Did they Change how the K Warrant scanner works??

[Jig Matrix]

I play on the xbox version of the game and when it was in GPP I distinctly remember that if someone was clean in a system and you k-warrant scanned them they would turn wanted if they had a bounty on them, thus allowing you to collect that bounty lawfully.

However if you do that now, they may be clean in the system, but if they have a huge bounty on them It doesn't change to wanted anymore? was this changed? or am I remembering wrong?

If it was changed. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT????

If it was never changed and Im insane. WHY IS IT LIKE THIS???

With how it is now. it gives no meaning to having a k-warrant scanner on a ship. Simply because if I'm tracking down a bounty, and I know that man has a bounty, By law i should not be penalized for tracking down a wanted criminal.

By K-warrant scanning them, this should also alert the system security (or whoever is in charge) that I know this man is wanted in a system and I am doing a Galactic Service by claiming these bounties even if the bounty is not in their system. Bounty Hunters in wild west times (and to be honest space is the wildest of the west) if you were actively hunting a bounty (watch django: unchained) even if it was a sheriff of the Local area, you were covered by a higher law because you were actively hunting a wanted criminal. /rant over/

TL;DR version: If I scan someone who has a bounty I should be able to get that bounty without harassment from local security because i am acting on a Higher Law.

Comments? Questions? Concerns? leave em below so we can discuss them.

 

[Sugarat]

Clean ships have never turned wanted as a result of a KWS.. you can claim the out of system bounties, but the ship remains clean in the current system, always has I'm afraid..

 

[DaveB]

I play on the xbox version of the game and when it was in GPP I distinctly remember that if someone was clean in a system and you k-warrant scanned them they would turn wanted if they had a bounty on them, thus allowing you to collect that bounty lawfully.

However if you do that now, they may be clean in the system, but if they have a huge bounty on them It doesn't change to wanted anymore? was this changed? or am I remembering wrong?

If it was changed. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT????

If it was never changed and Im insane. WHY IS IT LIKE THIS???

With how it is now. it gives no meaning to having a k-warrant scanner on a ship. Simply because if I'm tracking down a bounty, and I know that man has a bounty, By law i should not be penalized for tracking down a wanted criminal.

By K-warrant scanning them, this should also alert the system security (or whoever is in charge) that I know this man is wanted in a system and I am doing a Galactic Service by claiming these bounties even if the bounty is not in their system. Bounty Hunters in wild west times (and to be honest space is the wildest of the west) if you were actively hunting a bounty (watch django: unchained) even if it was a sheriff of the Local area, you were covered by a higher law because you were actively hunting a wanted criminal. /rant over/

TL;DR version: If I scan someone who has a bounty I should be able to get that bounty without harassment from local security because i am acting on a Higher Law.

Comments? Questions? Concerns? leave em below so we can discuss them.

How it's supposed to work (and has forever on the PC):

If a ship shows "clean" or "wanted" that is a purely local status, related to their standing with the local system authorities. If they show "lawless" you are in an anarchy. This LOCAL status is all that determines whether shooting them is a crime or not - Shooting a clean or unscanned ship will always be a crime according to the local authorities, if there are any (in an anarchy there aren't, or at least they don't care who gets shot in their space)

If they have a warrant for them elsewhere, a KWS will reveal it and allow you to claim it if you kill them, but the local authorities DONT CARE. Using one does not turn a locally clean ship wanted. If you want to claim those distant bounties on a loxally clean ship, you are still committing a crime in the local jusrisdiction by shooting at them.

ETA: the purpose of a KWS is to allow you to claim bounties on ships you find in an anarchy system or to increase your payout on ships that are locally wanted - after all, if they are marked as a criminal here, there's a decent chance they are also wanted elsewhere too and you won't get those additional payouts if you haven't used a KWS on them.

 

[Lightspeed]

TL;DR version: If I scan someone who has a bounty I should be able to get that bounty without harassment from local security because i am acting on a Higher Law.

Comments? Questions? Concerns? leave em below so we can discuss them.

As Sugarat is saying, the pilot you are scanning may not have any bounty in the system you are both in, hence he is not wanted.

