Ship scan detected: now even popsicle mode can't protect you

[KR4K40]

So I went smuggling. What can I say, the money's good, and I have a Python to feed. Keep reading, it gets good at the end.

I picked up a bunch of missions, delivered some then arrived in the target system for another delivery, and that's where i saw the glory of quality coding.

Immediately upon my arrival, I was interdicted by an authority ship which failed completely and dived into the star. Laughing at the ordeal, I headed for the destination station. Upon accelerating, I noticed that another authority vessel was commanding me to drop from supercruise, as he aparently was too far away to interdict me.

Whatever, I thought, that's a problem for when I'll start decelerating.

As expected, I was interdicted during the deceleration phase. Nothing special, yet. Just the usual ED ery that happens when you stack smuggling missions. I evaded this interdiction, to my surprise, then headed to my destination.

With no ships on my sensors I then dropped at the outpost, approached it, asked for docking permission and started boosting in my usual reckless docking fashion.

BUT THEN SURPRISE, an authority Viper III dropped LITERALLY right in front of me, followed by another on my left. I could do nothing to avoid it and slammed into it.

"Shields offline." went the little voice. "Hull integrity compromised." it added.

Then "Scan detected."

Uh oh. Immediately, I boosted away -putting several hundred meters between the authority vessel and I- went into silent running and deployed a heatsink. The result: 0% heat, my cockpit covered in ice and my heat signature flatlining.

You'd think that would make me invisible to sensors, causing any active scans to stop, right?

Nope! Almost immediately (and not ~10 seconds like it's supposed to) I was scanned, causing all my missions to fail, despite being literally a block of ice in space.

The result:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Suffice to say that I am really off at that cheating AI. First, it s up and dives into a sun, then I evade interdiction legitimately, and then it just shows up even though my sensors showed nothing. They weren't even supposed to be anywhere near the station.

And on top of all this, you can't evade scans by changing into a space popsicle.

Oh yeah, and to add insult to injury I got fined for slamming into the ship that dropped right on my nose.

I am fed up of this AI that blatantly cheats. Turreted railguns and beams that do as much if not more damage than their fixed counterparts, SCBs that don't show up in the module list nor generate heat, immunity to chaff, straight up god mode and now teleportation.

The more I play, the more I am disappointed.

 

[Arry]

You need to check comms. If they (security ships) are talking about you as you enter system, then the WILL scan you. So you need to leave the system and return, to re-set them. If they are chasing in super cruise, again, they will be waiting for you, as you drop.

If you see or here from them, you really need to leave the system and come back.

 

[Ravenov]

You need to check comms. If they (security ships) are talking about you as you enter system, then the WILL scan you. So you need to leave the system and return, to re-set them. If they are chasing in super cruise, again, they will be waiting for you, as you drop.

If you see or here from them, you really need to leave the system and come back.

That's still a gamey mechanic to avoid the real issue though.

 

[defekt]

Welcome to the game where the only way to get by is to game the game. Check all sense and logic at the door, please. Enjoy your stay.

 

[KR4K40]

You need to check comms. If they (security ships) are talking about you as you enter system, then the WILL scan you. So you need to leave the system and return, to re-set them. If they are chasing in super cruise, again, they will be waiting for you, as you drop.

If you see or here from them, you really need to leave the system and come back.

Live and learn I guess

Meanwhile, meaningless exploits are fixed overnight. Oh, and still no RES crash solution on the Horizon, har har har

 

[Iskariot]

Uh oh. Immediately, I boosted away -putting several hundred meters between the authority vessel and I- went into silent running and deployed a heatsink. The result: 0% heat, my cockpit covered in ice and my heat signature flatlining.

You'd think that would make me invisible to sensors, causing any active scans to stop, right?

I am not sure there's something wrong here.
You boosted away and used silent running AFTER having been spotted by security.
That however does not guarantee that the Security ships lose you as you seem to think.
They are in Vipers and should have no problem keeping up with a Python.
When you boosted they might have simply followed you and never lost sight of you.
And when you went cold it might just not have mattered to them at all as they had already spotted you.
Going cold does not mean you cannot be scanned.


From my experience Security ships will start to scan you if you are within 1km range.
You must use cold running BEFORE they spot you.
You can only somewhat delay a scan that has already been initiated by using chaff, going cold will not save you at that point.
But using chaff does not guarantee a definite escape either.

 

[777Driver]

90% of my smuggling is done in a Python - You will not be able to put sufficient distance between yourself and the authority's whilst running cold, the ship just doesn't have the speed. You either briefly engage the ship to halt the scan or drop out of warp early if they have announced their intentions on comms... You really need to think ahead in the bigger ships.

Silent running in big ships only works if you are already outside detection range and no scan has started. You reacted as if you were flying the Cobra.

