Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen

[Vyrsai]

It's not required that you play there if your immersion is broken. You can play elsewhere.

See how great this is...more choices...more happy players!

You can use that same advice and play in Mobius or any other non PvP group currently without taking time away from devs to change something that already exists!


As a pirate by trade, creating another split in the playerbase where an entire "blaze your own trail" "job" is against the rules is a bad thing to me.

Splitting the playerbase up more in general is a bad thing imo.

My opinion on the underlying issue (jerks that just attack without even opening a com) -- Make RPing mandatory. It would help much more and frankly make the social interactions so much better.

 

[Roybe]

I don't believe that the two are directly comparable.
Subscribers, by the very nature of subscriptions, are more invested. I think that it's easier to ask someone to pay once for a product than it is to ask them to pay for it every month.
FD don't have the same pressure put upon them, of having to maintain subscriptions to keep the servers running.

I don't think that the introduction of an open PvE mode will significantly increase sales of Elite - and I could be completely wrong about that

The devs' focus changes between sub and BtP. It is healthier for the consumer in a BtP model, as the devs are having to meet players expectations everytime they want more money. The more times they fail at this, the more likely it is for people to walk away.

A dev's focus on subs is just to get the players to keep punching the ticket. Basically, this becomes easier over time as more people will stay and pay, not for content...but because they have more time and money invested than in most BtP games...in other words...poor content and treadmills are overlooked because people feel compelled to play because of sunk costs.

 

[Gedemon]

You have some really tame, boring nightmares, mate. No spiders, no tentacles, no zombie spiders with tentacles...? Jeez.

But no, the worst nightmares aren't those filled with monsters, they are the ones that start like dreams with someone/something you love but end with her/him/it being taken away from you.

That vision (splitting Open in PvP only/PvE only) is the worst thing I can imagine for Elite. Yes, even worst than another PowerPlay-like implementation of a new gameplay.

Why? Because players would be able to interact freely, without having to be held hostage to PvP? Because there would be less soft targets in open to be sheered? Just what exactly do you fear from players being able to coalesce in a mode that doesn't require each of us to become someone elses content at a whim?

see my previous answers, the message I was quoting is just proving my previous points:

Spoiler

Because if you create a PvE group it will imply the other one is not for PvE.

Open is not the PvPers mode, it's the "everything can happen" mode.

I've seen messages saying that de facto it's already only PvP, if that was true (but it's really not my experience since beta in open) then it would have to be fixed before anything else IMO.

But it's not PvP only. Not yet.

Still there are some people already saying that it is only PvP in this topic.

And if FD explicitly add a "open PvE" mode, then it will truly become, by symmetry, "open PvP" as in "only PvP" in the mind of most players.

That's why I ask for 3 explicit modes if we got an "open PvE" mode: PvE, PvP, Mixed

I understand that, but my concern is about the mindset of the players.

Or the crime & punishment rules must be fixed before adding a PvE only mode.

Edit: to clarify, when I'm in open, I do not "consent to any and all PvP", for example I don't want some people to think that it's fine to ram me in the slot because I'm not in the PvE only group, or others to shoot me without warning even if we are on the same faction because "hey, why aren't you in the PvE group if you're not looking for fights", etc...

[...]

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Absolutely not. How badly broken would that immersion be. I can shoot this ship but when I shoot your ship my lasers turn into a stick with a flag on the end of it that says "bang"?

actually it saddens me that you would need to have such a mechanic
Any mode which says PvP is not allowed and is PvE only there should not need to be such things in place because it says it in the name... that gameplay is not welcome..

as ever the minority of nitwitts ruin things for everyone else and potentially cause dev headaches (for me it was these same nittwits which meant i left open in the 1st place and cause there to be a need for a PvE mode/group.

personally as a start to see what happened in such a group i would just have a x100 multiplier on the cost of crimes against a pilots federation member in a PvE mode which would make "illegal" PvP not sustainable. but would make accidents recoverable as well as a forgive / report function to decide it to report minor FF incidents to the police or not so genuine accidents would not get fined..

only after a set number of issues in a certain time limit do i think there would need to be more drastic action.

ramming damage would have to be removed i guess however. too easily exploitable.

 

[Vyrsai]

actually it saddens me that you would need to have such a mechanic
Any mode which says PvP is not allowed and is PvE only there should not need to be such things in place because it says it in the name... that gameplay is not welcome..

as ever the minority of nitwitts ruin things for everyone else and potentially cause dev headaches (for me it was these same nittwits which meant i left open in the 1st place and cause there to be a need for a PvE mode/group.

personally i would just have a x100 multiplier on the crimes in a PvE mode which would make "illegal" PvP not sustainable. but would make accidents recoverable.

only after a set number of issues in a certain time limit do i think there would need to be more drastic action.

ramming damage would have to be removed i guess however. too easily exploitable.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience in open. It's not the norm though. I play in Open everyday with over 1,000 hrs played and have been interdicted and fired upon with no reason or comms less than 10 times. On the other hand I have had 100s of interactions with other players, some being beneficial to me and some to them and some to both, but ALL of those have been a positive interaction where it left me feeling that Elite Dangerous is the best game I have ever played.

