Proposal Discussion Flight Assist Off

[Globusdiablo]

Quick poll.

Who thinks Flight Assist Off should be a realistic alternative for the die hard newtonian fans out there? At the moment FA Off seems nerfed to nudge players towards the arcade controls of FA On.

 

[Stachel]

FA off is just not fly-by-wire. Not using the flight computer to make micro adjustments etc. I think it should be something you can exploit with great skill to gain a significant advantage yes. Otherwise there won't be an awful lot of actual skill involved in dog fighting. Which would be a bit rubbish!

 

[Iskariot]

Quick poll.

Who thinks Flight Assist Off should be a realistic alternative for the die hard newtonian fans out there?

I indeed was hoping that it would be something like that. And being able to switch at will between the two flight modes seems the perfect solution to me.

 

[Mazhurg]

FA off is limited to max acceleration and velocity that FA on has; and I am fine with that for networking, game-play, balance and fun.

 

[Stachel]

FA off is limited to max acceleration and velocity that FA on has; and I am fine with that for networking, game-play, balance and fun.

TBH if they are doing client side calculations and using p2p networking to route packets its going to be hacked to death in week 1 anyway ..

So may as well make it half interesting!

 

[Globusdiablo]

FA off is limited to max acceleration and velocity that FA on has; and I am fine with that for networking, game-play, balance and fun.

But the thrusters seem nerfed right? Not as powerful in FA Off mode?..

 

[Adept]

FA off is just not fly-by-wire. Not using the flight computer to make micro adjustments etc. I think it should be something you can exploit with great skill to gain a significant advantage yes. Otherwise there won't be an awful lot of actual skill involved in dog fighting. Which would be a bit rubbish!

This makes no sense. Are you saying that if FAoff would let you have 6DoF freedom without also disengaging attitude stabilisation, there would be no skill involved?

The point of the skill in dogfighting is to be about tactics and manual aim, not the skill of wrestling with your own ship to get it pointed where you want. That is an arbitary decision to gimp the flight mode.

Allegiance doesn't soup up the translational thrusters when flying with "assist on" to make the plane fly like a jet, and disengaging those doesn't mean that you suddenly have to orient the ship like it's a soyuz with computer trouble.

I also promise you that Allegiance is the most skill oriented space dogfighter yet. The game has it's problems*, but lack of skill in the PvP or flying are not those.


*Lack of a proper lobby and the difficulty of starting a match, as well as the way the games can last hours. Those are the problems. Nothing to do with the flight model.

 

[Mazhurg]

But the thrusters seem nerfed right? Not as powerful in FA Off mode?..

Everything is the same thrust wise. One thing to remember is that the best manoeuvring comes when velocity is in the optimal range (i.e. the blue band in the velocity indicator (beside the radar). One thing that many miss on is that they forget that when going FA off and they leave the throttle where it was last, the ship will accelerate to max velocity with the attendant loss of manoeuvrability.

 

[Adept]

TBH if they are doing client side calculations and using p2p networking to route packets its going to be hacked to death in week 1 anyway ..

So may as well make it half interesting!

I actually suspect it won't be. There's an interesting new thing called Byzantine Fault Toleranse.

 

[Phaedra]

This poll is largely meaningless since it is based on a non-question.

There is no difference in the relative speed limit compared to the frame of reference for either FA On or FA Off. Also, both FA On and FA Off have exactly the same degrees of freedom (and the same maximum thrusts from each thruster). The only difference is that your input is interpreted differently to produce different thrusts depending on whether you have FA On or Off.

The only thing that could make FA Off more Newtonian is to get rid of the relative speed limit, which isn't going to happen for reasons that have been repeated elsewhere ad nauseum.

The only real question is whether FA Off should be made a bit easier (becoming FA Lite perhaps), which has nothing to do with Newtonian physics.

 

[Captain N]

There is no difference in the relative speed limit compared to the frame of reference for either FA On or FA Off. Also, both FA On and FA Off have exactly the same degrees of freedom (and the same maximum thrusts from each thruster). The only difference is that your input is interpreted differently to produce different thrusts depending on whether you have FA On or Off.

I agree with all of this except the maximum thrusts part. Try testing the following: In FAOFF, accelerate your Cobra to maximum lateral (or vertical, doesn't matter which) motion. Use your lateral or vertical thrusters only to decelerate back to zero, while timing it.

Now, accelerate back to maximum speed, but instead of manually decelerating, just turn flight assist on and let the computer handle the deceleration. Notice anything different?

It should take only about half the time.

In any case, the fact that both modes already are very similar to each other in terms of what they can and cannot do is actually a pretty strong argument for adding an "in-between" mode that only stabilises rotation. I am fairly confident that people using such a mode, regardless of how elite pilots they are, are not going to gain some huge advantage from it. Full FAOFF should still be there, as it's actually great for certain tasks - such as docking.

 

[Phaedra]

I agree with all of this except the maximum thrusts part. Try testing the following: In FAOFF, accelerate your Cobra to maximum lateral (or vertical, doesn't matter which) motion. Use your lateral or vertical thrusters only to decelerate back to zero, while timing it.

Now, accelerate back to maximum speed, but instead of manually decelerating, just turn flight assist on and let the computer handle the deceleration. Notice anything different?

It should take only about half the time.

Thanks, that was useful and, to be honest, I can't see any good reason why it should be the case. Have the Devs said anything about why you should get more lateral/vertical thrust in FA On compared to FA Off?

I agree on rotational correction as well. I don't think it would give a huge advantage.

 

[ZeeWolf]

 

[Leonick]

In any case, the fact that both modes already are very similar to each other in terms of what they can and cannot do is actually a pretty strong argument for adding an "in-between" mode that only stabilises rotation. I am fairly confident that people using such a mode, regardless of how elite pilots they are, are not going to gain some huge advantage from it. Full FAOFF should still be there, as it's actually great for certain tasks - such as docking.

I'd love a mode in between. Basically, let me deal with the forward/reverse, lateral and vertical thrusters (don't stop the ship just because I stop thrusting in one direction) but stabilize pitch, yaw and roll. That's what you're saying, right?

 

[Globusdiablo]

I can't see why FA Off can't be a more realistic alternative to FA On.

Why does FD have to nerf FA Off and make the thrusters weaker than in FA On?

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

Leave FA Off as it is. At the moment it takes practice and skill to steady the ship and it is possible.

I say no to an easy version.

 

[IAM GROOT]

Agreed

 

[Sterlino]

Yesterday i played FFE for the first time after 5 years that i left it untouched.

and ... i was surprised how much i found it boring, old and tricky in combat stages.
Blame to the Newtonian physics !!
I am every day happy of the devs's choices on elite dangerous.

If there could be a way i would to totally remove the newtonian elements from the game