.
But there is an Reason why PvP Players are Currently Limiting themselves to Cobras and Vipers with hardly anyone using Bigger Ships.
In an PvP Tournament where any Ship is allowed. You can currently assume the Top 100 will be Cobras, Vipers and maybe some other Fighters.
You will likely not see any of the Bigger Ships in that.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Mate. If you dont even know the Difference between Maneuverability and Speed then maybe you should just Shut Up about Combat entirely.

For your Info. The Clipper is one of the Fastest Ships in the Game. It wont be Overtaken so easily.
Unfortunately being the Fastest Ship ever is not going to use anything if your Limited to Forward Weapons.

An Cobra will easily Outmaneuver an Clipper and Sit on its Ass.
Of course the Clipper is the absolute King when it comes to Running Away.
But Running Away wont Kill Enemies you know......

Edit:
Here Mate.
So you see the Difference I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhBq6OwCIqM

The Clipper in the Video is using Class 3 Energy Turrets and Class 2 for some Kinetic and Ordnance.
The Cobra is using Fixed Weapons.

The Cobra Spawns in a Bad position immediatly receiving a Full Charge from the Clipper. Which is not enough to Break down the Cobras Shields. (Which is Logical because the Cobra basicly has Equal Shields to the Clipper)
It only takes a moment for the Cobra to Maneuver outside of the Main Arc of the Clipper. The Clipper cant do anything about this. Because albeit being Faster than the Cobra. The Cobra is 2 times as Maneuverable.
Short time later the Cobra is right in Front of the Clipper and doing an Simple Headon from slightly Above where only the Turrets will Fight back.
And you can see Immediatly. While the Class 3 Turrets of the Clipper dont even manage to Break the Cobras Shield.
The Cobra easily Breaks through the Clippers Shield and Starts causing Damage to its Hull.

When in Trouble the Cobra simply drops a Chaff rendering Turret Weapons entirely Useless.
The Clipper Realizes that he has no Chance and Retreats.

The only Right Decision in this case. Because in this Game the 400k Credit Costing Fighter Cobra is Highly Superior to the 22000k Costing Corvette Imperior Clipper.


You might not Realize this because you only see the Statcard and have no Idea of how things work in Actual Combat Situations.
But the Clipper even if it has incredible Speed and thus can Run Away from almost everything.
Is not very maneuverable compared to an Fighter.
The Clipper with Fixed Weapons will hardly be able to Hold Guns at Target against an Cobra.
And even with Gimballed Weapons the Cobra will be able to Easily Avoid being in its Firing Arc for most of the Time. Add Chaff to this and you can be sure an Clipper will never Pose any Danger to an Cobra.
With Turrets the Clipper will be Capable of keeping at least some of His Weapons on Target. But thanks to Turrets hardly doing any Damage its meaningless at this Point it will simply Outgun the Clipper.


Mate no Offense.
But there is an Reason why PvP Players are Currently Limiting themselves to Cobras and Vipers with hardly anyone using Bigger Ships.
In an PvP Tournament where any Ship is allowed. You can currently assume the Top 100 will be Cobras, Vipers and maybe some other Fighters.
You will likely not see any of the Bigger Ships in that.

Your video starts with the Cobra pilot describing how the clipper caught him and how he barely escaped. And you have obviously never flown a clipper if you think it is a poorly manueverable ship.
In order for the Cobra to win there has to be a large disparity in pilot skill and obviously there is if the clipper was foolish enough to use turrets.

 

[Sunleader]

Your video starts with the Cobra pilot describing how the clipper caught him and how he barely escaped. And you have obviously never flown a clipper if you think it is a poorly manueverable ship.
In order for the Cobra to win there has to be a large disparity in pilot skill and obviously there is if the clipper was foolish enough to use turrets.

Mate no Offense.
But you do Realize that the Topic here is that Turrets are Useless and Underpowered dont ya ????