I agree with you that they need to fix the crime system first and THEN we can see if we can't just all have fun in Open instead of splitting the community again.

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

... and THEN we can see if we can't just all have fun in Open instead of splitting the community again.

I can answer this one for you right now; we can't. Some may have been driven from Open by bad experiences, others of us never went into Open in the first place because we just don't want to and there's nothing forcing us to. The community is split and has been, by design, from the very beginning. An Open PvE mode is merely an extension of that design.

 

[Vyrsai]

I can answer this one for you right now; we can't. Some may have been driven from Open by bad experiences, others of us never went into Open in the first place because we just don't want to and there's nothing forcing us to. The community is split and has been, by design, from the very beginning. An Open PvE mode is merely an extension of that design.

Ok. Well I also want an Open PvE but Empire only because I don't want to see any other CMDRs that support other factions. I also want an Open PvE for Patreus supporters only because I don't even like all Empire CMDRs either. Next week I might want another Open PvE with only Fed supporters because I'll have gotten my 3 week adv accelerator from Patreus....

No problem right? since

An Open PvE mode is merely an extension of that design.

Just because something was done in the past does not mean we are doomed to repeat it.

Again changing the crime system and also (and I know this might not make me popular) enforcing RP in open would fix the issues that people have with Open. If being fired upon randomly and with no comms in Open is what stops you from playing in Open, but you want to play in Open with other CMDRs then this is the answer, not splitting the community more and more everytime someone has a bad experience.

We should try to be pro-active. How amazing would it be if everyone that played E: Dangerous all played together happily in Open?

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

Ok. Well I also want an Open PvE but Empire only because I don't want to see any other CMDRs that support other factions. I also want an Open PvE for Patreus supporters only because I don't even like all Empire CMDRs either. Next week I might want another Open PvE with only Fed supporters because I'll have gotten my 3 week adv accelerator from Patreus....

No problem right? since

You're seriously trying to equate an Open PvE mode with... that? 'k.

 

[Vyrsai]

You're seriously trying to equate an Open PvE mode with... that? 'k.

Why not?

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
But no, the worst nightmares aren't those filled with monsters, they are the ones that start like dreams with someone/something you love but end with her/him/it being taken away from you.

I honestly don't see what would be 'taken away from you'. Everybody who currently plays Open and enjoys it would still be there, the only people who might leave are those who don't enjoy it's current state which is, whether you want it or not, antagonistic PvP might be imposed upon you.

I would imagine for those players, your worst nightmare might be their best dream come true.

 

[Vyrsai]

I honestly don't see what would be 'taken away from you'. Everybody who currently plays Open and enjoys it would still be there, the only people who might leave are those who don't enjoy it's current state which is, whether you want it or not, antagonistic PvP might be imposed upon you.

I would imagine for those players, your worst nightmare might be their best dream come true.

The reason why it isn't needed is because the devs can take the time they would have used to create some anti-PvP shield and a new instance (which also might need to be a new save, not sure how that would even work) and use that time to fix other issues in the game. Some of which could potentially solve the issue at its core and make an Open PvE mode irrelevant.

 

[Faded Glory]

You can use that same advice and play in Mobius or any other non PvP group currently without taking time away from devs to change something that already exists!


As a pirate by trade, creating another split in the playerbase where an entire "blaze your own trail" "job" is against the rules is a bad thing to me.

Splitting the playerbase up more in general is a bad thing imo.

My opinion on the underlying issue (jerks that just attack without even opening a com) -- Make RPing mandatory. It would help much more and frankly make the social interactions so much better.

You wouldn't be forced to play in a mode where your chosen trade would be against the rules. You could still pirate away quite happily with those other players who enjoy that style of gameplay. The only people who would split away from your chosen mode would be those who don't enjoy it. Can't really see how anybody could be against that.

Out of curiosity, how exactly would you propose to make RPing mandatory?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The reason why it isn't needed is because the devs can take the time they would have used to create some anti-PvP shield and a new instance (which also might need to be a new save, not sure how that would even work) and use that time to fix other issues in the game. Some of which could potentially solve the issue at its core and make an Open PvE mode irrelevant.

No argument that the devs should try and fix lots of game issues. It remains to be seen whether any of those 'fixes' can solve the issue of non-consensual PvP.

 

[Vyrsai]

You wouldn't be forced to play in a mode where your chosen trade would be against the rules. You could still pirate away quite happily with those other players who enjoy that style of gameplay. The only people who would split away from your chosen mode would be those who don't enjoy it. Can't really see how anybody could be against that.

Out of curiosity, how exactly would you propose to make RPing mandatory?

So you don't play in Open because you want to avoid pirates? or avoid "griefers" I was under the impression that an Open PvE is to get away from the latter.