In the Python I tend to drop out early, if I'm taken by surprise I'll engage the cop briefly then high wake out. Better to take a 400 credit fine rather than lose 30 million in missions

 

[Ziljan]

"Several hundred meters" isn't far enough for a medium sized ship to freeze their way into invisibility. Especially not if a scan has already been initiated. Your ship was doomed because it is too large and too slow to escape that close of scan initiation. Only a few ships are fast enough to escape a cargo scan from point blank range. The Asp isn't really one of them and requires a bigger starting buffer range between you and the po-po.

That being said, the AI does cheat, and it's wrong. But in this case you made several rookie smuggling mistakes that your Asp couldn't bail you out of. For one, you should have over shot the target and back tracked. As this would have made it impossible to be interdicted (police facing the wrong way) and would have bought you precious time to dock. Failing that, you should have also have immediately charged FSD and circled away after dropping to the station rather than requesting docking permission, because the cops will often spawn too close near stations if they are close enough in SC. Heading for the station with 2 cops on your tail, bound to fail unless you were in a cobra and led them away from the station before doubling back.

 

[biohazard15]

Welcome to smuggler's daily routine. BTW, they also has a super-interdictor, which allows them to interdict you after you've jumped away (if the interdiction starts when you're charging FSD and you're managed to jump, you'll be interdicted immediately when you arrive at the next system. Not sure if this bug was fixed).
Sadly, the only way to avoid this "brilliant AI" is to cheat the cheaters, literally. By that I mean logging out to main menu and back.

 

[Iskariot]

Welcome to the game where the only way to get by is to game the game. Check all sense and logic at the door, please. Enjoy your stay.

Sadly, the only way to avoid this "brilliant AI" is to cheat the cheaters, literally. By that I mean logging out to main menu and back.

It might also help to avoid rookie mistakes.
I have been playing ED for more than thousand hours and I have never, really never ever been scanned if I did not want to.
I am not some super hotshot super smuggler pilot, but just a middle aged Elite fan.
If I can do it then I am sure everybody can.

 

[KR4K40]

"Several hundred meters" isn't far enough for a medium sized ship to freeze their way into invisibility. Especially not if a scan has already been initiated. Your ship was doomed because it is too large and too slow to escape that close of scan initiation. Only a few ships are fast enough to escape a cargo scan from point blank range. The Asp isn't really one of them and requires a bigger starting buffer range between you and the po-po.

That being said, the AI does cheat, and it's wrong. But in this case you made several rookie smuggling mistakes that your Asp couldn't bail you out of. For one, you should have over shot the target and back tracked. As this would have made it impossible to be interdicted (police facing the wrong way) and would have bought you precious time to dock. Failing that, you should have also have immediately charged FSD and circled away after dropping to the station rather than requesting docking permission, because the cops will often spawn too close near stations if they are close enough in SC. Heading for the station with 2 cops on your tail, bound to fail unless you were in a cobra and led them away from the station before doubling back.

I did not have two cops on my tail.

Still, live and learn I guess. I've already picked up the backtracking routine.

 

[X-Terminator]

How would these ideas play out: -
1. If pulled by a cop then drop all cargo - wait for them to go after any scans and pick it back up! Use SR+HS as you drop. Just get a fine or non and keep Missions unless scanned with them? OR
2. Take on the Shadow Missions and then take a detour to change your ship to a faster smaller one and then buy Slaves from elsewhere but nearby. It's the Jump Range you really need for around 350ly but stealth and speed is best to Smuggle within the destination. Just a thought if you set it up to work winthin reason...

 

[Ari Ben Zayn]

Nowhere ever in all my time following E have I read that silent running is a perfect invincible invisibility cloak that will protect you against any and all harm. If you fly past a cop at too low a distance he WILL notice you. It's not perfect but on the other hand it's also not useless.

 

[biohazard15]

How would these ideas play out: -
1. If pulled by a cop then drop all cargo - wait for them to go after any scans and pick it back up! Use SR+HS as you drop. Just get a fine or non and keep Missions unless scanned with them? OR
2. Take on the Shadow Missions and then take a detour to change your ship to a faster smaller one and then buy Slaves from elsewhere but nearby. It's the Jump Range you really need for around 350ly but stealth and speed is best to Smuggle within the destination. Just a thought if you set it up to work winthin reason...

1. Never tried that, but keep in mind that there is a 20-container limit per one player (due to hardware limitations). Drop one more - and it will explode.
2. Won't work if these slaves were mission-specific (in fact, mission-specific cargo was introduced in order to fix this exploit).

 

[Viking84]

It might also help to avoid rookie mistakes.
I have been playing ED for more than thousand hours and I have never, really never ever been scanned if I did not want to.
I am not some super hotshot super smuggler pilot, but just a middle aged Elite fan.
If I can do it then I am sure everybody can.

You clearly haven't experienced the joyous amount of bugs that plague the interdiction mechanisms while smuggling. Had a fun one now, was boosting away from a security ship, when a stationary pirate spawns a few feet to the right of me. I smack the wing of my Asp into him, do a perfect 180 degree turn and end up facing the security ship who starts a scan. Managed to deploy hardpoints and take a shot at him but I don't think I had many seconds to spare.

