Vive pre potential woes....

[grammatonfeather]

http://pastebin.com/eSrfwwpU

I'm not someone who blindly follows a brand and then sets about attacking the competition. Although Palmer/Oculus is the reason any of us are using low cost VR... I am still very interested in any other HMD products. I'm the worst person to choose for brand loyalty. There has been a lot of rush to vive camp since last year. People blindly rushing based purely on spec or because they jumped on the trendy "facebook is our enemy" nonsense.

I like the Vive's VR controllers and based on CES reports they work very well. Precise tracking. Half Moon at this stage is still "buggy".

While it's nice to have the most for the money... Room scale tracking is appealing. It's not so appealing when dragging cables.

So for me... Room scale tracking without wireless is not something I'm interested in. Vive Pre is heavier than Oculus and less comfortable. But some people complain about DK2 weight so I know that some people have really weak necks. I can use DK2 for many hours on a daily basis and never experienced discomfort.

Vive has taller FOV... That's good. I like the integrated camera to show your surroundings in a tron-esque way.

CV1 is a very high quality build with new techniques and materials used. Palmer is a perfectionist.

Anyway... I am not someone who dismisses Oculus because another product has better spec (especially given the unknown price of Vive). Nor am I someone to show brand loyalty to Oculus. I am open-minded and cautious...

The anonymous pastebin in my link does make me more wary...

It could turn out to be groundless or partially true or fully correct. I'm not a gambler especially on 50/50 odds.

 

[Lestenio]

@grammatonfeather

Interesting.
To add to their woes:

Study: Oculus Rift More Popular With Devs Than PlayStation VR, Vive, HoloLens
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/study-oculus-rift-more-popular-with-devs-than-play/1100-6434251/

 

[grammatonfeather]

@grammatonfeather

Interesting.
To add to their woes:

Study: Oculus Rift More Popular With Devs Than PlayStation VR, Vive, HoloLens
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/study-oculus-rift-more-popular-with-devs-than-play/1100-6434251/

Also interesting.

Not surprising really since Palmer/Oculus did so much to get it out there in the hands of developers. Vive is a relative newcomer and barely reached any of the smaller developers. Oculus was purchased by non-developers also which greatly boosted the popularity.

 

[vic]

Also interesting.

Not surprising really since Palmer/Oculus did so much to get it out there in the hands of developers. Vive is a relative newcomer and barely reached any of the smaller developers. Oculus was purchased by non-developers also which greatly boosted the popularity.

Oculus is way ahead in experience in hardware and sofware. I have yet to hear about one single full-fledged game game working today with the VIve. Also walking around with tethered cables makes the whole concept of walking around in VR useless, unfortunately!...and oculus know it!

 

[grammatonfeather]

Oculus is way ahead in experience in hardware and sofware. I have yet to hear about one single full-fledged game game working today with the VIve. Also walking around with tethered cables makes the whole concept of walking around in VR useless, unfortunately!...and oculus know it!

No question about the expertise. Some of the best minds working at oculus now. Assuming HTC don't have any more disasters I am sure the software will pick up eventually but Oculus had a very long lead and had the perfect strategy for getting DK1 and Dk2 into the hands of big and small developers (and users). I would have loved to buy a Vive developer kit but they were closed-off and restricted. I had to prove that I was a developer and playing around with Unreal engine doesn't qualify.

 

[Mazhurg]

Oculus is way ahead in experience in hardware and sofware. I have yet to hear about one single full-fledged game game working today with the VIve. Also walking around with tethered cables makes the whole concept of walking around in VR useless, unfortunately!...and oculus know it!

Please, do not turn this thread into an echo chamber.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/42czbn/that_submillimeter_tracking_accuracy/czaics1

By and large, if all the criticism is about a non-issue, then the Vive will do well.

 

[Monk]

I think it is all wonderful. I love seeing product development duke it out on the free market.

