A simple fix [semi fix] to combat logging!

[Nitek [pl]]

I can't post videos here [ that's why what I am writing is moderated now] so I will try to set up a scene here.
There are commanders in open who play only to win. They attack other players, get into fights and like to blow up commanders. They prey mostly on non pvp players because against pvp'ers most of the time they LOOSE.
What does a player like that do when he finds an equal or better match? HE LOGS OFF! I win - stay in open. I loose - I log off. Molest people near station - blow up people - GREAT! When a force comes in and almost destroys the culprit... LOG OFF!
Our group has a couple page document of combat loggers and the list is growing every day. There are numerous videos and unfortunately FD's response is below weak. I see known combat loggers every day. The only thing we can do
is to shun them by texting them in game. They laugh at reporting them to FD.

So if FD is unwilling to punish them directly let's have an idea here.

What if mode switching would be possible ONLY when in station/landed ? You want to switch mode - you need to be landed/srv whatever.
If you combat log in space - you have to wait before your enemy get's bored waiting for you or log in and get what you deserve.
Maybe it will not fix cheating entirely but would at least pose a nuisance for those who are willing to put risk on other commanders but never take the risk alone.

I know that people are combat logging on npc's to never die but this is another story which I never expect to be fixed.

 

[Mohrgan]

I find that most of the time CL'ing is misidentified by players. When you can log and not have it be CL'ing, is never considered, and the 15 second solution, can confuse things. The general reason the 15 second timer os there because FD recognizes that sometimes players just have to leave. Real life has to take priority over a game. If you can log out in space, you can change modes. That kind of puts a big hole in your sugggestion

Now, on to the core of the matter; Combat Logging doesn't happen through logging out. IT happens through stopping the client through an outside of the game source. Alt-F4, CTRL-Alt-Del, pulling the power or internet cable these are methods of real CL'ing. It does not happen when you ask the game to log out. So, if that is the case, your solution just limits non-exploitative Commanders to where and when they can log off. You suggestion would do nothing for the issue.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

I find that most of the time CL'ing is misidentified by players. When you can log and not have it be CL'ing, is never considered, and the 15 second solution, can confuse things. The general reason the 15 second timer os there because FD recognizes that sometimes players just have to leave. Real life has to take priority over a game. If you can log out in space, you can change modes. That kind of puts a big hole in your sugggestion

Now, on to the core of the matter; Combat Logging doesn't happen through logging out. IT happens through stopping the client through an outside of the game source. Alt-F4, CTRL-Alt-Del, pulling the power or internet cable these are methods of real CL'ing. It does not happen when you ask the game to log out. So, if that is the case, your solution just limits non-exploitative Commanders to where and when they can log off. You suggestion would do nothing for the issue.

Well surprisingly they have to "leave" when loosing yes?;] Surprisingly every time a combat logger starts to loose his baby starts to cry, his cat puked on the rug etc. Surprisingly.
My suggestion would put the logger BACK EXACTLY where he/she was before "leaving" :]

 

[dayrth]

There are so many threads about this, but this is a truly novel idea and could well be workable. Good show

 

[Badben]

Combat logging isn't a problem in this game, nor any game. Logging off at any moment is something that simply cannot be stopped, anyone can do it and it actually doesn't matter. You only think it matters because you think there is some kind of "honor" in the game, but there isn't, it's a video game and most people don't care what others in game think of them. Most people don't play video games to have a realistic experience, or play so that someone else gets their satisfaction. Most people who play video games do it to have fun, and getting blown up by other players is not fun for the most part in this game, it costs money and time and is very frustrating. If someone decides to turn off their game because they aren't having fun, that's their prerogative, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.

Your groups list of combat loggers is a really hateful idea. You are basically making a list of people who don't play the game you want them to play it, and trying to shame them for how they enjoy their hobby.

Combat loggers are not affecting your real life in any way other than the anger you are feeling towards them. So think of it like this, If I combat log, I have control over your emotions, I am able to infuriate you simply by not wanting to play anymore, I can make your day worse because you allow yourself to get angry about something that is beyond your control. you need to realize this is something you can't change and therefore you need to be at peace with it. It's like being angry at the rain, there is nothing you can do, so just relax and don't let it get to you.

I dislike it also when someone attacks me when I'm in a defenseless ship, it's not fair and it takes away from the fun of the game, but there's a really simple solution to this, combat logging. I don't care about what anyone else in this game world thinks of me, it's not important to be an honorable player, I have an actual life that is far more important to me.

I think you really need to realize that almost no one cares what you think of them and you need to take down that list right now.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

There are commanders in open...........They attack other players, get into fights and like to blow up commanders.

They do so because they can, because there is zero consequences for their actions.

Take away their incentive (operating in a zero-consequence environment) and the behaviour will cease.

