And PvP people don't force those that don't want to participate in PvP to participate in PvP. Modes are there to avoid PvP, mechanics exist that help people to completely avoid PvP even in a PvP environment. This argument is going nowhere.
Yes PVP is unfair.
- Thread starter _Dastardly_
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And PvP people don't force those that don't want to participate in PvP to participate in PvP. Modes are there to avoid PvP, mechanics exist that help people to completely avoid PvP even in a PvP environment. This argument is going nowhere.
A question for yourself if I may.
Imagine someone put together a new group called say "Open PvP combat", which advocated full combat with anyone, meaning that people would be only too well aware of the implications of playing in that group.
Would you join?
Strikes me that maybe what we should be doing is focusing on "Open" supporting the wants of the many.
So maybe what we should have is a private group setup for full on combat, and then compare how many join that, when compared to Mobius. Whoever has the most members gets the say of what goes in Open. Sound sensible?
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Re-read my original post, it was not an argument, it was a thought experiment, How would a PVP player feel if they were forced to engage in mining. Every time you interdict a trader you're doing that to them. And yes.. PVP people do force people to engage in PVP.
OPEN is not 'PVP mode' it's open. People go to open because there's more people in Open..not just because they specifically want to engage in Pvp
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I'd definately join that.. In my PVP fit ship (and yes I'd probabily die.. but I'd be prepared for it and a willing participant). In fact I do that already. In CQC.
It defeats the purpose of Open, it's the idea where people can do whatever they want but need to prepare for whatever other people might do against people.
I don't like it when a FDL drops in on me then fire when I'm mining in a Python. I suck it up and run. I didn't ask to be interrupted, it happens without some sort of script.
I don't like it when a pair of idiots are station ramming in Leesti or interdicting people randomly in super cruise and try to boil people up for no reason. I deal with it, sneak in or call my friends in to help.
But at the same time I realize that these players that are interfering with me are having fun and playing the game just as I am and within the confinement of the game rules. The argument of "not wanting to become someone else's content" in Open mode is asinine. It's a conceited anti-social notion that seemingly justifies anti-social behaviors. Ironically people claim that the cause of this argument is other players' anti-social behaviors.
PvP is not just player combat interaction, it's interacting with other players, things can turn hostile, and can turn out friendly.
One might make a friend, or an enemy.
But to complain about the environment the moment things don't go in the way one desires, is equivalent to the naive complaint in life about its unpredictability.
I don't think your thought experiment is a good one, I'm afraid. I am not a PvP player, yet I do play in Open Mode. After hundreds of hours clocked up, I have had exactly three PvP encounters. All that happens is instead of an NPC interdicting you, it is a player. NPC's cannot force one to do mining, but they can and do interdict one on a regular basis.
As any of the Pirates contributing to this thread will confirm, ED provides the tools for any sensible and competent Commander to flee the encounter. It's not as if a player interdiction inevitably leads to a fight. The same is true of NPC's.
That is an ill-made parallel, mechanics exist for trader to completely evade and avoid engagement. Therefore equivalently, PvP players can easily disengage from "mining."
Open is where everything can occur, meaning one must be prepared for everything that can happen. That includes PvP, if one does not want to accept that, leave Open, it's not for said individual.
Or implement the flag system already.
In terms of being in Open mode, clicking it means one consent to potential PvP.
Really? Can't say I agree.
Strikes me that "Open" should support the needs of the majority.
I get that a "group" (did consider saying a minority, but I don't think we actually know that do we).
For those in favour of open meanig PvP, what's the issue of asking you to join a PvP dedicated environment? Surely you don't feel marginalised by the suggestion, as if you did, you wouldn't have suggested it as a suitable mechanic for the non-PvP players.
Let me take this a step further and say that maybe open should mean "cooperative". PvP by it's nature is a purely destructive element and frankly a counter-productive element within human society to the expansion of the race to other areas of space.
So, please, PvPers, go create your own group and see how you get on.
I recall some well dressed feller complaining about traders being able to high wake out. To the point of calling it an exploit.
