Nitek [pl]
Banned
Yes PVP is unfair.
- Thread starter _Dastardly_
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Can all participants please refrain from attempts to discredit others opinions with requests / demands for "credentials" (any credentials offered could be fabricated after all....) - this practice is considered to be a form of baiting and will be dealt with accordingly.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I already have, I don't think you have read it, though.
High-sec = low profit/High police presence
Low-sec = High profit/Low to none police presence
And this idea isn't even original, it's been tossed around quite often.
Have to say that I mostly agree with the OP.
The key point is that the existing "meta", allows pirates (including players) to pretty much roam freely. How there is meant to be any level of effective business I have no idea.
Potential solutions:
- Sort out the Nav points. Mentioned elsewhere. These should be choke points into a system, such that a player drops into normal space on arrival in system. Have these policed and with a BIG mass lock on arrival, to enable the police to do there job. If a player wishes to go "in system" without using the Nav point, let them do it, but NOT as a wing and dropped in a random location, say 10-300LS from the primary star. This would enable easier policing and will also have military implications at a later date
- As suggested elsewhere, let PLAYERS be police. I see now reason why there couldn't be a local police group, and then say a Federation, or Imperial Police, who can roam elsewhere. Take is a stage further and introduce ranks, so that a player has to rank up to get free reign throughout manned space and thus allowed to roam anywhere. For the police, give them better access to locations on high bounty players, e.g. have the Nav points log player locations and broadcast it to the police.
- Personal opinion, but also maintain bounties on a player, regardless of whether they self destruct in a Sidewinder until they've actually PAID the bounty. For that, I'm conscious that the bounties really aren't enough. Increase them such that they're say the insurance cost of a destroyed vessel (that wasn't wanted) + 10% for handling fees.
Do the above, and the space lanes would be substantially cleaner and safer.
Would also help enable some of the ability that we should have against the aliens.
The key point is that the existing "meta", allows pirates (including players) to pretty much roam freely. How there is meant to be any level of effective business I have no idea.
Potential solutions:
- Sort out the Nav points. Mentioned elsewhere. These should be choke points into a system, such that a player drops into normal space on arrival in system. Have these policed and with a BIG mass lock on arrival, to enable the police to do there job. If a player wishes to go "in system" without using the Nav point, let them do it, but NOT as a wing and dropped in a random location, say 10-300LS from the primary star. This would enable easier policing and will also have military implications at a later date
- As suggested elsewhere, let PLAYERS be police. I see now reason why there couldn't be a local police group, and then say a Federation, or Imperial Police, who can roam elsewhere. Take is a stage further and introduce ranks, so that a player has to rank up to get free reign throughout manned space and thus allowed to roam anywhere. For the police, give them better access to locations on high bounty players, e.g. have the Nav points log player locations and broadcast it to the police.
- Personal opinion, but also maintain bounties on a player, regardless of whether they self destruct in a Sidewinder until they've actually PAID the bounty. For that, I'm conscious that the bounties really aren't enough. Increase them such that they're say the insurance cost of a destroyed vessel (that wasn't wanted) + 10% for handling fees.
Do the above, and the space lanes would be substantially cleaner and safer.
Would also help enable some of the ability that we should have against the aliens.
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I am in support of the idea, but unfortunately it seems the developers dislike the idea of a choke point.
The reason why there hasn't been a uprising in community policing is because people make escapes into private group/solo. (Looking after themselves instead of standing together as a community, which is rational, caused by FD's design)
Thats exactly what I was saying in the first place. As someone once said 'There are no new ideas'... the same idea is in place in many other games because it makes sense.
So basically your view of open : screw anything PVE as there is no point having a ship not outfitted for PVP. Never use a T6 or an hauler or anything not fit for heavy combat, as the game here is "I'm a psychopath in 100% anarchy systems". Of course, if you want to test your pvp abilities you could just play CQC but then again, it might not be as easy as shooting an unarmed trader with your FDL because of "the warm glow of ships going pop"
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Virtual impossibility due to FD's instancing mechanic.
It is unfair - to me.
I'm at the CG and have been killed FOUR times now by players and am 20+ mil down on rebuys.
