Apology from Sticktwiddlers for comments...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
- Start date
He wasn't being serious it was banter.
With mates at the pub it's banter.
Published on a commercial gaming site it's something different.
Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
A poll is required as to the best way to proceed.....
Call the police?
Call the Army?
Pick up the cup and put it somewhere safe?
Write a strongly worded letter to your local MP?
The cup was over-proced anyway and will get what it deserves!
No, personally I can't understand where they are coming from and yes, I do not agree with what they said. Also, heres what I don't get ... At what point people understand they could just wait for the "Full product" to be completed? Or even wait for a possible "free" open beta/gamma? They don't have to buy/back the thing, yes ... even if it looks damn good.
Paid access to the Alpha/Beta etc is "still" just backing the games production, even if the thing has been fully funded as people keep pointing out, its backing its longer term production. Or are are people really suggesting like these sticktwiddler characters that FD are just a bunch of unscrupulous devs looking to milk their product for pure profit!
As for £200 being too much to back a game? Sorry but the cost of say PS3/4. XBOX1 games are what? £39.99/49.99/59.99 or more a pop? Anyone with one of those consoles has more than one of those sitting in a case by the side of it or on the hard drive. You buy 4 or 5 of those and you've equaled or blown past the £200 mark! Most family members know fully well how many games are sitting about the house, they know how much is being spent on this kind of gaming hobby. So for most, its not an issue and those comments you are pointing at are people mostly dropping lines just to get an eyebrow reaction from this forum crowd here.
The fact is, £200 and what you are getting for it in the long term ... is peanuts compared to the amount people would spend over the year on say, Steam on their computer or a console sitting in their house. £200 is not an issue and if it is, you really shouldn't be having a hobby that revolves around computer gaming ... no its far better they just stick to playing board game Monopoly with the family. :smilie:
Wait....so he was just joking and using hyperbole?!
Uh oh.....soooooo.....anyone know where I can get some lye?
Sorry mate, but can't agree with this. While you, and others, might not have a problem whipping out £200 for this, not everyone is in that situation - and to say that those without that sort of disposable income shouldn't even be in the hobby, or show an interest in the game is simply answering hyperbole with more hyperbole.
You're passionate about it, and fair dues for that, but the fact does remain that - especially from the outside looking in - it can certainly be argued that FD are making hay while the sun shines, to put it diplomatically. I've got several friends here in California who work for gaming companies like EA and 2K games, and have participated in several betas for them. There, the bloke on the podcast does have a point - when a title is in beta, it's a symbiotic relationship between the developer and the tester. The testers get to play a shiny new game without dipping into their wallets, and the developers get free part-time employees doing a fair whack of testing that they'd otherwise have to pay their staff to do.
During the Kickstarter phase it was one thing - back then people were indeed pledging money towards the development of a game, donating their cash, and in exchange were getting some goodies in return. As a result, FD not only met but exceeded their goal. Most people would think in that situation, the company would have said "Well, we got what we asked for, and quite a bit more, so we'll start working on the game now, those who backed us will get the perks we offered, and we'll see you down the road when the game is ready, but until then, you can preorder it online." Instead, the requests for premium prices have kept going, and indeed seem to have been pushed quite hard by the company, given their push to have people upgrade to Alpha from Premium Beta by offering half off insurance, and the promise of getting the releases prior to the other premium beta subscribers.
It is what it is though, and those that want it enough will pay the premium. I'm a massive fan of the Elite series - I blagged close to a thousand bucks on a refurbished Amiga 1200 so I could play Frontier, which I then sold and invested considerably more in a custom rig purely to play this on. My Saitek X52 Pro just arrived from Amazon, and when I get paid tomorrow, I'll probably fork over the dosh for Premium Beta. But even I, as biased as I am IN FAVOUR of Elite Dangerous, can certainly still see "Yeah, FD are being quite greedy here, and a bit cheeky." And can certainly see how those who are ambivalent towards the game would be a bit outraged at what was being asked.
The irony is that if Frontier had worded the whole thing differently - instead of SELLING Alpha and Beta after the backing period ended and simply continued to ask for donations with (fewer) perks in return, chances are there'd be no issues like this. Instead people like these lads from Sticktwiddlers would have simply said "Well, if you're willing to donate money to it, more power to you, we'll just wait for the final game."
I'm sorry Ubermick, but if people demand instant access to the Elite experience just as soon as possible, then they can stump up the cash for Alpha. There is nothing stopping them.
