Combat Loggers... how many are there!!!! What kind of punishment do they receive and when?
- Thread starter TheoZ
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As a programmer, I shudder at the very thought of ideas like "disabling task manager" or "randomly renaming the .exe". These things may sound like clever ideas from the outside, but they are a) hell to implement and b) run counter to dozens of established best practices in the profession. The only good thing coming out of this would be the stuff to appear on The Daily WT Eff.
And yes, btw, any third party software that somehow manages to disable the task manager is absolutely, 100% malware. I don't think you can even do that without using techniques that would otherwise occur only in computer viruses (and thus it'd be likely that the game would be automatically flagged as a virus, and rightfully so).
you can dissable task manager with a simple reg edit.
and by extension of that could be disabled with a command line. and would not be detected or considered a virus.
and renaming the exe is ridiculously simple.
setlocal disableDelayedExpansion
set "chars=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789"
for /f "eol=: delims=" %%F in ('dir /b /a-d *.exe') do call :renameFile "%%F"
exit /b
:renameFile
setlocal enableDelayedExpansion
:retry
set "name="
for /l %%N in (1 1 8) do (
set /a I=!random!%%36
for %%I in (!I!) do set "name=!name!!chars:~%%I,1!"
)
if exists "!src! !name! !ext" GOTO :retry
endlocal & ren %1 %name%.exe
set "chars=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789"
for /f "eol=: delims=" %%F in ('dir /b /a-d *.exe') do call :renameFile "%%F"
exit /b
:renameFile
setlocal enableDelayedExpansion
:retry
set "name="
for /l %%N in (1 1 8) do (
set /a I=!random!%%36
for %%I in (!I!) do set "name=!name!!chars:~%%I,1!"
)
if exists "!src! !name! !ext" GOTO :retry
endlocal & ren %1 %name%.exe
and there are LOTS of ways to achieve the same result.
and again if the program is meant to disable it, and states it will dissable it in the EULA/Tos and then Re enables it when its done. its not malware..
malware is doing something that you dont want it to do without your knowledge or permission.
some examples of the difference:
A program you installed deletes your files, without you knowing and without your permission. and you have all kinds of hell preventing it doing it.. That would be malware.
A program you installed that You specifically installed To delete your files, you are perfectly aware of it doing it, and you can stop it. Is not malware.
A program that you installed to do one thing, which then prevents you from accessing a part(s) or function of your computer without your knowlage, and you have a really hard time to get the computer back to how it was. would be malware..
A program that you installed to do one thing, which also prevents you accessing a part(s) or function of your computer ONLY whilst that application is running, which was stated in the EULA "which you agreed to before installing" is not malware..
programs with emphasis on parental control would all be breaking the law and illegal if what you think is true was true.
heck windows would be illegal because of how it protects files and folders.
-=edit=-
i do think i need to mention once more however..
that would be a pointless waste of time because turning off the router or pc would still net the same end result.
So it is a silly debate to be having to start it..
Again like i said before I do believe the best thing to do is to damage the hull of the combat logger on return.
50% of the remaining hull / by shield rings...
which would be..
100% hull and 3 rings when you left the game would be 17% damage to hull and 0 sheilds when you returned (83% hull remaining)
100% hull and 0 rings would have you come back with 50% hull and 0 shields.
and 16% or less hull would have you come back to the insurance screen..
only happens in combat and only if the player exits the game ungracefully.
Perhaps damage multiplyers based on shields and so on needs tweaking. but that's the general idea.
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I don't know if it was suggested before, but how about the approach other MMOs like WoW took at the open PvP. If you get killed by another player, there where no repair costs.
The only exploit for this was, you can weaken a player who is already in an PVE fight and let the AI take the final kill, buts that's better than nothing.
I can understand the frustration of players getting killed just for the lulz and losing days of progress, mostly days of grinding. And if I imagine a situation where a player bombed back from a Python to a Sidewinder just for the lulz of another player... i think that could be a reason to quit ED for a loooong time. (I know, never fly without insurance bla bla bla... but i think that happens)
I am playing in the Mobius group because i like to meet people, but not to PvP them in mostly unfair situations. And there is no benefit in killing other players either.