But your KWS may reveal a fat bounty accumulated elsewhere. If you attack him to claim the bounty, you get a bounty for attacking a clean player in that system and risk the local police attacking you if they scan you. If you kill him, you can claim the bounty in the system or systems where has been issued.

This is the same as it has always been.

 

[Jig Matrix]

hmm... okay i guess im just remembering wrong... but upon finding this I don't like it how it is... because the KWS just has an "add credits to my kill" feature, when having that on your ship (sometimes ships having very little space for things) should mean its a career thing.

Like you need a mining lazer, refinery and cargo for mining, but for bounty hunting it just turns into "well lets see what falls into my lap" rather than "I've been hunting that man over 12 systems" type of thing.

thoughts?

 

[DaveB]

hmm... okay i guess im just remembering wrong... but upon finding this I don't like it how it is... because the KWS just has an "add credits to my kill" feature, when having that on your ship (sometimes ships having very little space for things) should mean its a career thing.

Like you need a mining lazer, refinery and cargo for mining, but for bounty hunting it just turns into "well lets see what falls into my lap" rather than "I've been hunting that man over 12 systems" type of thing.

thoughts?

If you're hunting a player with a bounty, the "hunting over 12 systems" thing is quite possible - you have to trail them until you catch them either in an anarchic system or one where they are locally wanted if you don't want a bounty on your own head for blowing them up. Unfortunately NPCs are not persistent over instances (a thing that several of us have asked FD to look at and hopefully change)

 

[Jig Matrix]

As Sugarat is saying, the pilot you are scanning may not have any bounty in the system you are both in, hence he is not wanted.

But your KWS may reveal a fat bounty accumulated elsewhere. If you attack him to claim the bounty, you get a bounty for attacking a clean player in that system and risk the local police attacking you if they scan you. If you kill him, you can claim the bounty in the system or systems where has been issued.

This is the same as it has always been.

I understand. To get my point across that I'm trying to make, lets look at how bounties work in the game with and without a KWS. then lets look at how we can change it for the better.

If we look at how Bounty Hunting In the game works without a KWS, it has an "anyone can hunt bounties" feel to it which is good. Because anyone can just say "I'm gonna grab this quick bounty before i dock up", thus giving you easy credits because the generic scan that your ship does lets you know if that man is an outlaw and gives you a monetary value for killing that man. Cool beans.

If we look at that same scenario with a KWS it changes just slightly. it goes from the line above to "alright how much extra money can i get". I also understand that the KWS was made for Lawless space. so that you Can get bounties even when there is no Law in that system. Bounties even without law?. Cool beans.

Now our K-warrant scanners cost anywhere from 13,000Cr up to 1 Million, which allows us to not only scan the local bounties but also all the other bounties in the galaxy. (everybody knows how KWS's work continue to the point)

So how can we change it for the better? Lets look at it in a political/role-play-ey type of view, the local security service has K-warrant scanners on their ships, but they just scan locally or specific to their faction. cool beans, they are the law in that system it makes sense. however. if we as players are allowed to scan GALACTIC records of ALL systems. then we would be on a higher operating level, law level, however you want to look at it. so with this in mind if locals come in and say "yep that mans clean" and we pop in scan and we know that they are a Galactic criminal with bounties across multiple systems, however they dont see that, We engage, destroy that ship and collect the bounty. locals go "HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOUR A CRIMINAL STOP" they scan your ship but because you popped in and "tracked that man across 12 systems" (like i said down there vvv) they see you have a k warrant scan of that vessel that is now in pieces, they should recognize "okay, you were engaging on a known criminal (because the KWS) your free to go". this makes sense in my mind.

TL;DR again we are operating on a Higher Law, a Higher Clearance level because we KNOW that person is WANTED and BY LAW we are cleared to engage WITHOUT penalties.

If you're hunting a player with a bounty, the "hunting over 12 systems" thing is quite possible - you have to trail them until you catch them either in an anarchic system or one where they are locally wanted if you don't want a bounty on your own head for blowing them up. Unfortunately NPCs are not persistent over instances (a thing that several of us have asked FD to look at and hopefully change)

As per the npc persistency. im confused how that works.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Local authorities aren't going to care about local bounties in other systems. The Federation will probably like NPCs/CMDRs with Empire bounties, so if they are clean locally, shooting them should be a crime.