 

[metatheurgist]

I don't recall anywhere that says that a sppecific class of hardpoint has "X" volume to be fit with weapons... ??
The guns you can fit into a specific class/hardpoint are different yes, but all 3 class 2 multiguns are the same gun and uses the same calibre of bullits which has the same speed coming out of the barrel, so they should make the same damage to whatever they hit, if the game should be anything closer to real life.
The fact that some weapons are fixed to the hull or fixed to some devise that's making them swivel, doesn't make the bullits coming from them any weaker...
If you get shot(hit) by a handgun, it realy doesn't matter whether the man holding the gun shooting you has his arms fixated or can move them as he please, right ? The bullit that hits you do the same damage to you whether or not the mans arms were fixed or not...

When you have to fold your arm and your gun into your torso it does! Your arms are arms, they're not hardpoints that retract and deploy from inside your chest! Originally to represent this idea, gimbled weapons were a full class lower than fixed weapons. The devs decided that was too extreme and just reduced damage instead. Count your blessings.

 

[Sunleader]

When you have to fold your arm and your gun into your torso it does! Your arms are arms, they're not hardpoints that retract and deploy from inside your chest! Originally to represent this idea, gimbled weapons were a full class lower than fixed weapons. The devs decided that was too extreme and just reduced damage instead. Count your blessings.

Ehm Mate.
No Offense.

But Class 3 Burst Laser Turret is doing less Damage than an Class 1 Burst Laser Fixed Mount.
So yeah..... It was too Extreme to drop it by one Class. So they dropped it by two Classes.

Oh the Blessings to Nerf us by 2 Classes rather than just 1 Class
Makes sense lol.



And Mate.
The Devs Decision is Wrong
As easy as that.

The Devs Decision right now is that there is no Corvettes etc in the Game.
The Game only has Fighters nothing else.
Thats the Decision they made.

And thats what they are saying with this Balancing.
They say. Turrets are not supposed to be Used.

I just dont get why they dont just Remove Turrets and Bigger Ships from the Game alltogether.
What use does it have to use an Ship Costing 3 Million Credits to Rebuy. When your Combat Power is basicly the same as when using an Ship that Costs 30k Credits to Rebuy....

 

[shambles1980]

turrets are useful. (multi cannons any way)
Limiting your self to 1 set of weapons is quite well Limiting..
You have turrets MC's for those nimble little blighters, all they are for is to keep the fire rate on them so sheilds dont regen.
you have your gimbled kinetic weapons for shield destruction (and possible module killing)
and then you have your fixed kinetic weapons for the hull..

I personally use the above combination.
Turrets are useful.. they may not be destructive, but they can keep the opponent under fire whilst you position to get your fixed weapon lined up.
If You dont find them useful thats fine. but claiming that they arent at all useful because they dont fill the role you want them to is wrong.
They do fill the role i want them to fill. (masses of ammo, no noticable power usage, and keeps the target under fire whilst out of my direct sight during positioning) They have even "numerous times" killed the target whilst i couldn't even see it. sure enough a few more seconds i would have had them back in my sights, but the turrets killed them for me.
So its not a matter of they are useless. Its simply a matter of you just don't have a use for them.
you cant really make them as strong as gimbled or the fixed variants, because people would just strap nothing but turrets all over target some one hit fire, and then go make a cup of tea.

 

[Sunleader]

turrets are useful. (multi cannons any way)
Limiting your self to 1 set of weapons is quite well Limiting..
You have turrets MC's for those nimble little blighters, all they are for is to keep the fire rate on them so sheilds dont regen.
you have your gimbled kinetic weapons for shield destruction (and possible module killing)
and then you have your fixed kinetic weapons for the hull..

I personally use the above combination.
Turrets are useful.. they may not be destructive, but they can keep the opponent under fire whilst you position to get your fixed weapon lined up.
If You dont find them useful thats fine. but claiming that they arent at all useful because they dont fill the role you want them to is wrong.
They do fill the role i want them to fill. (masses of ammo, no noticable power usage, and keeps the target under fire whilst out of my direct sight during positioning) They have even "numerous times" killed the target whilst i couldn't even see it. sure enough a few more seconds i would have had them back in my sights, but the turrets killed them for me.
So its not a matter of they are useless. Its simply a matter of you just don't have a use for them.
you cant really make them as strong as gimbled or the fixed variants, because people would just strap nothing but turrets all over target some one hit fire, and then go make a cup of tea.