The only exploit for this was, you can weaken a player who is already in an PVE fight and let the AI take the final kill, buts that's better than nothing.
I can understand the frustration of players getting killed just for the lulz and losing days of progress, mostly days of grinding. And if I imagine a situation where a player bombed back from a Python to a Sidewinder just for the lulz of another player... i think that could be a reason to quit ED for a loooong time. (I know, never fly without insurance bla bla bla... but i think that happens)
I am playing in the Mobius group because i like to meet people, but not to PvP them in mostly unfair situations. And there is no benefit in killing other players either.
Disabling Task Manager without a *very* good reason is just not going to happen. And helping a few crazy gamers shoot virtual spaceships is not going to fly as a good reason.
Nice try though
EULA or TOS might cover your legal side, but sure as heck no user whatsoever will consider themselves properly "informed" by stuff that is written there. If anything, it would require something like a big fat warning popup message when the game is started.
Yeah, okay, let's assume hypothetically that mentioning it in the EULA were a decent way of informing everyone: so you buy this game and there comes the EULA and among 1000 lines of capslock legalese gibberish is this part that says "The following functions on your computer are disabled while running the game: control panel, task manager, shutdown, restart." Imaging le outrage for just one second once this gets known. People would be like "Starforce, Securom, haha, that's kindergarden compared to how ED messes with your computer".
1 day later, every combat logger has simply switched from killing the process to pulling the network cable, which are both indistinguishable* for the server - the game client suddenly stops communicating without warning.
*And still individually indistinguishable from a game crash, PC crash, game freeze, PC freeze, BSOD, network outage, power outage etc.
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Never did i say it was a good idea.
i said it was a stupid idea, and pointless..
All i said is it would not be malware.
And have a look at my posts and you will see i said why it was pointless.
i said it was a stupid idea, and pointless..
All i said is it would not be malware.
And have a look at my posts and you will see i said why it was pointless.
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Disabling task manager?
How half stupid is that - how else would I kill yet another unresponsive ED Client?
How half stupid is that - how else would I kill yet another unresponsive ED Client?
wasnt my idea lol. some one said it a few pages back.. i just had to mention that the ppl who said it would be malware were missinformed
Looks like a duck, quacks likes a duck, chances are its a duck!.
However as always "you" are operating at the far end of the extreme trying to justify the middle ground. FD wont ban on one instance and their telemetry is meant to be collecting data across the longer game plan. If you as a commander are so unlucky as to suffer an internet disruption only when you are in combat and no where else then you might just be the one special snowflake out there.
They are looking for patterns, if your commander is dropping connection randomly then the odd CL is highly likely to be ignored. I do however imagine watchdog knows if there is an active internet connection when the game suddenly exits ungracefully.
The cheating denial is very strong in this thread.
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the thing is though, it is possible to distinguish between a game crash, a game freeze, a BSOD, a network outage / power outage and ripping out the network cable / end tasking...
A BSoD will be a lockup of the system, with no program dumps, a game crash (from my experience) tends to dump, a game freeze (not experienced this or crashes since I replaced a dodgy vid card) could leave teltale information in the logs / telemetry data for fdev. a network outage outside of the players control can be checked externally and coupled with telemetry can be determinable, just as ripping out the network cable can be verified through telemetry coupled with a reverse traceroute. End tasking can be logged through telemetry as the OS would send an application terminate signal to the app prior for a clean exit prior to halting execution of the task (unless I am mistaken on how the whole end task process works so will I stand to be gladly corrected)
so yes there are ways to determine if the client was exited using the task manager / alt f4 or if the network cable was pulled but only FD would have access to that info...
To be honest now shambles1980 I think they are simply trolling the thread. End of the day FD have reafirmed their stance and that really is all there is to it. A Pope (Innocent III) once said something along the lines of "kill them all, god will know his own" which in this context equates to "report them all, FD will know the cheaters".
Beyond Zacs post;
everything else has been an exercise of trying to knit fog. There's little point trying to debate a point with some people when they wont even accept there's a point to debate. FD have stated their position on it so the best thing to do (IMHO) is to keep the pressure on where it counts and that is with FD. The people who think its fine, will in time either realise they are wrong or be dealt with by FD.
