Yes PVP is unfair.

[_Dastardly_]

Open mode is all encompassing, PvP is a part of that. People will have to prepare for it. People can make pure PK groups/PvE groups, but to make Open either PvP alone or PvE alone is silly.

Ah but we get back to the point of the thread. Open should be Open. But if it's going to BE open. Then it has to be fair, thought out and have gameplay mechanics that make sense are dont drive people away.

I'm not saying stop PVP'ers attacking and/or killing people. But there should be consequences for their actions. Just as there should be consequences for the trader that flies without shields etc.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Ah but we get back to the point of the thread. Open should be Open. But if it's going to BE open. Then it has to be fair, thought out and have gameplay mechanics that make sense are dont drive people away.

I'm not saying stop PVP'ers attacking and/or killing people. But there should be consequences for their actions. Just as there should be consequences for the trader that flies without shields etc.

Hence why we are discussing balancing around that, yes.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Open mode is all encompassing, PvP is a part of that. People will have to prepare for it. People can make pure PK groups/PvE groups, but to make Open either PvP alone or PvE alone is silly.

Open is NOT all encompassing if you are MARGINALISING players and obliging them to join Mobius?
Surely you can see that. Mobius exists as a direct RESPONSE to some of the playerbase wishing to working in a co-operative and non-confrontational manner.
Just by the scope of their rules, it's totally obvious about the driver for it's existence.

So let me ask you this again, how can you justify defending the marginalising of a group of players as big as Mobius, because that's clearly what you're trying to defend has done.
Who are you to say that players can't play cooperatively in Open, purely because you're defending the "right" to obliterate a traders ship?

So please, get off your high horse, have some respect for some of the rest of the player base and take it elsewhere, or at least justify in an objective manner why your approach is the correct one for "open". I'll say again that the easy way to justify is sheer numbers. Create a group that's as large as Mobius, and I'll say you're right. Otherwise, you're just an offensive minority of the playerbase.

 

[_Dastardly_]

Hence why we are discussing balancing around that, yes.

And no part of that should be 'go to another mode'. Open should be self contained and balanced.

 

[KellyR]

You want fair in PvP? I don't want fair. I want as much advantage as I can get. And if you don't want the same, you're doing it wrong. If you and me are in a gunfight, I want to have an automatic while you have a semi-automatic. Fair? Please. Of course I don't really consider a combat ship killing an unarmed or lightly armed trader to be PvP. Sure, technically, but in reality, it's just slaughter. People seem to forget that this is Elite Dangerous. It's not Elite Safe or Elite Carebear. I've been killed in so called PvP. I'd call it slaughter, but hey, whatever. I didn't come on here and complain about it. I went after the one who took me out. And he killed me again; in actual PvP cause I was shooting back at him. He probably had the advantage in ship build (don't know for sure). I know he had the advantage in skills. Was that fair? No way. So what. 2 rules. 1: There are no rules. 2. If there's an infraction, refer to rule 1.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Fold

Thank-you for the clarification. Respect restored.

 

[GluttonyFang]

And no part of that should be 'go to another mode'. Open should be self contained and balanced.

Well, people should choose which mode is best suited for their play style. I want to see random killing pulled in line to preserve what Open is about.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Hence why we are discussing balancing around that, yes.

The cart cannot pull the horse.

In other words, you need an established foundation consisting of, as said above, a fair system with sensible gameplay mechanics before you can even hope to have a reasoned discussion regarding balancing.

At the moment FD have completely missed the boat regarding fair, sensible gameplay mechanics. Heck, all these threads are ample evidence therefore. And the saddest thing is that the threads keep coming and keep coming, met with deafening silence from FD.

Tell you what, Open Play should be THE flagship mode for FD and Elite Dangerous. It should encompass all that is good about the game, the vision they strived for. Instead we sit with the residual effects of a weekend at Blackpool........ Little wonder for the great divide between modes.

 

[KellyR]

And no part of that should be 'go to another mode'. Open should be self contained and balanced.

Sorry. Open can't be balanced. There are always going to be those who are stronger than others. It could be more balanced than it is with higher bounties and therefore legacy fines but there will never be a completely balanced playing field. Maybe if this were Elite Safe we could have such balance, but not in Elite Dangerous. But if you become wanted you can't dock at any station controlled by the authority that issued the warrant until the bounty expires.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Thank-you for the clarification. Respect restored.

<3 <3 <3

I am not as unreasonable as many people would like to think I am

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The cart cannot pull the horse.

In other words, you need an established foundation consisting of, as said above, a fair system with sensible gameplay mechanics before you can even hope to have a reasoned discussion regarding balancing.