Is that an example of a PvPer refusing to adapt to the environment and complain about it?
Yes, PvP is unfair. The modes aren't changing any time soon, as as a result of that this thread, and all like it, are, like trying to enjoy Kant: futile.
Why don't we all just shut up about it and play the game instead?
Why don't we all just shut up about it and play the game instead?
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That's your answer for any argument that shows that people dont always want to participate in PVP. Go to a different mode. People play an MMORPG to play with other players. The vast majority of players are in Open. Yes they might have to be prepared for PVP players to attack them but 'go to another mode' is not an excuse to force everyone out of open. Open is for *everything*. You cant refute changes to PVP by saying 'go to another mode'
And here was I thinking that this forum supported primarily reasoned debate, and not a response suitable for the World of Tanks forums. Please, don't continue to destroy your credibility with that type of a response.
This made me facepaw for the first time of the day >_>...
I never figured it would be you who did this but you have just said that it is all the fault of the person who got interdicted as they are the one being anti-social... Logic? Because I cannot fathom it at all... You seem to think that open means a player want's to be interdicted.
What you have said translates to it being my fault that my house got robbed because I have a house. Which I always hope never gets robbed.
Guess what, human nature 101, nobody wants to be a victim. There has to be a bad guy in all of this and it is not the trucker going about his business. It is the guy who interdicts him to either steal from him or just to blow him up.
Net result: Big loss of respect of your ability to handle a debate in a rational manner. I would of expected this from another member of the Code but not you.
I recall some well dressed feller complaining about traders being able to high wake out. To the point of calling it an exploit.
Is that an example of a PvPer refusing to adapt to the environment and complain about it?
Hey, I'm not the "well-dressed feller" and I don't know what you're talking about
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It surprises me how many people cannot accept that the potential for player combat. Open isn't just about player combat against players, it can happen, but when it happens, don't complain. Make suggestions to balance the interaction, but complaining about it per se is beyond me.
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Hey, I'm all for penalizing player killing for no reason more.
The argument is when people get engaged in hostile interaction with other players, some immediately think that the players engaging them are anti-social. Even if the victims don't know why they were engaged, it doesn't make the predator anti-social in a video game setting, it's usually the victim's extreme reaction that is anti-social in one's own conceited notion.
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And no, I don't think players that play in Open wants to be interdicted by default as you can see in one of my previous posts a page before this, no one wants to be interrupted, but this interruption is precisely what Open offers(unpredictability), if people cannot accept it and call it anti-social, then I really don't know what to say but call the person anti-social.
Hence this thread is here to discuss how to balance the more "player killing for no reason" to be more in line.
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Interesting response, but you've not actually given a direct response.
Surely you shouldn't be averse to the idea, after all, it's what you're asking others to do.
Ok, let me expand as you want to now try a slither your way out of that lie you just told.
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Modes are there to "avoid" PvP are they? Since when did PvP'ers show any respect for that?
Care to share with the group how many incursions there have been in to the Mobius PvE group now, by PvP'ers, FORCING PvP
Were you even able to type that with a straight face?
Yes people can high wake out of PvP, but avoiding PvP and waking out of PvP are not one and the same;
People go to Mobius to avoid PvP (not that it helps with PvP'ers lying to sneak in and then forcing PvP).
High wake is used when already in a PvP situation, so if someone is high waking, they didn't avoid PvP.
So the simple fact that you already know PvP'ers and Code members directly force PvP in Mobius shows just how much you'll churn saying people can "avoid" when they clearly cannot.
Open mode is all encompassing, PvP is a part of that. People will have to prepare for it. People can make pure PK groups/PvE groups, but to make Open either PvP alone or PvE alone is silly.
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That's called generalizing and stereotyping.
I am well aware of the one-time incident, it was when I was not a member of The Code. In fact I'm the one in The Code, currently an administrator and Ambassador that pushed for nullifying mode-invasion, and it indeed earned the majority's support in my syndicate. Sure, I couldn't provide the list of the syndicate's members, but I did gain the support of consent to not invade modes.
Please cut out the stereotyping.
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