To be fair I went after the same guy twice after he interdicted & wiped me, even though I know I'm rubbish, but hey ho chipping away!
I've got about 20 rebuys left before I call it quits...
I'm at the CG and have been killed FOUR times now by players and am 20+ mil down on rebuys.
To be fair I went after the same guy twice after he interdicted & wiped me, even though I know I'm rubbish, but hey ho chipping away!
I've got about 20 rebuys left before I call it quits...
Hmm you are mistaken Fang. Perhaps some may feel the way you describe PvE, however myself I PvE not because I fear pvp with a better flyer, but because I did not buy this game for pvp. I bought it for pve. I have plenty and I mean plenty of pvp games. I bought it as a relaxing game whereby I could just do my own thing in my own time. I am more than happy to enter pvp with any code member in BF4/CSGO/CoD etc. Its horses for courses Fang. I suspect there are a great many like me in Mobius/Solo.
In proper pvp games, I am alert and bang on 100% deathkillcon 5. All the time. For the duration. I kill and knife everyone mercilessly. Its full on, check your 6 and flanks, strafe and attack. When I feel like this kind of game I play it. When I don't, I play something else. This. I chill to BBC R6 and just faff around.
I do understand the difficulties pvp has in this game and its frustrations for you. But this is not a traditional pvp game. Its somewhere inbetween and neither one nor the other. If you are playing open and you are pvp'd in a full t9, then you must accept that. I agree with the open pvp players assertions that it is part of the game. Although the noob killing I find distasteful. Thats just spawn and even in proper mp games thats seen as bad news and likely to get you kicked and banned from the server.
But your two cases are overly simplistic and you can pretend to be germane all you like but please do not ignore all the other possibilities because they do not fit your reasoning. There are thousands and thousands of players and each has a differing reason to play the way they do. I accept your pvp in open. I have no truck with it, other than the occasional dodgy role-play, which I accept may only be dodgy to me. I accept open pvp 100%. I just don't play it.
I prefer Mobius. I can faff around and do my own thing and say hi to CMDR's and enter some easy going pve with them or not. I have a choice. But when I want to shoot someone and pvp grief them, I play BF4 and I can be quite the nemesis there.
Its horses for courses Fang. I suspect there are a great many like me in Mobius/Solo. In proper pvp games, I am alert and bang on 100% deathkillcon 5. All the time. For the duration. I kill and knife everyone mercilessly. Its full on, check your 6 and flanks, strafe and attack. When I feel like this kind of game I play it. When I don't, I play something else. This. I chill to BBC R6 and just faff around.
I do understand the difficulties pvp has in this game and its frustrations for you. But this is not a traditional pvp game. Its somewhere inbetween and neither one nor the other. If you are playing open and you are pvp'd in a full t9, then you must accept that. I agree with the open pvp players assertions that it is part of the game. Although the noob killing I find distasteful. Thats just spawn and even in proper mp games thats seen as bad news and likely to get you kicked and banned from the server.
But your two cases are overly simplistic and you can pretend to be germane all you like but please do not ignore all the other possibilities because they do not fit your reasoning. There are thousands and thousands of players and each has a differing reason to play the way they do. I accept your pvp in open. I have no truck with it, other than the occasional dodgy role-play, which I accept may only be dodgy to me. I accept open pvp 100%. I just don't play it.
I prefer Mobius. I can faff around and do my own thing and say hi to CMDR's and enter some easy going pve with them or not. I have a choice. But when I want to shoot someone and pvp grief them, I play BF4 and I can be quite the nemesis there.
I can't say I disagree with the sentiment behind this.
I did think that one of the great things about ED, was that there's a whole bunch of different things that can be done in game as it supports that.
Right now, IMO it's too combat focused as it's just too dangerous to use say a dedicated trade ship. I'm not even a trader, but I understand the implications for them, and the existing state of player just feels wrong.
Let's hope that the expected aliens will give the PVP players something new to shoot at that might be a challenge.
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I don't agree.
Surely the point here is that a player doesn't like being ganked by a PVP player in Open Play?