Making RP mandatory the same way other rules are enforced. Through reporting players and having them shadow-banned.

I am a strong supporter of RP based communities in games like this. It gets rid of a lot of the negativity that some (very small) playerbases bring with them.

And it's not only because I enjoy pirating ( I also enjoy mining, trading, BHing, exploring ), but for the many other reasons I have stated in my posts. Dev time, splitting community more, etc.

 

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

Why not?

Sorry, I've already put in as much effort as I believe that puerile, petulantly hyperbolic line of argument deserved. (The effort was the "'k." at the end, in case you missed it.)

Edit: vvv 'k.

 

[Vyrsai]

Sorry, I've already put in as much effort as I believe that puerile, petulantly hyperbolic line of argument deserved. (The effort was the "'k." at the end, in case you missed it.)

I'll accept your surrender and assume I have changed your mind then k?

 

[Faded Glory]

So you don't play in Open because you want to avoid pirates? or avoid "griefers" I was under the impression that an Open PvE is to get away from the latter.

Making RP mandatory the same way other rules are enforced. Through reporting players and having them shadow-banned.

I am a strong supporter of RP based communities in games like this. It gets rid of a lot of the negativity that some (very small) playerbases bring with them.

And it's not only because I enjoy pirating ( I also enjoy mining, trading, BHing, exploring ), but for the many other reasons I have stated in my posts. Dev time, splitting community more, etc.

Nope. I think the main drive for an Open PvE mode is not to 'get away from pirates' but to be able to play cooperatively with other players without the possibility of non-consensual PvP. I could of course be wrong, I don't speak for others here.

I think RP is a bit subjective to be able to be 'reported' just because you (generic you, not you) don't like it. Plenty of posters on the forums have admitted that they enjoy RPing a psycho killer... Would that be Ok?

 

[Vyrsai]

Nope. I think the main drive for an Open PvE mode is not to 'get away from pirates' but to be able to play cooperatively with other players without the possibility of non-consensual PvP. I could of course be wrong, I don't speak for others here.

I think RP is a bit subjective to be able to be 'reported' just because you (generic you, not you) don't like it. Plenty of posters on the forums have admitted that they enjoy RPing a psycho killer... Would that be Ok?

I don't see why not, also those posters are not RPing at all, they are just saying they go around and kill people for no reason. I've personally never seen anyone open comms and start yelling like a maniac saying they are going to blow me up.

If the main drive is to get away from the possibility of non-consensual PvP (but non-consensual PvE is fine /boggle) that seems to go against the most base-line idea of what this game is. It just blows my mind that people would let the game they love get watered down like that. Anyway I'm digressing. And if that is indeed the reason behind it, then I really would say play in Mobius and let the Devs focus on fixing and making better content for all of us, not just some of us.

 

[Lheim]

I don't see why not, also those posters are not RPing at all, they are just saying they go around and kill people for no reason. I've personally never seen anyone open comms and start yelling like a maniac saying they are going to blow me up.

If the main drive is to get away from the possibility of non-consensual PvP (but non-consensual PvE is fine /boggle) that seems to go against the most base-line idea of what this game is. It just blows my mind that people would let the game they love get watered down like that. Anyway I'm digressing. And if that is indeed the reason behind it, then I really would say play in Mobius and let the Devs focus on fixing and making better content for all of us, not just some of us.

Non-consentual PvE? Are you reading what you're typing, or are you just being contrary by instinct? I'm reminded of Groucho Marx:

[Groucho]
I don't know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it.


Your proposition may be good,
But let's have one thing understood,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
I'm against it.


I'm opposed to it,
On general principle, I'm opposed to it.


[chorus] He's opposed to it.
In fact, indeed, that he's opposed to it!


[Groucho]
For months before my son was born,
I used to yell from night to morn,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And I've kept yelling since I first commenced it,
I'm against it!

And 'roleplay' is a terrible, terribly stupid 'reason' to go around indiscriminately murdering. Let's send these roleplay psychopaths heartfelt mourning letters from religious parents asking them to come back into the fold and see how they react, okay?

 

[AlexRyder]

Stupid poll. To create a pve only open would create extra admin overhead and use resources frontier doesn't have. It would also scare new people away from actual open. Dumb idea. Stop it

 

[Gedemon]

I honestly don't see what would be 'taken away from you'. Everybody who currently plays Open and enjoys it would still be there, the only people who might leave are those who don't enjoy it's current state which is, whether you want it or not, antagonistic PvP might be imposed upon you.

I would imagine for those players, your worst nightmare might be their best dream come true.

I do not fear "those who don't enjoy it's current state" leaving open, I fear that "those who don't enjoy it's current state because there is not enough PvP in it" will then impose their PvP-only view on "those who enjoy it's current state" using the argument "if you don't want to do PvP everytime, why don't you go in PvE ?"

If you got what you want, aka "Open PvE", please, give "them" an "Open PvP" and keep "Open Mixed"