Bugs like these make the game a bit too random for my taste, but FD have acknowledged the problem and will hopefully have a fix for 2.1

 

[xondk]

So I have to ask, are they really cheating? you have taken a LARGE amount of missions, that at least to me, makes you a large target, much much more likely of being hunted.

Smuggling isn't something that is easy last I checked, so I am unsure what you are expecting?

Yes, Frontier has talked about AI fixing, but I really don't think this is a problem of the AI, nor one of them that are going to get 'fixed'? Why shouldn't the highest value missions have the highest risk of failure?

 

[guido1205us]

Funny those that defend the current game ai and chalk up these events as noob inexperience. I've made over half a billion shadow smuggling since horizons and know how to do it in my smuggling asp. I have it down pat with regards to concurrent fuel scoop star strafing, honking, fsd charge and line up. Simple fact is the current ai cheats:

1. What diffefence does it make with stacked missions vs a single should envokes more aggro? How would the systems authorities/pirates know what your number is? Did someone tip them off? No, it's lazy programming to simply increase aggro linear with the number of missions in order to provide more "challenge"
2. Chaff, silent running - doesn't work, do even try
3. Instant complete scans upon exiting FSD, interdiction with no NPCs on radar, spawning right in front of you whereas you ram them and lose shields and incure hull damage - all fun times

Yea, I'm glad ai is being looked into with the next patch.

 

[Juris]

I share the frustration of the OP. The bugginess of the scanning situation and indeed interdiction is royally taking the      at this stage. Please FD its killing it for many. Over the last few days I've had instances where I was interdicted by the only cop in range, won the mini game and was immediately (not 5 seconds, a split second) re-interdicted again by the same cop and lost the second interdiction within a couple of seconds and taking damage in the process.

On top of this I've just failed 2 shadow missions after dropping out of SC in front of the station. No cops behind me in SC and no scan when I dropped. Literally drop and instantly a failure notification top right at 9km from the station and no police anywhere. After doing 49 jumps in a Corvette (masochism I know) this brings out the rage.

As for NPC's including cops dropping from SC right in front of you as you move towards stations this is a known bug. I've seen fanboys on other threads defending it as an intended mechanic but having filed a support ticket over a month ago with FD they stated it was a bug they were aware of and re-instated my clean system status where an Imperial Courier decided to drop in front of me and got unavoidably squashed.

 

[xondk]

Funny those that defend the current game ai and chalk up these events as noob inexperience. I've made over half a billion shadow smuggling since horizons and know how to do it in my smuggling asp. I have it down pat with regards to concurrent fuel scoop star strafing, honking, fsd charge and line up. Simple fact is the current ai cheats:

1. What diffefence does it make with stacked missions vs a single should envokes more aggro? How would the systems authorities/pirates know what your number is? Did someone tip them off? No, it's lazy programming to simply increase aggro linear with the number of missions in order to provide more "challenge"
2. Chaff, silent running - doesn't work, do even try
3. Instant complete scans upon exiting FSD, interdiction with no NPCs on radar, spawning right in front of you whereas you ram them and lose shields and incure hull damage - all fun times

Yea, I'm glad ai is being looked into with the next patch.

1: more missions, more people looking after you? or at least that is my theory, no clue how mechanics support it, but it seems reasonable to me that the more risky missions you take the more difficult it is?
2: you sure chaff doesn't work? i've used it pre and post horizon with fine effect, it doesn't stop it just delays it at which point you dock and go into hangar? but yes silent running needs fixing.
3: well that is clearly a bug.

But despite these bugs, i would still say if you have more missions you pain a bigger target on yourself, but yeah again no clue how mechanics support this, I'm not saying it is 'noob' mistakes, I'm saying "that's the risk of smuggling" a risk that definitely should be there.

 

[guido1205us]

1: more missions, more people looking after you? or at least that is my theory, no clue how mechanics support it, but it seems reasonable to me that the more risky missions you take the more difficult it is?
2: you sure chaff doesn't work? i've used it pre and post horizon with fine effect, it doesn't stop it just delays it at which point you dock and go into hangar? but yes silent running needs fixing.
3: well that is clearly a bug.

But despite these bugs, i would still say if you have more missions you pain a bigger target on yourself, but yeah again no clue how mechanics support this, I'm not saying it is 'noob' mistakes, I'm saying "that's the risk of smuggling" a risk that definitely should be there.

I agree that the more missions you take that more risk should be involved - just not the linear increased aggro. If the mission itself requires discretion, why does every , jane, harry at every star on your path know how many missions you have? Lessen the amount of aggro interdictions, allow those to be random with scans, while giving better quality interdictions, whereas those coppers/pirates/bounty hunters were tipped off and know exactly what your cargo is so that there is no need for a scan. Rather, they let you know you have been ratted out by someone and begin to attack you. They even could be in a wing, and you've got to figure out fight or flight. And with flight, they should be able to pursue you accross the galaxy until you lose or deal with them.