Hopefully the devices vary enough that we can see some real feedback through competition and the next generation of HMDs will be even better and more affordable.

For my part, I'll watch from the sideline and jump in after the first gen.

 

[grammatonfeather]

Please, do not turn this thread into an echo chamber.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/42czbn/that_submillimeter_tracking_accuracy/czaics1

By and large, if all the criticism is about a non-issue, then the Vive will do well.

I wouldn't dismiss it as a non-issue because one guy says it's overblown.

It really depends on the game, the room and the furniture. If the game just involves standing then it's not so much of an issue. If you have a real chair in your room and want to go from sitting to standing and maybe move around... it starts to be more of an issue.

I can certainly see that some games will be ok with room scale and cables so long as limited furniture is involved.

For me personally room scale isn't a requirement at this time. I will wait till the wireless comes either in 3rd party add-on or official update.

And not all the criticism is about a non-issue.

 

[Mazhurg]

Wether it be on the DK2, CV1 or Vive, the fact is that there will be a cord. Even sitting, the DK2 cord tends to slide between the shoulder blades and can restrict head movement, yet I don't hear anyone complain about it... Could it be that people get used to it?

It's just a question of acclimatization. After a short while, you take the cable into consideration subconsciously when moving.

 

[Adam Lusardi]

http://pastebin.com/eSrfwwpU

This has already been posted here and bumped once already.

 

[Telc]

A - This is sly innuendo from December just plausible enough to hook you into believing but not really enough to be able to pin anything down.

B - If it is true what exactly should worry anyone?

HTC missed their December launch for "reasons", there is a new firmer set of dates. So....

The informed speculation that there was a front facing camera for months prior to December. It popped in and out of the SteamVR sdk at one point iirc.

The software powering that is ... software with bugs and features and stuff. Sound familiar?

Consumer products have issues? HTC has shipped many many millions more products then Oculus, both in volume and complexity, physical hardware and the entire Android software stack.

The Oculus CV1 actually has more parts in its headset if that's something you want to "usefully" worry about. I'm not worried about the CV1 or the Vive.

 

[grammatonfeather]

Wether it be on the DK2, CV1 or Vive, the fact is that there will be a cord. Even sitting, the DK2 cord tends to slide between the shoulder blades and can restrict head movement, yet I don't hear anyone complain about it... Could it be that people get used to it?

It's just a question of acclimatization. After a short while, you take the cable into consideration subconsciously when moving.

Big difference sitting with HMD and dragging a cable around trying not to twist it in knots.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This has already been posted here and bumped once already.

That's great!

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

A - This is sly innuendo from December just plausible enough to hook you into believing but not really enough to be able to pin anything down.

B - If it is true what exactly should worry anyone?

HTC missed their December launch for "reasons", there is a new firmer set of dates. So....

The informed speculation that there was a front facing camera for months prior to December. It popped in and out of the SteamVR sdk at one point iirc.

The software powering that is ... software with bugs and features and stuff. Sound familiar?

Consumer products have issues? HTC has shipped many many millions more products then Oculus, both in volume and complexity, physical hardware and the entire Android software stack.

The Oculus CV1 actually has more parts in its headset if that's something you want to "usefully" worry about. I'm not worried about the CV1 or the Vive.

"HTC has shipped many many millions more products then Oculus, both in volume and complexity, " << That's a good point actually.

 

[Frank]

Wether it be on the DK2, CV1 or Vive, the fact is that there will be a cord. Even sitting, the DK2 cord tends to slide between the shoulder blades and can restrict head movement, yet I don't hear anyone complain about it... Could it be that people get used to it?

It's just a question of acclimatization. After a short while, you take the cable into consideration subconsciously when moving.