At the moment FD have completely missed the boat regarding fair, sensible gameplay mechanics. Heck, all these threads are ample evidence therefore. And the saddest thing is that the threads keep coming and keep coming, met with deafening silence from FD.

Tell you what, Open Play should be THE flagship mode for FD and Elite Dangerous. It should encompass all that is good about the game, the vision they strived for. Instead we sit with the residual effects of a weekend at Blackpool........ Little wonder for the great divide between modes.

Flag system was discussed by the developers, but they rejected it for some reason, I forgot. But I think I get why they do it, which is why it's more productive to talk about how to balance out the more hostile interactions of random player killing. Yes it's a part of the game, but it needs some consequences more severe than what we currently have. Hence why I made suggestions in earlier portion of this thread.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

You want fair in PvP? I don't want fair. I want as much advantage as I can get. And if you don't want the same, you're doing it wrong. If you and me are in a gunfight, I want to have an automatic while you have a semi-automatic. Fair? Please. Of course I don't really consider a combat ship killing an unarmed or lightly armed trader to be PvP. Sure, technically, but in reality, it's just slaughter. People seem to forget that this is Elite Dangerous. It's not Elite Safe or Elite Carebear. I've been killed in so called PvP. I'd call it slaughter, but hey, whatever. I didn't come on here and complain about it. I went after the one who took me out. And he killed me again; in actual PvP cause I was shooting back at him. He probably had the advantage in ship build (don't know for sure). I know he had the advantage in skills. Was that fair? No way. So what. 2 rules. 1: There are no rules. 2. If there's an infraction, refer to rule 1.

And that's an opinion I respect.
However, there's a place and a time for everything and whilst you might consider that OK, a good deal of the playerbase does NOT conform to the same view. You might not mind be "slaughtered", but a good deal of the playerbase signed up to fly to the stars, see the sights, drive around on new worlds and HELP each other.
Shouldn't you respect their wishes too?

For example, within mobius there's the option of DELIBERATELY picking a fight at specific locations, basically having a duel. What's wrong with that? You still get a fight, but won't be losing hours worth of player to a player who's woken up in a bad mood.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Sorry. Open can't be balanced. There are always going to be those who are stronger than others. It could be more balanced than it is with higher bounties and therefore legacy fines but there will never be a completely balanced playing field. Maybe if this were Elite Safe we could have such balance, but not in Elite Dangerous. But if you become wanted you can't dock at any station controlled by the authority that issued the warrant until the bounty expires.

It's not about balancing between ships to make them equal, it's more about penalizing those shooting for no apparent reason.

Yes, some are going to be stronger than others, but this strength shouldn't be expressed in pure "lololol I blow you up for no reason and there's no consequence" kind of way.

 

[Muetdhiver]

You want fair in PvP? I don't want fair. I want as much advantage as I can get. And if you don't want the same, you're doing it wrong. If you and me are in a gunfight, I want to have an automatic while you have a semi-automatic. Fair? Please. Of course I don't really consider a combat ship killing an unarmed or lightly armed trader to be PvP. Sure, technically, but in reality, it's just slaughter. People seem to forget that this is Elite Dangerous. It's not Elite Safe or Elite Carebear. I've been killed in so called PvP. I'd call it slaughter, but hey, whatever. I didn't come on here and complain about it. I went after the one who took me out. And he killed me again; in actual PvP cause I was shooting back at him. He probably had the advantage in ship build (don't know for sure). I know he had the advantage in skills. Was that fair? No way. So what. 2 rules. 1: There are no rules. 2. If there's an infraction, refer to rule 1.

Sure, sure.

But I can guarantee you that if you take your fancy gun in a town and start shooting delivery trucks, there would be serious consequences.
In Elite, there are none for such behaviours. You can go in Sol, start murdering everthing left and right and not get disturbed by anything serious.
Go next system and you clean. That is just too silly.

It should be : lolol I killed 8 traders today in high sec system, one lost 20M. Oh... I'm now wanted in a 100Lyr radius and there is a wing of 5 elite SWAT FDL's after me that will not let go
for weeks. What ? Pilot federation ask me to pay for the damage done to said trader or they void my insurance ? Now, that would be consequences. Not like a 6K bounty.

I'm all for anarchy and bloodshed in, you know anarchy systems. Not, every system.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Strikes me that "Open" should support the needs of the majority. .

Needs of the majority? What?

Last time I checked Mobius was 15k or so members out of a million sold. You seem to be mistaken.

 

[Jockey79]

... but I did gain the support of consent to not invade modes.