 

[irongut]

hmm... okay i guess im just remembering wrong... but upon finding this I don't like it how it is... because the KWS just has an "add credits to my kill" feature, when having that on your ship (sometimes ships having very little space for things) should mean its a career thing.

Like you need a mining lazer, refinery and cargo for mining, but for bounty hunting it just turns into "well lets see what falls into my lap" rather than "I've been hunting that man over 12 systems" type of thing.

thoughts?

As a Bounty Hunter anything that adds extra credits to your kills is a required piece of equipment. However scans are shared so only one wing member needs to fit KWS, another could fit a Wake Scanner for following any targets that manage to escape or whatever.

 

[DaveB]

I understand. To get my point across that I'm trying to make, lets look at how bounties work in the game with and without a KWS. then lets look at how we can change it for the better.

If we look at how Bounty Hunting In the game works without a KWS, it has an "anyone can hunt bounties" feel to it which is good. Because anyone can just say "I'm gonna grab this quick bounty before i dock up", thus giving you easy credits because the generic scan that your ship does lets you know if that man is an outlaw and gives you a monetary value for killing that man. Cool beans.

If we look at that same scenario with a KWS it changes just slightly. it goes from the line above to "alright how much extra money can i get". I also understand that the KWS was made for Lawless space. so that you Can get bounties even when there is no Law in that system. Bounties even without law?. Cool beans.

Now our K-warrant scanners cost anywhere from 13,000Cr up to 1 Million, which allows us to not only scan the local bounties but also all the other bounties in the galaxy. (everybody knows how KWS's work continue to the point)

So how can we change it for the better? Lets look at it in a political/role-play-ey type of view, the local security service has K-warrant scanners on their ships, but they just scan locally or specific to their faction. cool beans, they are the law in that system it makes sense. however. if we as players are allowed to scan GALACTIC records of ALL systems. then we would be on a higher operating level, law level, however you want to look at it. so with this in mind if locals come in and say "yep that mans clean" and we pop in scan and we know that they are a Galactic criminal with bounties across multiple systems, however they dont see that, We engage, destroy that ship and collect the bounty. locals go "HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOUR A CRIMINAL STOP" they scan your ship but because you popped in and "tracked that man across 12 systems" (like i said down there vvv) they see you have a k warrant scan of that vessel that is now in pieces, they should recognize "okay, you were engaging on a known criminal (because the KWS) your free to go". this makes sense in my mind.

TL;DR again we are operating on a Higher Law, a Higher Clearance level because we KNOW that person is WANTED and BY LAW we are cleared to engage WITHOUT penalties.

NOPE. Remember the ED universe is a bit dystopian. There is no recognition of "higher law" only "whatever law the boss says goes in this star system" -= they may be tagged as "federal security service" but their pay comes from the local federation-aligned faction and THEIR laws are all they enforce.

As per the npc persistency. im confused how that works.

It doesnt. At all. That was the point. NPCs spawn anew every time you switch instances. If you follow the high wake of an NPC target, the odds are you won't find him in the next system because you will get a whole new set of NPC spawns and even if you find the "same" guy he will be a "new version" of him, with a new ship - none of the damage you did to him in your last encounter.

 

[Lightspeed]

In a way, it reflects real life. If I commit a speeding offence in one State in the United States, I incur a fine there but not in another state. My insurance claim does not go up unless I commit the "crime" in my home State. The "local" State authorities are not concerned about this kind of "crime" in another State.

Ok, it gets different if I shoot down the cops on the Highway with my lasers ... but I am trying to show an analogy here that's not so far from real life experience

 

[Red Anders]

I understand. To get my point across that I'm trying to make, lets look at how bounties work in the game with and without a KWS. then lets look at how we can change it for the better.

If we look at how Bounty Hunting In the game works without a KWS, it has an "anyone can hunt bounties" feel to it which is good. Because anyone can just say "I'm gonna grab this quick bounty before i dock up", thus giving you easy credits because the generic scan that your ship does lets you know if that man is an outlaw and gives you a monetary value for killing that man. Cool beans.