Ehm mate.
The Turret Multi Cannon is among the Weakest Weapons in the Entire Game.

Class 2
Fixed Multi Cannon has 6.02 DPS
Gimballed Multi Cannon has 5.59 DPS
Turret Multi Cannon has 2.15 DPS

Notice Something ?



And well Mate.
Thats nice and neat if your an Fighter.
But (and thats the reason why the PvP Players are almost exclusively using Cobra/Viper Class Ships) for the Bigger Ships this is not very Effective.
Players aint stupid like NPCs They aint sitting there for several Seconds giving you an Excellent Firing Field on them.
Against NPCs this Works well. But to begin with NPCs aint a Real Problem anyways. Against NPCs I can also just use 4 Rail Guns on my Clipper.
As NPCs are seriously Bad at Maneuvering they will be Hit by that and be Killed Fast.
Against Players however. Getting an Hit in with Fixed Weapons when using an Corvette against an Fighter is by far margin not such an Easy Task.
An Cobra vs an Clipper which does not want to be hit by your Fixed Weapons. Wont be Hit by your Fixed Weapons.




And Mate.
Originally Corvettes should only be using Turrets to begin with.
As for People Strapping Turrets on everything there is an Simply Solution here.

Stop making everything into an Fighter.
Stop with every Ship having ONLY Forward Weapons.

Turret Slots should not be Forward Weapons and should not have the Option to Mount Fixed Weapons at all.
It should have the Choice between Gimballed and Turret Weapon and Should have an Firing Direction.
For example.
The Clippers Class 3 Gun Mounts on its Gazelles. Should be Turret Mounts.
They should be Aiming to the Left/Right Side and not Forward.
If your using an Turret Weapon the Firing Arc would be the same its now.
If your using an Gimballed Weapon the Firing Arc should be less Wide and would actually mean it cannot Fire and Targets Directly in Front or Directly Behind you. But rather in an 150 Degree Radius to the Left/Right Side of that Gazelle.


Currently this Game is Forcing everything into Fighters.
The Sizes are somewhat different.
But Ultimately the only Ships we have is Fighters.

Because all Ships are Limited Exclusively to Forward Weapons.
Turrets sometimes being Able to Fire to the Sides or the Rear is just an Bonus that on top is often not even applying because the Forward Mounts are Placed at Positions where the Option to Mount a Turret is Idiotic as anything but the Frontal Firing Arc is Blocked off by the Ships Structure anyways.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Mate no Offense.
But you do Realize that the Topic here is that Turrets are Useless and Underpowered dont ya ????

I agreed with you that turrets are pretty awful for killing anything larger than an eagle. It is also quite ridiculous that you can have millions of credits worth of sensors that weigh 160 Tons and they can be negated by a 9000 credit chaff unit that weighs 1 ton.

The disagreement is with the secondary point of your topic, which seems to be to tell us how awful the clipper is and how awful turreted weapons on it. I am simply trying to point out that a Clipper is actually a very agile ship and is not meant to be used with turrets. It goes very well with gimballed weapons which are far from horrible (compared to turrets). Now, if you said Conda or Cutter or even Corvette in your examples then that would make a lot more sense and I would be more inclined to agree with you.

 

[metatheurgist]

Ehm Mate.
No Offense.

But Class 3 Burst Laser Turret is doing less Damage than an Class 1 Burst Laser Fixed Mount.
So yeah..... It was too Extreme to drop it by one Class. So they dropped it by two Classes.

Oh the Blessings to Nerf us by 2 Classes rather than just 1 Class
Makes sense lol.



And Mate.
The Devs Decision is Wrong
As easy as that.

The Devs Decision right now is that there is no Corvettes etc in the Game.
The Game only has Fighters nothing else.
Thats the Decision they made.

And thats what they are saying with this Balancing.
They say. Turrets are not supposed to be Used.

