Curse you VR gods!

[shadragon]

I've been wanting to replace my current PC system with a newer one for a while and the arrival of the HTC Vive is giving me that push. My old system is just under minimum standard for VR. I could just get a 12 GB Titan X (a 980 would only bring me up to minimum spec which will be outdated soon given the rate of technology improvements), but an exceptional video card run on a dated system will have issues in time.

First, I heard that AMD is coming out with the new Zen FX processor line later in 2016. That's good, but Zen will be an AM4 socket requiring a new motherboard (my current FX-8370 runs an AM3 socket.) AM4 mobo's run DDR4 memory, so I'll need to get that as well. New CPU cooler, maybe liquid cooling this time. The Titan X video card, power supply, case, PCIe SSD for the OS, RAID storage for data, DVD drives, etc. Not to mention the colored case fans and internal light strips for the ultimate in coolness.

I could strip out my old PC for parts and reuse the case, but as I need a working PC daily, that's not going to happen. I'll order the parts and then build it up over time. The wife will give me grief, but it's my mad money. Yet, the costs are mounting and even as an enthusiast who has build his own PC's for many years, the prices I'm seeing are starting to give me pause. This is also before the actual price of the Vive is announced as well. Eeep.

All I can see is my money being burned as an altar sacrifice to the VR gods. I've never used a VR headset, so this is a leap of faith indeed. 2016 will be a costly year.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Dear Shadragon, I would so like to be wrong about it, but I'm fallowing the VR hype on the market since some time now and I have just recently established an opinion of my own, all those new VR googles will fail sadly. The technology isnt there yet I'm affraid.

The reasons are exactly as mentioned by you. Its not even the price of the googles itself (as those arent such high in my personal opinion), but the prices of the rigs that would provide the googles with enough processing power are way above the capabilities of an average gaming enthusiast. And this is making all this fun, a fun for only elite gamers. And I dont mean our beloved game, I mean only tiny percent of the gamers worldwide. And if such a relative low price of the googles itself is to be keept, the producers (wratever its Sony, HTC, Oculus) ought to be seeling those to much more ppl, than only this tiny part of potential customers.

Why this is so sad? As if the VR will fail in 2016 (only becaise of economical reasons), we might not see comming back to the topic within next 10 or more years, as it happened once already, around 10 years ago when the 1st hype about the topic was just a huge disapointment for anyone trying it out back then. And if the huge companies will see its not profitable path (or not such profitable as intended), they will loose theor atraction fpr the subject for years. Again.

I would so like to be wrong about this...

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

At least you've got someone to blame other than yourself.

This used to be my ritual every 15 months or so, following the release of one big upgrade or another. I stopped it with my most recent PC by buying a 5930k which will future-proof the processor MB and RAM for 3 years from purchase ( 2 to go) and I got a bunch of other goodies crammed in it. My full tower case is looking pretty crowded, and the only think I have to change out over the next 2 years to satisfy my new hardware lust is the GPU this year, for the same reason as you. Gotta have the latest and greatest for my Vive headset when it releases.

 

[Aldaris]

Dear Shadragon, I would so like to be wrong about it, but I'm fallowing the VR hype on the market since some time now and I have just recently established an opinion of my own, all those new VR googles will fail sadly. The technology isnt there yet I'm affraid.

The reasons are exactly as mentioned by you. Its not even the price of the googles itself (as those arent such high in my personal opinion), but the prices of the rigs that would provide the googles with enough processing power are way above the capabilities of an average gaming enthusiast. And this is making all this fun, a fun for only elite gamers. And I dont mean our beloved game, I mean only tiny percent of the gamers worldwide. And if such a relative low price of the googles itself is to be keept, the producers (wratever its Sony, HTC, Oculus) ought to be seeling those to much more ppl, than only this tiny part of potential customers.

Why this is so sad? As if the VR will fail in 2016 (only becaise of economical reasons), we might not see comming back to the topic within next 10 or more years, as it happened once already, around 10 years ago when the 1st hype about the topic was just a huge disapointment for anyone trying it out back then. And if the huge companies will see its not profitable path (or not such profitable as intended), they will loose theor atraction fpr the subject for years. Again.

I would so like to be wrong about this...

It's not going to fail at all. Just because initial adoption rate is expensive (which is pretty standard for new technology. It's like saying HDTVs were going to fail based on initial price) doesn't mean it's going to fail.

 

[grammatonfeather]

First world problems can be tragic.

My wife and I read this thread and had tears streaming down my cat's face.

I recommend you buy 2 x titan x for VR SLI which should give you 12 months of medium to high VR graphic detail before you need to upgrade.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

It's not going to fail at all. Just because initial adoption rate is expensive (which is pretty standard for new technology. It's like saying HDTVs were going to fail based on initial price) doesn't mean it's going to fail.

