Realistic Outfitting

[Asrar]

Hi FD Devs,

How About Making a more Realistic Outfitting Section ?
People here in the Forum are complaining about rediciolous fits and unrealistic comparison of ships and theyr roles.. like the Anaconda is a better Trader then the T9 because of ist internal Setup.. a python is medium and can carry more stuff then a t7 wich only can land on big.. the Courier can load more then the hauler and now even more hilarious the Viper mk 4 can haul more then a hauler.. and now it gets even more wierd.. the cobra mk4 can haul as much as the t6.

to even that out, a very simple solution Comes Handy... 3D Tetris.. as simple as possible and it adds way more playground for the Player.. a minigame that will bind Players to theyr ships and ist Setup even more then now.

And it adds more realistics to the game, what i think is what you want, since the Galaxy is as realistic as possible atm.. and gets even mor realistic with future Patches i think.

So 3D Tetris Build up :

Split in two sections :

Weapon Setup : is good as it is.. not more needed i guess.. the hardpoints are given and the weapons can be choosed.. no more to say i guess.

internal Setup : 3D Tetris with drag and drop. Holding right mouse button fix and spin the ship for 3D view.

The Fitting Monitor Switches to 3D view of the ship with transparenting the Ship out and focusing on the free internal space of the ship.
the free space is made of a 3D grid with blocks of 1x1x1m.

now Comes the clue.. Containers for example, Comes with also different sizes: small 2x1x1m / medium 4x2x2m / large 8x4x4m / Huge 16x8x8m
this leads to finnaly respectable Mission descriptions.. i mean if i read bring me 1ton of artwork makes me sick, but if it would be bring me a small Container that contains artwork would be great.
now you not calculating in tons anymore you calculating in m3. a small Container holds 2m3.. this would perfectly fit for a stasis Container made for slaves ;-)

for example hull reeinforcements could be placed as 1x1x1m blocks at the walls of the grid increasing the hull and the protection of the inner part of the ship

the modules like Powerplant, live supp, Frame drive etc. are highlighted in orange with a given size to be used.

i think the rest you can imagine... it gives so much more Options and more realistics to the game.. the cobra for example has a hight of about 8m.. the hull covers 1m on top and 1m on the bottom leaves 6m in height means 6 blocks in height .. then you have some parts that also consume place like the heat-vents, turbines and the fixed internals like powerplant etc.. leaves you to Play with max medium Containers to Play with etc etc..

i mean how its realized depends how you wanna set it up, its just an idea how the game could be even further improved in therms of realistics and Player playground..

here a vid of ship size comparison and then you would see that a python never can hold as much Cargo as the t7.. this flatfish just doesent have the height.. ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x08skupb8cc

what do you think community ? and please not just nonsence ;-)
Cheers

 

[Kisvakond]

True dat.
On the other hand, if all sci-fi were so detailed that it adds up nicely, there's would be no 'fi' part and we could just have those Pythons in real life.

Dimensions and weights was never used consistently in this regard, and scientifically, ship capacity could vary even depending on what you transport (1t of uranium occupies the fraction of the volume needed by 1t of fish).

The mini 3D tetris sounds similar to an RPG inventory, but for bigger ships, it could be a lot of time to do the logistics inside the cargo bay.

Ships that cost more should be usually superior in all aspects and IMHO this is reflected in the cargo space as well.
I think these inconsistencies are rather game balancing than scientific inaccuracies.