I can remember playing though Half Life 2 on my DK2. There was a moment when I was fighting alongside my allies we were in a tight space and I jostled against one of the soldiers. I felt them touch my right shoulder. That was a little too realistic for comfort. I yanked off my headset and ran out of the room. It wasn't until later that I realised what I felt was the umbilical cable of the headset on my shoulder <blush>

...camp since last year. People blindly rushing based purely on spec or because they jumped on the trendy "facebook is our enemy" nonsense.

So now it's "fashionable" to dislike Mark Zuckerberg. I've disliked him ever since I heard what he called his users, and I've been suspicious of the cavalier attitude he has with their personal information. I guess that makes me a trend setter.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Big difference sitting with HMD and dragging a cable around trying not to twist it in knots.

I tried the Vive in two demos recently, and honestly the cable dragging and twisting wasn't really an issue. Developers just need to develop their games so you don't do a lot of spinning about. They know about these issues, and work around them. I don't remember which video I saw, but it was of some developers talking about a bunch of ways to make sure it doesn't happen. It might be in this on from Occulus connect 2
[video=youtube;hjc7AJwZ4DI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjc7AJwZ4DI[/video]


I pre-ordered the Rift, and figured I'm really a cockpit VR guy. Not really interested in Room Scale, because I don't have the space in my office, and I'm satisfied with the seated experience playing Elite: Dangerous and War Thunder. But two things happened. 1) Tried out the Vive in "Raw Data" and "Aperture" and 2) I realized I could move my computer to the "Kinnect Space" for room scale.

I'm hoping when the Touch eventually comes out, it'll handle Room Scale. The other option would be to wait for the 2nd generation Vive (since word is, the first release will be a "Pioneer" model, like with the Samsung GearVR). I just found the Vive too bulky, and shifted way too much with how much movement I was doing in Raw Data. CV1 was so much more comfortable.

 

[grammatonfeather]

I can remember playing though Half Life 2 on my DK2. There was a moment when I was fighting alongside my allies we were in a tight space and I jostled against one of the soldiers. I felt them touch my right shoulder. That was a little too realistic for comfort. I yanked off my headset and ran out of the room. It wasn't until later that I realised what I felt was the umbilical cable of the headset on my shoulder <blush>



So now it's "fashionable" to dislike Mark Zuckerberg. I've disliked him ever since I heard what he called his users, and I've been suspicious of the cavalier attitude he has with their personal information. I guess that makes me a trend setter.

I didn't find any of the horror games I tried on Oculus scary last year. The one game I found extremely scary on Oculus is HL2 (especially Ravenholm). I'm replaying HL2 in VR and I'm up to the point with the giant crane. I used it to drop containers on the enemy guards.

Facebook: What does the curly-haired facebook muppet call his users?

I tried the Vive in two demos recently, and honestly the cable dragging and twisting wasn't really an issue. Developers just need to develop their games so you don't do a lot of spinning about. They know about these issues, and work around them. I don't remember which video I saw, but it was of some developers talking about a bunch of ways to make sure it doesn't happen. It might be in this on from Occulus connect 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjc7AJwZ4DI


I pre-ordered the Rift, and figured I'm really a cockpit VR guy. Not really interested in Room Scale, because I don't have the space in my office, and I'm satisfied with the seated experience playing Elite: Dangerous and War Thunder. But two things happened. 1) Tried out the Vive in "Raw Data" and "Aperture" and 2) I realized I could move my computer to the "Kinnect Space" for room scale.

I'm hoping when the Touch eventually comes out, it'll handle Room Scale. The other option would be to wait for the 2nd generation Vive (since word is, the first release will be a "Pioneer" model, like with the Samsung GearVR). I just found the Vive too bulky, and shifted way too much with how much movement I was doing in Raw Data. CV1 was so much more comfortable.

Interesting. I haven't seen that video so I'm gonna watch it tonight. I'm also a cockpit VR guy more than anything. I will finally get into DCS World properly now it works on latest oculus runtime. Have they fixed the menus in War Thunder yet? Were totally broken last year and the game wouldn't keep my X-52 Pro hotas settings.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Interesting. I haven't seen that video so I'm gonna watch it tonight. I'm also a cockpit VR guy more than anything. I will finally get into DCS World properly now it works on latest oculus runtime. Have they fixed the menus in War Thunder yet? Were totally broken last year and the game wouldn't keep my X-52 Pro hotas settings.