The drill is my friend:

VR experience = VR googles + powerfull rig + special game title designed for VR;

...and the problem is all that parts comes from different suppliers, while HDTV is all you need to jump into this *new* technology (you still need HD content though, true). So supplier of every part mentioned needs to have a solid profit out of it to keep yourself in business. While the overall result (cool gaming experience) is a summary of all those parts/factors. Uncontrollable by only one supplier. Im just having hard times to believe there will be enough initial customers to keep the VR market growing and all comoanies involved will experience valid profits out of it to keep it running and developing further.

The VR is the ultimate and only way to go. No doubts about it. But I just domt see it comming yet. The VR googles are still to heavy to wear, to big in general (they should be the size and comfort of a regular glasses), to much processing power needed and totall lack of movie industry interest of the subject isnt helping as well...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I would so like to be wrong about this...

Don't worry you are

I have had a dk2 since July 2014. It's a total game changer. It won't become mainstream for a few years but I would wager it is here to stay

It won't be cutting edge but Sony may help get mass adoption

Oh and the adult entertainment industry is embracing it which always helps

PS at OP if you are going full rebuilt at least consider Intel. Amd always promise big but not since the athlon 64 have they had a couple capable of matching Intel. I would love that to change but not holding my breath. My money is on Intel with nv Pascal being the best for a while.

Pascal titan out in April. Gtx 1070 and gtx1080 out in June. That I think is where I would look.

 

[cmdr awesome]

The VR gods will smile on your offering, and bestow upon you a totally freakin awesome gaming experience.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Don't worry you are

I have had a dk2 since July 2014. It's a total game changer. It won't become mainstream for a few years but I would wager it is here to stay

It won't be cutting edge but Sony may help get mass adoption

Oh and the adult entertainment industry is embracing it which always helps

True that my friend. I will fallow your and OP steps as well, willing to join elite players out there. Just very hoping there will be enough of us for to keep big companies interested with the subject.

And about the adult movies..., yeap I saw one of those in oculus. Was said its very rare material, but this was whooooooooaaaa!!! Might be indeed, the XXX movies will help the gamers out unintentionally

Cheers CMDRs!!! Goin' to my cockpit, kill some stuff out there!

 

[grammatonfeather]

I know many won't understand my perspective but I no longer play games without VR.

I became tired of gaming on a conventional system some years ago. Experimented with VR back when IO-Systems PC3d was cutting edge and priced in the range of Sony HMZ.

Elite is stunning in VR even if I have to run it on low detail. Upgraded GPU last week from 680 to 970. 680 was overclocked heavily so the speed difference with 970 is marginal... were it not for the single pass frame warping on the 970.

I will need a second 970 for Octopus CV1.

 

[Pantsless]

There are just to many Heavy hitters in on VR this time around so it won't fail but it will take time for the cost to come down but in a year or two it might be reachable for more the a few.

 

[Khufu]

Dear Shadragon, I would so like to be wrong about it, but I'm fallowing the VR hype on the market since some time now and I have just recently established an opinion of my own, all those new VR googles will fail sadly. The technology isnt there yet I'm affraid.

The reasons are exactly as mentioned by you. Its not even the price of the googles itself (as those arent such high in my personal opinion), but the prices of the rigs that would provide the googles with enough processing power are way above the capabilities of an average gaming enthusiast. And this is making all this fun, a fun for only elite gamers. And I dont mean our beloved game, I mean only tiny percent of the gamers worldwide. And if such a relative low price of the googles itself is to be keept, the producers (wratever its Sony, HTC, Oculus) ought to be seeling those to much more ppl, than only this tiny part of potential customers.

Why this is so sad? As if the VR will fail in 2016 (only becaise of economical reasons), we might not see comming back to the topic within next 10 or more years, as it happened once already, around 10 years ago when the 1st hype about the topic was just a huge disapointment for anyone trying it out back then. And if the huge companies will see its not profitable path (or not such profitable as intended), they will loose theor atraction fpr the subject for years. Again.

I would so like to be wrong about this...

I've been running Elite since beta, exclusively on an Oculus Rift Dk2... I'm running a 6-7 year old I7 - 950 system that I overclocked. The only upgrade was a geforce 780, and my vr experience has been flawless, especially in Elite. I wouldn't worry about it, when they say "minimum spec" for VR hardware, they mean you'll have a 'comfortable' vr experience with that hardware, with a constant framerate of whatever is required of the headset. You don't need all the best hardware.

 

[Aldaris]

The drill is my friend:

VR experience = VR googles + powerfull rig + special game title designed for VR;

...and the problem is all that parts comes from different suppliers, while HDTV is all you need to jump into this *new* technology (you still need HD content though, true). So supplier of every part mentioned needs to have a solid profit out of it to keep yourself in business. While the overall result (cool gaming experience) is a summary of all those parts/factors. Uncontrollable by only one supplier. Im just having hard times to believe there will be enough initial customers to keep the VR market growing and all comoanies involved will experience valid profits out of it to keep it running and developing further.

The VR is the ultimate and only way to go. No doubts about it. But I just domt see it comming yet. The VR googles are still to heavy to wear, to big in general (they should be the size and comfort of a regular glasses), to much processing power needed and totall lack of movie industry interest of the subject isnt helping as well...

