Apology from Sticktwiddlers for comments...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
- Start date
They say in the blog-backer comments that they each backed at $10. I have no issues with them backing SC if that is their choice, but to disparage a "competitor" is extremely fanboy-ish.
Seems that the guys over at lave radio will be discussing the argument with sticktwiddlers in the next episode!
Now that's a must listen
Looking forward to it. For the record I agree it isn't that big a deal, but I do understand why people would be offended. But I'm also pleased they admitted they were in error and apologised. So I don't think we should hate on them too much.
You can understand where they are coming from but not agree with what they said.
For someone with no interest in the game £200/£100 to alpha and beta test a game is a crazy amount of money. The people that pledged at that level at kickstarter just to get the game funded is one thing but paying it after they were successfully funded just to get early access is again, objectively, crazy.
How many people that have paid for Alpha or Beta access haven't told their friends and family how much they paid for the game? You quite often here on these forums see "I hope the missus doesn't find out" Etc... This would indicate that they themselves understand that they've paid an above average amount for a computer game that dare I say it normal people would not understand about.
I personally am glad that everyone backed the game what they could during Kickstarter as it got the game made. Since I have backed at a level that normal people would say is crazy I'm inditing myself as well here so don't get all shirty about it.
For someone with no interest in the game £200/£100 to alpha and beta test a game is a crazy amount of money. The people that pledged at that level at kickstarter just to get the game funded is one thing but paying it after they were successfully funded just to get early access is again, objectively, crazy.
How many people that have paid for Alpha or Beta access haven't told their friends and family how much they paid for the game? You quite often here on these forums see "I hope the missus doesn't find out" Etc... This would indicate that they themselves understand that they've paid an above average amount for a computer game that dare I say it normal people would not understand about.
I personally am glad that everyone backed the game what they could during Kickstarter as it got the game made. Since I have backed at a level that normal people would say is crazy I'm inditing myself as well here so don't get all shirty about it.
I can agree with that actually, there's a big misunderstanding about all this, basically this was what FD came up with to raise funds in the KS. They sorta trapped themselves and as I've commented many times, Michael himself wanted a hard cut-off post closing the backers forum. The ability to buy in later was kept as an option due to a lot of people in the forums asking for that ability. They couldn't lower the price out of fairness to the original backers.
But yes I do see how the confusion could arise.
IIRC a couple of them backed SC to the tune of $40 or there abouts, personally i think its a bit moronic of them to fail to take into account everything you get for your money when shelling out £100 for PB, the way they were talking on the podcast sounded like PB was ALL you got for your £100 when in fact you get the finished game AND all future expansions for that price.
in effect PB is only £30 on its own.
in effect PB is only £30 on its own.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
bizzarely i just came accross this now
http://crateandcrowbar.com/2013/11/01/episode-016-globbed-shut-by-a-creature-of-the-night/
1hr 36min 50s
They cover much the same ground, albeit less offensively.
I am still on the fence.
http://crateandcrowbar.com/2013/11/01/episode-016-globbed-shut-by-a-creature-of-the-night/
1hr 36min 50s
They cover much the same ground, albeit less offensively.
I am still on the fence.
Looking at the store from the viewpoint of a brand new purchaser, who had never heard of the KS (and therefore knows nothing about pledge-levels, KS rewards etc), it appears that the Premium Beta includes Standard Beta, Gamma, and Release). It doesn't specifically say that these later stages are included, but I think it's reasonable to assume the purchaser would understand this to be the case.
What appears to be the case also is that the Expansion Pass would for that purchaser would be an additional £35, making a total of £135 for both PB + EP.
I have a friend at work who pledged £80 during the KS, which was SB + EP.
During the KS, PB + EP was an additional £20 (making a total of £100).
Would he now get PB + EP if he upgraded, at a cost of £20?
I'm not complaining or anything (I'm in Alpha \SMUG\), but want to make sure I'm giving him the correct information.
PS - I much prefer FD to be better at making games than marketing, rather than the other way around
What appears to be the case also is that the Expansion Pass would for that purchaser would be an additional £35, making a total of £135 for both PB + EP.
I have a friend at work who pledged £80 during the KS, which was SB + EP.
During the KS, PB + EP was an additional £20 (making a total of £100).
Would he now get PB + EP if he upgraded, at a cost of £20?
I'm not complaining or anything (I'm in Alpha \SMUG\), but want to make sure I'm giving him the correct information.
PS - I much prefer FD to be better at making games than marketing, rather than the other way around
It totally undermines their defence that they used to try to justify the mud slinging. Whilst I do think there is a valuable debate to be had about companies selling early access and if its fair for well established players in the industry to use crowd funding, why would it be okay to back one project and then slate another in the guise of pretending this sort of funding mechanism isn't right.
If they do appear on Lave Radio I hope that whoever debates them raises that because it will show them for what they are. That said, doing so would simply act as a platform to promote them and in a weird way reward them for being idiots.
I appreciate their apology.