If other players were police, how long would it be before the ganker get's bored of being chased into solo play?
Are these the same people that tell us to "become imaginative" and "go play a different game if you dont think ED is perfect"?
Also, take all mah REP good sir!
This ^ - I'd be happy with system security status meaning something, i.e. a stronger, weaker system security forces response so there was risk/reward. We'd also have to do away with solo and private group - coz there wouldn't be any need for it.
Players not being visible to one another wouldn't help the games claim to be multiplayer or an mmo. In fact the game would appear very dull and empty for those expecting to play the game with other people.
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The reason PvP sucks is because the developers created mechanics with obviously superior options. Submit and high wake is objectively better than not, heat sinks HRP and a FAS are objectively better than not, pirating in a wing is objectively better than not, killing the defenseless is objectively better than not. There's little option but to do these things in most situations, if you don't want to be forced into that free Sidewinder.
The point is that it's almost impossible for people and friends to meet up in the same instance all of the time. People who are getting attacked will not be able to get guaranteed help from player police due to FD's instancing mechanic.
With a decent NPC police force you are guaranteed help 100% of the time.
With a player police force you are guaranteed help 1% of the time.
I know which one I prefer.
In my eyes, the biggest problem in this situation is how security works in this game. It seems like there is no, or almost no difference between security levels, and how the AI respond to violent actions.
Few months back, during one of CG, and because of some pirate actions, i bought sidewinder and spent some time in SC, cca 50 min, just watching how security respond to wanted ships that were hunting other players. It was a medium security system and security was doing almost nothing, they were able to sit there, doing what they do, flying back to station without any consequence, and in my eyes this is the core of our problem. How security works.
I have absolutely no problem shooting other players, but there should be consequence for pirates, based on security level, and goverment in the systems. Maybe even to level, where they are being actively chased by security, and not just by vipers, but by far bigger ships, when they do this repeatidly, for example like when you pick smuggling missions, and you are being chased over and over again. Maybe even introduce lets say extreme security systems, for example like Sol or Achenar, or other high profile systems.
On the other side, in no or low security systems, you can do almost everything you want, without consequence, and than you can watch on forums, how people stupidly cry here, how there are griefers and so on.
Lower profit for high security systems? I dont think thats the way we should go.
And i basically i disagree with OP ideas completely, but i really think reworking security should be hight priority for ED, and if it they sort this thing, we will see less and less stupid thread about griefers, and how people are ruining their fun. The PvP will still be active, but we will have some order and logic behind security and goverment in systems.
Few months back, during one of CG, and because of some pirate actions, i bought sidewinder and spent some time in SC, cca 50 min, just watching how security respond to wanted ships that were hunting other players. It was a medium security system and security was doing almost nothing, they were able to sit there, doing what they do, flying back to station without any consequence, and in my eyes this is the core of our problem. How security works.
I have absolutely no problem shooting other players, but there should be consequence for pirates, based on security level, and goverment in the systems. Maybe even to level, where they are being actively chased by security, and not just by vipers, but by far bigger ships, when they do this repeatidly, for example like when you pick smuggling missions, and you are being chased over and over again. Maybe even introduce lets say extreme security systems, for example like Sol or Achenar, or other high profile systems.
On the other side, in no or low security systems, you can do almost everything you want, without consequence, and than you can watch on forums, how people stupidly cry here, how there are griefers and so on.
Lower profit for high security systems? I dont think thats the way we should go.
And i basically i disagree with OP ideas completely, but i really think reworking security should be hight priority for ED, and if it they sort this thing, we will see less and less stupid thread about griefers, and how people are ruining their fun. The PvP will still be active, but we will have some order and logic behind security and goverment in systems.
Don't know how it's a design faux pas to be able to identify fellow Pilot's Federation members. =]
Funny, I've been playing from the very beginning and never had any probs. Long time ago I was chased and serially interdicted, cauight with my pants down, by a much larger force and managed to give them the slip and not by high waking either. I got to the station and reflected upon how much fun and exhillerating it was. Sense of accomplishment means more if there is something to lose.
You must have been dreaming.
Except for the last arbitrary point I agree with everything else.