You were talking about expense, not suppliers, but if you want to go down that road, HD TV requires the TV, cable box/console, some kind of blu ray player, blu rays themselves and movie people making the HD content in the first place. That's, er, more suppliers than VR.

Whether they come from different suppliers is utterly irrelevant though. The only overriding issues are cost and quality. The quality seems to be resolved. The cost is clearly not insurmountable otherwise the Rift wouldn't now be on back order until June. Cost will decrease either as manufacturing scales up or as different models come out which increases the audience, or you have something cheaper and mass market straight away like the PS4.

As for movies, Netflix is bringing out a VR version. Problem solved.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Wait for Pascal.


Really, HTC should not have done a full launch without Pascal, seeing how it promises 10X over the current Nvidia Chips and would have the power to run the HTC and then some.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

I can see it now. All around the world people start complaining about major power events (normally brown outs, but occasionally sub stations failed). The electricity generating companies begin investigating. They find numerous places where homes are drawing a lot more power than they would expect (into the megawatt range, sometimes into 2 or 3 figure levels). The first place they went into there was a person trying to play a computer game using VR technology. There was a normal PC in the main gaming area. The player had on their head a HUGE headset (with Waldo systems to allow them to actually move!) with enormous screens for the output to each eye, and there were a pair of massive cables coming off this headset and going into the basement. Down there were a pair of modern super-computers, highly synchronised together (and with the normal gaming rig), and each of the SC units was driving the video output for one side of the VR rig (which was running into the mega pixel range). Despite all of this, the player was complaining about lag and lack of resolution (and other technical stuff the investigators could not understand).

 

[Kristov]

I'm looking at upgrading for VR myself, I need a 980 Ti and I'm actually good to go really, my old i7 950 and 6g ram suffice, although I'll be upgrading my ram to 16g, it's cheap so why not. In order to get a newer CPU, which would give me a very minimal increase in performance, I'd be spending well over $2k USD on a new mb, cpu and ram, not to mention the cost of the 980 Ti itself and the VR headset, $600 for OR CV1 or at LEAST $1000 for the HTC Vive Pre(est value according to giveaways of the Vive Pre, so it'll be at least a grand). The 980 Ti and 16g of ram is under $800 USD in comparison and it will allow me to run Elite in VR very nicely, just another $600 to $1000 depending on the VR option I go for, as I'm still undecided. I know FD is working with HTC and OR to get VR functioning for both systems, but right now they only officially support the HTC option. I could care less about the controllers, I'll be using my HOTAS+VA for Elite, which is probably the only thing I'll play in VR, so that other stuff doesn't matter to me, so for me, price and quality are what matters. The OR CV1 hits both of those, the Vive is higher priced for the same quality, so far as I can tell, but I'm not sure the Vive has all the adjustment options that the CV1 does, and those matter to me, like glasses, if the focal point isn't right, bad things are the result, been there, done that, no thank you!

 

[Leslie]

You were talking about expense, not suppliers, but if you want to go down that road, HD TV requires the TV, cable box/console, some kind of blu ray player, blu rays themselves and movie people making the HD content in the first place. That's, er, more suppliers than VR.

Whether they come from different suppliers is utterly irrelevant though. The only overriding issues are cost and quality. The quality seems to be resolved. The cost is clearly not insurmountable otherwise the Rift wouldn't now be on back order until June. Cost will decrease either as manufacturing scales up or as different models come out which increases the audience, or you have something cheaper and mass market straight away like the PS4.

As for movies, Netflix is bringing out a VR version. Problem solved.

With respect, HDTV requires a USB drive at the minimum. I have the TV, and all the rest, which is wasted, as I usually stream from my phone (yes, I have a phone and a Chromecast) or a USB. My point is not that the other stuff is not wanted, merely that you *need* the TV, and ANY form of content.

 

[Aldaris]

With respect, HDTV requires a USB drive at the minimum. I have the TV, and all the rest, which is wasted, as I usually stream from my phone (yes, I have a phone and a Chromecast) or a USB. My point is not that the other stuff is not wanted, merely that you *need* the TV, and ANY form of content.

Then your an exception and still proving your own argument wrong because you need multiple bits of kit to access HD content. If you want to get down to brass tacks, all you need is hardware and software for VR.

I simply don't see what the number of suppliers has to do with adoption rate.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Moved to VR section.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm looking at upgrading for VR myself, I need a 980 Ti!

that'll certainly do it, but unless you want a VR hmd on day 1 (fair play if you do, i know i could not wait any longer than i have to) in June all being well the gtx 1070 and 1080 should come out which will offer you more bang for your buck (hopefully)

my eyesight is frankly rubbish, tho at a push i could play in my DK2 without using my contacts if i used the (supplied) lenses for short sighted people. it was not as good as with my contacts and the standard lenses but it was perfectly playable.

my point is...... I would wager either oculus or someone will offer a perscription configured custom lens option. it may come at a price, but as someone who has considered buying prescription scuba mask.... sometimes we have to pay above and beyond for the things we love.