So in the words of Duncan Bannatyne, I'm out
Totally agree.
There is very little griefing in Open and some people here are just using that as an excuse to justify CL. The rest are just trying to get a rise out of others on here and probably CL for the same reason
Oh come on. It IS funny how some go crazy about this topic.
Nobody does that it's too much effort.
Personally I sit with the LAN cable running between my teeth. First sign of another player I just bite down hard.
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They should be punished with lashings.
Lashings and lashings of gravy.
Lashings and lashings of gravy.
I do this too but I also have to wave my arms around to disrupt the wifi signal
I use a tinfoil hat to disrupt unwanted communiction signals.
After some thought I have decided to add a comment or two, firstly it is noticeable that most of the posts are from relatively low poster as to the post over the last few days in other threads, I wonder if interest in the subject is waning?
I am happy with griferes... IF there actions have consequences, which currently they don't.
Firstly, my experience of grifeing, being in a space station and as you try to exit you are repeatedly attracted and killed by one or more sitting out side of the no fire limit.
This seemed to have the affect of me becoming wanted by the authorities.
It could be defined as repeated actions with no in game gains....?
If this increased there bounty fine, and if this affected the AI's response to that player (more repeated attacks, greater numbers, larger fleets, all AI) that would work.
OK some might say why don't we attack them, I have tried, but they normally sit in groups of two or more; and after all I am a trader by choice...
it's manageable with the current game mechanics as I understand it.
Next, the why?
From day one I have played in open play, until two days ago. In the space of 15 minutes I lost four ships, the replacement costs of which cost me real hours of game play; you may say its just fun money, yes but its real time.
I look to advance my self with in the game and invest a certain amount of my life doing so, I find this enjoyable, if I do not enjoy the experience then I will stop.
What about a closed group, well I would like to meet players in game and tag along before committing to a group, not by searching on line for a groups webpage.
Groups are better formed in open play.
And as for those that thing a game can run with out rules, well there are places on earth that function like that to a degree now, but none of you expect a home invasion without consequence.
Your lives are governed by rules, as must your games; why? Because you couldn't live in a rule less environment. As such you can not play in a rule less game, but I suppose that is a concern for the developers as people will leave an environment that they do not enjoy, and that includes the grifers.
I now play solo, and will probably not return to open play, what the point?
I am happy with griferes... IF there actions have consequences, which currently they don't.
Firstly, my experience of grifeing, being in a space station and as you try to exit you are repeatedly attracted and killed by one or more sitting out side of the no fire limit.
This seemed to have the affect of me becoming wanted by the authorities.
It could be defined as repeated actions with no in game gains....?
If this increased there bounty fine, and if this affected the AI's response to that player (more repeated attacks, greater numbers, larger fleets, all AI) that would work.
OK some might say why don't we attack them, I have tried, but they normally sit in groups of two or more; and after all I am a trader by choice...
it's manageable with the current game mechanics as I understand it.
Next, the why?
From day one I have played in open play, until two days ago. In the space of 15 minutes I lost four ships, the replacement costs of which cost me real hours of game play; you may say its just fun money, yes but its real time.
I look to advance my self with in the game and invest a certain amount of my life doing so, I find this enjoyable, if I do not enjoy the experience then I will stop.
What about a closed group, well I would like to meet players in game and tag along before committing to a group, not by searching on line for a groups webpage.
Groups are better formed in open play.
And as for those that thing a game can run with out rules, well there are places on earth that function like that to a degree now, but none of you expect a home invasion without consequence.
Your lives are governed by rules, as must your games; why? Because you couldn't live in a rule less environment. As such you can not play in a rule less game, but I suppose that is a concern for the developers as people will leave an environment that they do not enjoy, and that includes the grifers.
I now play solo, and will probably not return to open play, what the point?
The easiest solution to combat logging is two fold. Make it where the logger's ship remains in space for 1 minute after the log. Also make it where the aggressive ship faces steep reputation loss and bounty penalties, and loses the ability to dock at stations for 15 minutes. Also, if they log during those 15 minutes after killing someone, their ship remains logged in with a beacon that points to their last known location.
Win-win for everyone, IMO
Win-win for everyone, IMO
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