Sort of. I just started 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I heard a previous build was completely broken. At this point, all the "real world" stuff works - you're in the cockpit, scale is right, you have positional tracking. The only thing missing is the HUD elements, including the friend / foe tags. Far off planes appear as grey dots as they should, but you're at a disadvantage in Arcade o Realism mode since you have to visually determine the friend or foe. It doesn't help that in those modes, you get a mix of every nation's planes on a team. Even in Simulator Battle, you can't tell a friend when within 800 meters with a tag, like you normally can (from what I hear). I'm personally fine with it, as I'm not "In it to Win it" but in for the immersion.

Here's a cool video on War Thunder in the Rift
[video=youtube;S0-UR3FVH1E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-UR3FVH1E[/video]

 

[grammatonfeather]

Sort of. I just started 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I heard a previous build was completely broken. At this point, all the "real world" stuff works - you're in the cockpit, scale is right, you have positional tracking. The only thing missing is the HUD elements, including the friend / foe tags. Far off planes appear as grey dots as they should, but you're at a disadvantage in Arcade o Realism mode since you have to visually determine the friend or foe. It doesn't help that in those modes, you get a mix of every nation's planes on a team. Even in Simulator Battle, you can't tell a friend when within 800 meters with a tag, like you normally can (from what I hear). I'm personally fine with it, as I'm not "In it to Win it" but in for the immersion.

Here's a cool video on War Thunder in the Rift

That's a nice setup!

Good video.

Well I just tried War Thunder again and "Oculus not detected". So I see they still haven't updated to latest runtime which is unforgivable. Games with much smaller budgets have been.

I will stick with DCS World. It's a work of art.

 

[xondk]

http://pastebin.com/eSrfwwpU.

While I share your concern the pastebin link is just that, a pastebin link, it can be written by anyone, including someone that wants to spread insecurity about vive so more people will flock to oculus.

The statements made are very generic in my opinion.

And last I checked vive had the higher resolution so it would be oculus that has caught up with vive?
Checking out videos of people's impressions of vive, seems to consistently say, that it is the better product at least from my view, i may be biased.

And considering vive has valve behind it, I am not too concerned about problems with the components, valve wants this to succeed, and they have a good bit of cash to back it up.
Just like facebook wants Oculus to succeed, and in regards to facebook, facebook has manipulated stuff before and their view on their customers at least according to ToS and similar, is horrific, that doesn't change that facebook is useful to many, but it is something I think people should be aware off.

My recommendation, look at both of them, as you stated yourself, don't be brand loyal, but don't fall off the other side of the cliff, by being scared away from a brand by rumour either.

Keep an eye on the products, wait, don't pre-order if you aren't sure, wait, watch the users reactions to said products, and make your judgement there, something I would also recommend in terms of general games.

Sort of.

Nice video, and yeah definitely going to be interesting when vr steps in fully. Going to be a new level of gaming. A level I think Elite is quite ready for, due to its nature, where other games, will need to be tweaked.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Well I just tried War Thunder again and "Oculus not detected". So I see they still haven't updated to latest runtime which is unforgivable.

I neglected to mention that. It works with 0.5, and probably 0.6. That's fine with me, since I play Elite in 0.5, and 0.8 + SteamVR doesn't work so well for me (I know it's better for some).

I'd try DCS, but I'm not a very good pilot. I mostly want to "feel" like a pilot, which is what I get in War Thunder. Sort of like Rock Band / Guitar Hero, you feel like a rock star, without having to bother with all that musical skill and such.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

OT hoeverver are you guys playing dcs playing 1.5 or 2.0?

Thanks