I just dont get why they dont just Remove Turrets and Bigger Ships from the Game alltogether.
What use does it have to use an Ship Costing 3 Million Credits to Rebuy. When your Combat Power is basicly the same as when using an Ship that Costs 30k Credits to Rebuy....

Gimballed != Turrets. Back when gimbals were one class less, we didn't even have turrets! Consider yourself blessed to have turrets!

 

[Sunleader]

I agreed with you that turrets are pretty awful for killing anything larger than an eagle. It is also quite ridiculous that you can have millions of credits worth of sensors that weigh 160 Tons and they can be negated by a 9000 credit chaff unit that weighs 1 ton.

The disagreement is with the secondary point of your topic, which seems to be to tell us how awful the clipper is and how awful turreted weapons on it. I am simply trying to point out that a Clipper is actually a very agile ship and is not meant to be used with turrets. It goes very well with gimballed weapons which are far from horrible (compared to turrets). Now, if you said Conda or Cutter or even Corvette in your examples then that would make a lot more sense and I would be more inclined to agree with you.

The thing making Corvettes Bad is the Turrets Mate.
As I said before.
An Clipper is far from Harmless.
But if two Equally Pilots Clash. One having a Cobra and one having a Clipper.
The Clipper will lose because he will be Outmaneuvered Fairly Easily.

Ultimately the Difference might not be that Big.
But its a Fact that Viper/Cobra are more Maneuverable than Clipper/Conda
So you wont get Fixed Weapons to Bear with your Clipper unless your Opponent is Significantly Less Skilled than you.
Meanwhile even an Significantly lower Skilled Pilot in a Cobra will bring his Fixed Guns to Bear against an Clipper or Conda.


The Turrets having proper Damage that actually Justifies their Price in Credits and Energy would solve this very Easily.
And would also Allow them to be Played like Corvettes and not like Oversized Fighters.

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Gimballed != Turrets. Back when gimbals were one class less, we didn't even have turrets! Consider yourself blessed to have turrets!

Why should I feel Blessed about having Turrets when they are as useful as your useless comments ?

 

[Ozram]

They aren't great, that's for sure, but I do keep one on my Python to keep target shields from regenerating while I'm trying to get the target on sight. It works well enough for that, but it could be slightly stronger without being OP, especially when you are giving up a class L fixed forward (or gimballed) weapon to do so. It doesn't make me as irate as some here, but certainly would be worth another pass by the devs. Hell, I'd be cool with the damage staying low (and completely obfuscated by chaff) so long as it the weapons stayed on target a bit more accurately.

 

[jay3141592]

The most Effective Weapon for your Vulture would be Class 3 Fixed Beam Laser with 30 DPS
The Class 3 Fixed Burst Laser with 25 DPS
Or the Class 3 Gimballed Beam Laser with 24 DPS

Gimballed Pulse Laser with 18 DPS is actually a bit more down the List...
The Gimballed Pulse Laser is however the most Energy Efficient Gimballed Weapon in the Game.
Which is why I am using it right now as well because despite my Massive Power Generator Size I am not really able to Power the Weapons I got if I use anything Bigger...

That is my point. The Vulture, for one, can't actually sustain firing the beams for as long as the pulses, affecting the actual damage dealt. Combine that with having to give up either shields or thrusters, and I don't see why I should pay 20x more credits for a weapon that's ultimately inferior. And, going back to the topic of this thread, the deal is significantly worse for turrets.

The weapons need some re-balancing.

 

[Sunleader]

They aren't great, that's for sure, but I do keep one on my Python to keep target shields from regenerating while I'm trying to get the target on sight. It works well enough for that, but it could be slightly stronger without being OP, especially when you are giving up a class L fixed forward (or gimballed) weapon to do so. It doesn't make me as irate as some here, but certainly would be worth another pass by the devs. Hell, I'd be cool with the damage staying low (and completely obfuscated by chaff) so long as it the weapons stayed on target a bit more accurately.

Yeah Mate. But thats exactly the Problem.
Your Turrets are barely able to Prevent Shield Regeneration
They dont actually cause Damage.
So you wont do anything unless you hit with Frontal Weaponry.

Which is Rubbish for an Corvette against Fighter.