Tackle the root cause of the issue and more often than not the consequences will resolve themselves.

 

[PeachSlices]

Combat logging isn't a problem in this game, nor any game. Logging off at any moment is something that simply cannot be stopped, anyone can do it and it actually doesn't matter. You only think it matters because you think there is some kind of "honor" in the game, but there isn't, it's a video game and most people don't care what others in game think of them. Most people don't play video games to have a realistic experience, or play so that someone else gets their satisfaction. Most people who play video games do it to have fun, and getting blown up by other players is not fun for the most part in this game, it costs money and time and is very frustrating. If someone decides to turn off their game because they aren't having fun, that's their prerogative, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.

No no no no no, did I say "NO" enough, one more ok.... wait for it.... NO.

This is false nay saying and total scrub talk.

To be clear Combat Logging is against the rules is anti fun, the fact that it isnt policed properly either with hard game logic or action by FDev doesnt make it "ok".

The choice is clear, play in open OR do not, there is no in between.

Your groups list of combat loggers is a really hateful idea. You are basically making a list of people who don't play the game you want them to play it, and trying to shame them for how they enjoy their hobby.

Again I think I can say it just once: No

Cheating is not a hobby, it is a game crime and is reportable and punishable.

 

[hunvagy]

How is restricting mode switching going to prevent combat logging pray tell? Just logging off and on will probably ensure that the player is put into a different instance in the same mode and "got away". Switching to a different mode does not factor into this at all.

 

[Mohrgan]

Well surprisingly they have to "leave" when loosing yes?;] Surprisingly every time a combat logger starts to loose his baby starts to cry, his cat puked on the rug etc. Surprisingly.
My suggestion would put the logger BACK EXACTLY where he/she was before "leaving" :]

Your contempt for CL'ers not withstanding, your idea won;t have the desired effect. If you can CL, leave the game with out logging out, you can come back in what ever mode you choose. The Instancing system has no guarantee that you both would again end up in the same instance. Now your solution does nothing to CL'ers, but makes it more difficult to leave the game for everyone else. It just won;t alter the behavior.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Hi CMDR Nitek

We spoke after my exploration Clipper got indiscriminately blown up by a certain CMDR as I was returning to Jameson Memorial.

Your idea seems very good, but I've found that I was switching modes during my various exploration journeys in the past. The reason for doing so was simple - most of the time there was no point in me playing in Open when I was 1000's of LY away from anyone else.

Then I switched modes to Open when I reached Sagittarius A*, where I met up with CMDR's Metta and Dogeh and had an enjoyable experience there.

So, your idea would not particularly work for players like myself, if we couldn't switch modes due to not being docked at a station/outpost

I'm in agreement with EddyRockSteady here...

They do so because they can, because there is zero consequences for their actions.

Take away their incentive (operating in a zero-consequence environment) and the behaviour will cease.

Tackle the root cause of the issue and more often than not the consequences will resolve themselves.

Indeed, there needs to be a lot of work put into crime and punishment in this game. Currently there are zero consequences for players who blow up less able players indiscriminately.

Perhaps FDEV could make release 2.2 a Crime & Punishment release, after they've finished their work on 2.1/Engineers. I suspect that won't happen though, unfortunately.

 

[CMDR Valleys]

Combat logging isn't a problem in this game, nor any game. Logging off at any moment is something that simply cannot be stopped, anyone can do it and it actually doesn't matter. You only think it matters because you think there is some kind of "honor" in the game, but there isn't, it's a video game and most people don't care what others in game think of them. Most people don't play video games to have a realistic experience, or play so that someone else gets their satisfaction. Most people who play video games do it to have fun, and getting blown up by other players is not fun for the most part in this game, it costs money and time and is very frustrating. If someone decides to turn off their game because they aren't having fun, that's their prerogative, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.

Your groups list of combat loggers is a really hateful idea. You are basically making a list of people who don't play the game you want them to play it, and trying to shame them for how they enjoy their hobby.

Combat loggers are not affecting your real life in any way other than the anger you are feeling towards them. So think of it like this, If I combat log, I have control over your emotions, I am able to infuriate you simply by not wanting to play anymore, I can make your day worse because you allow yourself to get angry about something that is beyond your control. you need to realize this is something you can't change and therefore you need to be at peace with it. It's like being angry at the rain, there is nothing you can do, so just relax and don't let it get to you.

I dislike it also when someone attacks me when I'm in a defenseless ship, it's not fair and it takes away from the fun of the game, but there's a really simple solution to this, combat logging. I don't care about what anyone else in this game world thinks of me, it's not important to be an honorable player, I have an actual life that is far more important to me.

I think you really need to realize that almost no one cares what you think of them and you need to take down that list right now.