I would just like to say though, if they want to drag me out into a field and shoot me, well, lets just say I have more bullets than them
I would just like to say though, if they want to drag me out into a field and shoot me, well, lets just say I have more bullets than them
I had to admit to laughing out loud at bit about taking them into a field and shooting them...errr, me! At the absurdity of it of course. I don't think anyone actually took them seriously, that they would ever do this, right? That's good then. But they have apologised for it and that should be the end of it in my book. The rest of the video was pretty entertaining I thought.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Why do some people think the only way they can get their point across is to engage in extreme hyperbole?
Don't like something? Fine. Say you don't like it and tell us why. Then leave it at that. If your argument has merit it'll sway others. If it doesn't then no amount of chest pounding or jumping up and down is going to make it acceptable.
Don't like something? Fine. Say you don't like it and tell us why. Then leave it at that. If your argument has merit it'll sway others. If it doesn't then no amount of chest pounding or jumping up and down is going to make it acceptable.
They damn well needed to apologise, but not so much for the swearing, calling us "morons" collectively, or making offensive statements about suggesting people be shot for "being part of the problem" to get a cheap laugh.
The really offensive thing was the complete misrepresentation of the game's financial model due to their ignorance and lack of research. That's simply a lack of professionalism and responsibility, and they fully deserved the (verbal) caning they received.
Every monetary transaction with FD with regard to this game to date has been either a kickstarter donation to see the game made, a pledge site donation for the same reason, or a purchase of the game itself and/or promised expansions. In many cases this has also included a supplementary fee to access the preliminary development and testing stages of the game. For kickstarters this was part of the deal, for people joining through the shop after the pledges were discontinued it is a matter of pegging the prices at the same level.
To baldly state that all you get for 100 quid is permission to test the game for the developers is ignorant and misleading at best, and damaging to the game's image for potential customers. I doubt very much this was a conspiracy on their part. I doubt they have the collective intelligence to mount a conspiracy.
The really offensive thing was the complete misrepresentation of the game's financial model due to their ignorance and lack of research. That's simply a lack of professionalism and responsibility, and they fully deserved the (verbal) caning they received.
Every monetary transaction with FD with regard to this game to date has been either a kickstarter donation to see the game made, a pledge site donation for the same reason, or a purchase of the game itself and/or promised expansions. In many cases this has also included a supplementary fee to access the preliminary development and testing stages of the game. For kickstarters this was part of the deal, for people joining through the shop after the pledges were discontinued it is a matter of pegging the prices at the same level.
To baldly state that all you get for 100 quid is permission to test the game for the developers is ignorant and misleading at best, and damaging to the game's image for potential customers. I doubt very much this was a conspiracy on their part. I doubt they have the collective intelligence to mount a conspiracy.
Why do some people think the only way they can get their point across is to engage in extreme hyperbole?
Don't like something? Fine. Say you don't like it and tell us why. Then leave it at that. If your argument has merit it'll sway others. If it doesn't then no amount of chest pounding or jumping up and down is going to make it acceptable.
I dunno, there's some curious property of the internet that causes people to turn their opinions up to 11. I think it's something along the lines of the super-ego being distracted by cat videos, leaving the id to freely swing the virtual-tadger in internet arguments.
Or something.
I hate hyperbole. I would like to throw anyone who uses it through the window off the top floor of a 100 story building.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I hate hyperbole. I would like to throw anyone who uses it through the window off the top floor of a 100 story building.
I agree 400%!
OH, AND CAPS!!!!
People seem to be treating this like it's an investigative journalistic piece by a major international news agency into civil rights abuses. It's not. Neither is it even a balanced discussion of the issues regarding kickstarter and pledge-funded development. It's several idiots having a 'partly ironic', 'comedy' grumble about things. If you're getting grumpy at it for not providing reasoned, balanced argument, and for (amongst other things) using hyperbole and bad language for comic effect, then, well, you're a moron probably (see what I did there?).
My personal view on it is that their views are ill-informed; ignorant even, and the piece is not particularly funny. Wow, that never happens on the internet.
I don't really care what they think or say to be honest, what I am a little alarmed about is the reaction by many on this thread.
Feeling that we 'deserve' to be apologised to because somebody said something mildly insulting seems to be tantamount to everyone deserving an apology from anyone who's written anything that offends them on the internet. Given the internet is approximately 63.731% troll (by mass), that could take some time. We deserve an apology no more than they deserve one from me for calling them 'idiots' and 'ignorant'.
My personal view on it is that their views are ill-informed; ignorant even, and the piece is not particularly funny. Wow, that never happens on the internet.
I don't really care what they think or say to be honest, what I am a little alarmed about is the reaction by many on this thread.
Feeling that we 'deserve' to be apologised to because somebody said something mildly insulting seems to be tantamount to everyone deserving an apology from anyone who's written anything that offends them on the internet. Given the internet is approximately 63.731% troll (by mass), that could take some time. We deserve an apology no more than they deserve one from me for calling them 'idiots' and 'ignorant'.
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Actually the point of this thread was to make their apology more widely known. But the thread got a little derailed by the 'what you so mad about?' posts...