If we look at that same scenario with a KWS it changes just slightly. it goes from the line above to "alright how much extra money can i get". I also understand that the KWS was made for Lawless space. so that you Can get bounties even when there is no Law in that system. Bounties even without law?. Cool beans.

Now our K-warrant scanners cost anywhere from 13,000Cr up to 1 Million, which allows us to not only scan the local bounties but also all the other bounties in the galaxy. (everybody knows how KWS's work continue to the point)

So how can we change it for the better? Lets look at it in a political/role-play-ey type of view, the local security service has K-warrant scanners on their ships, but they just scan locally or specific to their faction. cool beans, they are the law in that system it makes sense. however. if we as players are allowed to scan GALACTIC records of ALL systems. then we would be on a higher operating level, law level, however you want to look at it. so with this in mind if locals come in and say "yep that mans clean" and we pop in scan and we know that they are a Galactic criminal with bounties across multiple systems, however they dont see that, We engage, destroy that ship and collect the bounty. locals go "HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOUR A CRIMINAL STOP" they scan your ship but because you popped in and "tracked that man across 12 systems" (like i said down there vvv) they see you have a k warrant scan of that vessel that is now in pieces, they should recognize "okay, you were engaging on a known criminal (because the KWS) your free to go". this makes sense in my mind.

TL;DR again we are operating on a Higher Law, a Higher Clearance level because we KNOW that person is WANTED and BY LAW we are cleared to engage WITHOUT penalties.



As per the npc persistency. im confused how that works.

This is what you want:

I commit a burglarly in the UK. The police in the UK want me. They issue an arrest warrant for me.

I don't fancy being arrested, so I leave the UK and fly to America.

When I arrive in America a policeman knows I committed a burglary in the UK. He then shoots me dead in the airport, despite the fact that I've not broken any US laws.

Any law enforcement body has a jurisdiction. We are not even law enforcement personnel in the game, we are literally bounty hunters.

Use my example above and say that you are also in the UK and you are aware I committed a crime there.

As a public spirited citizen you follow me to America and when I get off the plane, you shoot me dead. Then you wave your bounty hunter's pass around (which you made by cutting a star shape out of a piece of gold wrapping paper) and say 'It's OK officer, I am duly authorised to...'

That's the point where the cop shoots you because firstly you don't really have any jurisdiction at all, you're merely a self-appointed guardian of justice and secondly, although I haven't broken any US laws, you just murdered someone.

So in short, no. I think where you are going wrong is that you're thinking your decision to be a bounty hunter makes you the police in some way; it doesn't, it just makes you a well-intentioned mercenary.

 

[Grumpy181155]

Hi Red Anders - just a small thing but yellow text does not show up well on a white background and I think you will find there are many who can't read your comments........ myself included

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In a way, it reflects real life. If I commit a speeding offence in one State in the United States, I incur a fine there but not in another state. My insurance claim does not go up unless I commit the "crime" in my home State. The "local" State authorities are not concerned about this kind of "crime" in another State.

Ok, it gets different if I shoot down the cops on the Highway with my lasers ... but I am trying to show an analogy here that's not so far from real life experience

Take that analogy and refer it the world we live in. I can be a bank robber and wanted in America and live as a socially responsible citizen in China.

 

[Red Anders]

Hi Red Anders - just a small thing but yellow text does not show up well on a white background and I think you will find there are many who can't read your comments........ myself included

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Forum background is black for me, that was the default when I first looked at them and I never changed it. My bad. Edited.

Incidentally the main text is white for me, so I assume it's black for you or else you wouldn't have seen any of it...

 

[Grumpy181155]

Forum background is black for me, that was the default when I first looked that them and I never changed it. My bad. Edited.

Incidentaly the main text is white for me, so I assume it's black for you or else you wouldn't have seen any of it...

That is interesting because mine is black text on a white background and it may explain why there are some other posts I have been unable to read because the poster has used different coloured text.... At the time I thought why would you use a colour that does not stand out from the white background