Well put, it's a game, shame the CMDRs playing it this way can't organise themselves into a 5 a side conflict zone when they play. But your right, i wouldn't change the game set up, if I attack another Cmdr I do it to role play, I've their wanted in a system I'm working for but only when the controlling faction is one I support.

I would be interested if Frontier inter grate this type of play into the mission system... Bit like drop in battles in total war, you could generate a multi stage mission but in a very different way. B commits crime in system. A takes out contract to kill B, B's faction issue mission to protect A and issues a revenge mission to kill A. Even a bounty hunter mission system that would issue a live mission to kill a player who's wanted which is updated with the last docked station... Result game comes alive and you get PvP but at the player choice and adds to the story of supporting your faction.

PS this has been suggested a number of times, combat logging is then a failed mission for someone. No harm and there the reprocusions and players who get ridicules bounties in systems will have a make on them from every Cmdr who picks up the mission from the system.... I could become a bounty hunter.. Which I think a lot of peeps would.... Combat loging currently has a timer on it and if your unable to kill the ship before it logs out perhaps your target is above your ability to kill.

Thats my penny's worth

 

[Bortas]

What if mode switching would be possible ONLY when in station/landed ? You want to switch mode - you need to be landed/srv whatever.
If you combat log in space - you have to wait before your enemy get's bored waiting for you or log in and get what you deserve.

Very neat idea... In fact I have killed a few combat loggers who made the mistake of logging back into open after combat logging. while it would not completely solve the combat logging problem, it would at least make it a lot more inconvenient for the cheater as he could never be sure, if the other player is still waiting for him.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

There was once over a stickied Dev thread addressing Disco Cloggers where they stated it was something they were really concerned about and were looking into ways to resolve it. We were given a soundbite about they were gathering telemetry data from players clients etc etc etc. This was about a year ago and since then nothing has really changed other than the thread has been un-stickied and vanished and the forum become more hostile towards people who raise it as an issue whilst at the same time seem to excuse and condone the actions of the people who I personally think do the most damage to this game than any other group.

From the above and the obvious lack of action I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that its something that FDev either aren't that bothered about or have given up trying to fix. Nitek [pl] Triadius I agree with everything you wrote and think its a decent idea but falls down slightly when applied to genuine players (people waiting for landing pads at outposts for example, and possibly explorers wanting hi-res images etc etc).

 

[bootsam]

How would people log off if the were in Sag A?

 

[Bortas]

How would people log off if the were in Sag A?

They could still log off, just not change modes.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What if mode switching would be possible ONLY when in station/landed ? You want to switch mode - you need to be landed/srv whatever.
If you combat log in space - you have to wait before your enemy get's bored waiting for you or log in and get what you deserve.
Maybe it will not fix cheating entirely but would at least pose a nuisance for those who are willing to put risk on other commanders but never take the risk alone.

I know that people are combat logging on npc's to never die but this is another story which I never expect to be fixed.

Restricting mode switching to stations / landed on planets requires there to be suitable stations or planets available - this would prevent mode switching during exploration for players who do not own Horizons as they cannot land on planets and there are no stations out in the black. Given that there are no restrictions on mode switching, imposing a restriction would seem unreasonable at best.

A simpler way would require the player whose connection had been lost (for whatever reason) to rejoin the same mode as they left.

 

[Mohrgan]

They could still log off, just not change modes.

That is ridiculous. Combat Logging is in no way a big enough issue to limit the general population like that.

 

[Bortas]

Restricting mode switching to stations / landed on planets requires there to be suitable stations or planets available - this would kill exploration for players who do not own Horizons as they cannot land on planets and there are no stations out in the black.

Why must explorers switch modes while they are out exploring?

A simpler way would require the player whose connection had been lost (for whatever reason) to rejoin the same mode as they left.

Guess that would work, too.

That is ridiculous. Combat Logging is in no way a big enough issue to limit the general population like that.

Depends on the point of view... for non PvP players it is of course no issue. For PvP player it is a major, game breaking issue.

But Robert's suggestion would resolve such concerns elegantly enough.

 

[hunvagy]

Why must explorers switch modes while they are out exploring?

Because hi-res screenshots only work in PG and Solo, for instance. And apparently some explorers still would like to stay in Open and only switch when absolutely necessary. Could also imagine that during high server loads a solo or a PG of only the explorer party is a lot more stable the being in open, and from the standpoint of players tens of thousands of lightyears away it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[stripealipe]

I just don't think logging off should be available if you're taking hits from another player, simple as that.
Jump away and then log when in a safe zone, but no logging off option in a scenario where you're being fired upon and registering hits.

And if you do ALT-F4 or whatever, this should be logged on FDs end and then maybe correlated with a combat log report from a player and necessary action taken.
If it was innocent and no log has been submitted, nothing gets done. If it needs to be argued, due to unforseen circumstances such as power loss, fine. But if it keeps on happening, something is wrong and again should be dealt with.