 

[Asrar]

but exactly this game balancing ppl want... a t6 frameship drive would take a lot of space, so as bigger your ship is as better your compnents get..
and the FDL would finnaly get a Little bigger drive since she is pretty big ;-)

and yes it would take some time to fit a ship.. thats exactly what a minigame is for.. i want to fit my ship, not only adding : ALL Class A in 20sec, put shieldgen on a shield bank and lets go to a res. or lets fly from Station to Station.
and yes a small Container would take 10tons of uranium.. but remember, your FSD and your maneuver is depending on weight of the ship.. so if you overload it.. well you suffer... this would lead that you finnally take some fish, some medicine, some other stuff with you as a Trader... not just 360tons Palladium, go Station A, 360tons supercoductors, go Station B.... sorry but trading is so senceless like this...

you want to kinda force the Player to minigame that he can enjoy... so i take 2 small Container for Palladium, 2 medium Container for bernadite, 2 large Container for fish, so i reach my 1800tonns for my FSD range i Need to get to the stations i can sell it..
as Trader you get way more Options like that.. and you have to have an eye how much of what you carry...

did you ever planned to load a Container ship... thats a freaking mess.. weight Distribution, safety Placements, unload and load Placements for the diff Harbors... here is Fill in Station A go to Station B sell and Fill... a bit more brain i like to use tbh ;-)

edit : and yeah the hauler would finnaly make any sence in the game... whos buying a hauler to haul ??? no one !! now you buy an vipMK4 or cob mk4.. for 1 kill in a res..

to get an an vip mk, you Need as newbee 5min.. you fly to a High res, wait until they Close to kill eachother, like a python and you fire the few last shot, get your 250k reward fly back, buy the vip mk4, fit 2 t4 Cargo and well within 5min you have a decent Trader... is that what you want ?? who the heck will buy a hauler when not for cheap travel between the owned ships and sell it after that ?

 

[Kisvakond]

I think most people here playing ED, are sim flyers rather than EVE MMO types. They would start raging if forced to play minigames.

However, I could imagine that your nominal cargo space is available as it is currently, but you can have some cargo overload (e.g. +5..10% bonus cargo space, -5..10% jump range) if you take your time to play tetris with your cargo cartridges.

For the cobra mk4, please note that you can only have it when you purchased ED and ED:H... Thus I can't have that ship to try out, but if it's OP compared to ED ships... P2W?????

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Cobra_MkIV

 

[Kisvakond]

...
to get an an vip mk, you Need as newbee 5min.. you fly to a High res, wait until they Close to kill eachother, like a python and you fire the few last shot, get your 250k reward fly back, buy the vip mk4, fit 2 t4 Cargo and well within 5min you have a decent Trader... is that what you want ?? who the heck will buy a hauler when not for cheap travel between the owned ships and sell it after that ?

There are youtube vids about that if they want a speed run. It's entirely up to the player if he just 'consumes' the game, or enjoys every little bit.
(I started by doing 31 jumps to Lave to make rare trading with just 6 tonnes... When my mates were coming to play, I helped them out with some catch-a-canister so they didn't have to travel all day just because they were born in LHS 3447. I see this initial grinding effort much worse than that 'last punch' tactic. But it's also a pain earning big credits in the hi-res zone, only to be destroyed by the very next ship returning fire.)

So, I would welcome an optinal minigame (for a bonus).

 

[Asrar]

I think most people here playing ED, are sim flyers rather than EVE MMO types. They would start raging if forced to play minigames.

However, I could imagine that your nominal cargo space is available as it is currently, but you can have some cargo overload (e.g. +5..10% bonus cargo space, -5..10% jump range) if you take your time to play tetris with your cargo cartridges.

For the cobra mk4, please note that you can only have it when you purchased ED and ED:H... Thus I can't have that ship to try out, but if it's OP compared to ED ships... P2W?????