Really, because it was 24 hours after the barnacles were discovered, there were PvP'ers in Mobius, killing anyone going near them.
Also, I recall AFTER your little "no invading" there were those Code members that "mistakenly" (pfft) invoked PvP in a RES, because they "thought" (pfft) RES were included in the CZ rules.
Oh and those ones that sat RAM griefing, and of course the one you distance yourself from - Maj and his mate.

These are just the Codes ones above - ones you know well about. So saying people can mode switch to avoid PvP when you know full well that is rubbish - is plain lying.
Let alone other independent PvP'ers who refuse to leave others alone. People who have left Open mode to avoid PvP then get it forced on them in their private groups.

I like how you know you cannot defend your group or other like minded players so you call the facts "stereotyping".
Pointing out the actions of PvP'ers is not stereotyping, it is shining a light on their actions your trying to dismiss/hide.
Which I'd not have done, if you had not told such a whopper. If you want to defend Open PvPvE, do it honestly at least.

As for Open PvPvE Mode, I have no problems with it. I think it should be left as it is, but that is my opinion - I'm not going to try and spin a web of deceit to defend Open PvPvE, as there is no need to do that.
As it currently stands, Open PvPvE is what DBOBE wants. It is how FD envisioned the game and how they will keep it.
People need to learn and be mindful of the modes they play in - and change their play styles in accordance with the mode they are in, while remembering there is no multiplayer PvE mode here.

 

[KellyR]

Sure, sure.

But I can guarantee you that if you take your fancy gun in a town and start shooting delivery trucks, there would be serious consequences.
In Elite, there are none for such behaviours. You can go in Sol, start murdering everthing left and right and not get disturbed by anything serious.
Go next system and you clean. That is just too silly.

I'm all for anarchy and bloodshed in, you know anarchy systems. Not, every system.

I do agree that the bounties should be bigger. And I do think that there should be galactic power warrants for some crimes. Like 25,000 cr bounty in Empire. You might be able to go to the next system over and not be wanted, but only if it is an independent system or has independent stations. Or maybe you're near the border and the next system over is a Fed system. The Feds aren't going to care what you did in the Empire.

I have no idea why they don't have galactic power bounties. That truly doesn't make sense.

 

[TomP]

Really, because it was 24 hours after the barnacles were discovered, there were PvP'ers in Mobius, killing anyone going near them.
Also, I recall AFTER your little "no invading" there were those Code members that "mistakenly" (pfft) invoked PvP in a RES, because they "thought" (pfft) RES were included in the CZ rules.
Oh and those ones that sat RAM griefing, and of course the one you distance yourself from - Maj and his mate.

These are just the Codes ones above - ones you know well about. So saying people can mode switch to avoid PvP when you know full well that is rubbish - is plain lying.
Let alone other independent PvP'ers who refuse to leave others alone. People who have left Open mode to avoid PvP then get it forced on them in their private groups.

I like how you know you cannot defend your group or other like minded players so you call the facts "stereotyping".
Pointing out the actions of PvP'ers is not stereotyping, it is shining a light on their actions your trying to dismiss/hide.
Which I'd not have done, if you had not told such a whopper. If you want to defend Open PvPvE, do it honestly at least.

As for Open PvPvE Mode, I have no problems with it. I think it should be left as it is, but that is my opinion - I'm not going to try and spin a web of deceit to defend Open PvPvE, as there is no need to do that.
As it currently stands, Open PvPvE is what DBOBE wants. It is how FD envisioned the game and how they will keep it.
People need to learn and be mindful of the modes they play in - and change their play styles in accordance with the mode they are in, while remembering there is no multiplayer PvE mode here.

And this should be the end of it. But it won't be.

 

[MottiKhan]

Something - something "Mobius" - stopped reading.

If people are going PvP in Mobius, it's easy to get away from that too. Just make your own private group and invite your friends to play there. You can always go back to Mobius later if you want.

Like it's been said before, nobody is forcing anyone into PvP. Any time you have player contact, you expose yourself to the potential. If you're afraid of stranger danger, don't expose yourself.

 

[_Dastardly_]

And this should be the end of it. But it won't be.

Why should this be the end of it? Because you want it to be?

Discussion on the forums is what they are for, There are many examples of changes made by Frontier after suggestions from players, we are their biggest development resource. Dont think that things wont change just because you dont want them to change.

 

[bootsam]

Mobius is 18.5k and growing. PvP proponents appear to believe they own open and that open = pvp. No open means pvp may be possible. It doesnt mean, hey its open pew pew everything. Some people want to be PvE in open. But alas they are being marginalised by a vocal minority. Despite Fangs assertions and those of the lesser informed and less capable pvp proponents on here. However its not Fangs fault, despite everything. Thats just the way the game has meandered without any controls from FD. It favours pvp in open and discriminates against pve in open. Thats just the way it is.