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Cobra_MkIV

??? what game are you playing ??? ED is full of minigames... plz dont spam nonsence if you have no clue...
interdiction is a mini game, outfitting for Needs is a mini game, energy manament is a mini game, mining is a mini game, or do you consider laser 1 Piece of the rock to see whats in it, not as a mini game ? Docking is a mini game, module managment for overloading you powerplant is a mini game, atm even buying sidewinders for favorite Systems is a mini game... Shell i go on ?? Shooting rocks on planets for res is a mini game, reading the scanner for what res or Point of interest you heading is a mini game, so what mini game we have actually for real outfitting ? NONE.. dammnn not true, searching Station after Station that now have your A Class module you also can consider as mini game... storing your Powerplay weapons by buying 10 vipers and fit them with the Powerplay weapon so you can go on to the next power and wait 4 weeks, its not even mini its a big game..

and no your perhaps one of 0.1% that enjoyed learning the game without help from YouTube and raged when he got blown up in his hauler because he got interdicted...
Fitting your ship is like pimping your car... most have fun doing that and try to find the perfect fit to enjoy flying it with its own style... atm you just go A Rating and then you have the choice : Cargo space / fuel Setup / shield cells / hull tank.. Ahh yeah dont forget the miner and the limpits..

and yes the cob mk4 is a hauling joke.. but no smuggling joke.. having 80tonns of Cargo in it makes the hauler with what 16 tonns and btw same maneuv but awesome guns.. just a joke... but if you would have realistic Fitting Options the hauler would actually make sence for a trader until he can afford a type 6.. and the hauler would do a great Job.. i even have paintjobs for it ;-)

so plz if you dont have reasonable Argument to leave the Fitting as it is and not making it more interessting, then dont post and go buy your ship all class A in 20sec and its done.

edit : btw.. tetris was the most sold and played game as the Gameboy came out.. putting that blocks in the right order with the right tactics was hard to archieve and millions of People only bought a Gameboy because of that game.
same with solitaire.. btw solitair is the game that cost companies the most working hours... its a cazillion working hours lost per year just because of solitair.. only topped by Facebook untill most of the companies blocked that page.
its in the nature of us all to Play minigames ;-)
btw thats also the reason why in eve online the most downloaded additional Programm for it is : THE FITTING TOOL.. followed by the : MARKET TOOL.. so why working aginst nature ?? you loose if you dont follow the nature of the customer..

edit 2 : btw.. what outside game pages you think are loaded the most for ED ??? ED Shipyard and Coriolis Fitting... so many clicks, that FD actually should pay for the Service, if they not already doing ;-)

 

[Simon Darkstep]

I'd much rather see large components be containers for their constituent parts, much like how the vehicle hangar is now.

Sensors should be an avionics bay, and larger ones should hold better planetary and system scanners, or ECCM or the like, for example.

 

[Kisvakond]

so plz if you dont have reasonable Argument to leave the Fitting as it is and not making it more interessting, then dont post and go buy your ship all class A in 20sec and its done.

I think you're missing my point here.
For You, it's minigames everywhere. For me, it's simulation and some RPG elements everywhere. There's even an obscene joke just about that, I can tell you in PM if you're interested.

For most of the key minigames (-->your narrative) in ED, you always have a choice, like:
1. Interdiction --> evade, or sumbit/fail (then fight, negotiate or run) --> so much choices
2. Landing --> buy a docking computer (in case an ELITE player minds docking)
3. Energy management -> buy a bigger powerplant or turn off everything in a fight except lasers, shields etc. Again, you have a choice.
4. Mining, Hi-re bounty runs, any type of missions, you can decide if you do it or not. You can still play the game in a different role.
etc. etc.

My point was, that adding a mini-game where you don't have any choices to skip or gets you no rewards for completing it (apart from minimizing loss), makes players upset.
I liked the idea of playing tetris with cargo, but as an optional mini-game that gets you a bonus capacity. So players not interested can just skip it and have 10% less capacity.

I never argued against your idea, just mentioned that people should have a choice here as well, as in nearly every other 'minigames' ED has.

BR

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

The problem is that some internals don't scale like cargo.

A 1 Ton HRP gives 110 points of armor while a 16 Ton Class 4 gives 330, not 1760 like your model would.

Same with limpet controllers. A class 1 gives 1 limpet, and a class 5 gives 4. 32 Class ones would give you... 32 limpets at once.