If they want 50% off their ship insurance, FD have stipulated that to qualify for that you need to have Alpha backing. If someone wants that - they are free to back to that level.
If they want to join in at Beta - there really isn't too long now to wait.
If they want to wait for the release, they can.
If someone cannot afford to back to a level they want, well, that is unfortunate but it's not the end of the world.
I want a Ducati, but unfortunately I'm going to have to wait for one. Am I all upset with the people currently riding Ducati's?
If they want 50% off their ship insurance, FD have stipulated that to qualify for that you need to have Alpha backing. If someone wants that - they are free to back to that level.
If they want to join in at Beta - there really isn't too long now to wait.
If they want to wait for the release, they can.
If someone cannot afford to back to a level they want, well, that is unfortunate but it's not the end of the world.
I want a Ducati, but unfortunately I'm going to have to wait for one. Am I all upset with the people currently riding Ducati's?
I agree completely. If people want it, buy it. If people don't want to pay, then don't pay. The issue for many of the Beta Backers (it seems) is that Alpha backers were promised delivery of their software in December, and they got it. Beta folks were promised delivery of their software in January, and are still waiting - and have now been told that the folks who paid more will get the beta a fortnight earlier, a tactic used by Frontier to upsell.
So while the people who don't have Ducatis shouldn't be upset with those who already have one is fair, I can also see why the people who ordered Ducatis, were promised delivery of their Ducati months back, and are now being told "If you want your Ducati now, pay even more than the agreed-upon price. Or just wait a few months while those with more money get to ride about on your Ducati for a fortnight before you get it. And if you're not happy with that, maybe you should have never thought about Ducatis in the first place and should stick to the bus." would be annoyed.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm not a Beta or Alpha backer. I wanted to hop in during the Kickstarter drive, but we had some financial stress while it was going on, and the belts in our house were tightened. I've not been on the forum long, just a fortnight or so - so am looking at this from the outside in. And while I agree that there's a certain amount of leeway that needs to be given during software development and some of the complaining is over the top, I can see why people feel like Frontier has shifted the goalposts somewhat, and can even be construed as holding the beta people hostage, in a way.
Ooop, anyways - not my intention of turning this thread into an alpha versus beta thread, there seems to be quite a few of them. Just saying that I can see where people without a vested interest in Elite Dangerous would think that there was a bit of a cash grab going on. Not to say they were over the top in their criticism of it, though.
They are working on the game, and "most people" are free not to purchase test access ... job done
For the other people who didn't get in at KS, and who want to get involved and think the price is worth it ... why not allow them to, and allow Frontier to get some benefit (both financial and in terms of testing)? Why is it the business of anyone else?
[The guys in the video clearly consider it their business because they prefer to access Alpha/Beta software (in general, not just ED) for free, as part of the "you scratch my back..." model they mentioned. In other words, they feel entitled to get their hands on this stuff without paying; their perceived entitlement was not met in this case; they raged out in an uncontrolled manner that led to them having to make apologies.]
I can sympathise - but they didn't order the same model of Ducati, or they would have stumped up for one. They shelled out for a slightly lower model perhaps, one that is still in development, with a later release date
I really think that some of you folks really need to lighten up.
I remember back in the day when it was sticks and stone can break my bones but names can never hurt me.
While it is obvious one ought not run into a crowded cinema and shout "fire" or incite murder over the radio as happened in Rwanda, it is absolutely ridiculous to get offended over opinionated hyperbole.
Are our skins so soft that we need to wear pillows as clothing?
I remember back in the day when it was sticks and stone can break my bones but names can never hurt me.
While it is obvious one ought not run into a crowded cinema and shout "fire" or incite murder over the radio as happened in Rwanda, it is absolutely ridiculous to get offended over opinionated hyperbole.
Are our skins so soft that we need to wear pillows as clothing?
I have noticed quite a few times, on these forums, how some members are so easily offended over trivial things.
Is this due to the high percentage of people from the UK on this board? I don't know for sure but I really hope not...
Is this due to the high percentage of people from the UK on this board? I don't know for sure but I really hope not...
You had better try and use that argument with forum moderation and profanity filters here then? I mean, clearly we are already wearing pillows yes?
Of course there is a cash grab by Frontier.
50% off lifetime insurance if you back the Alpha towards the end is an obvious pitch to get people to spend more money. I think one would have to be willfully ignorant to deny it.
Frontier exists to make money as well as games. There is nothing wrong with either in my opinion.
They got my money and good on them for getting it.
I am looking forward to a great game.
You had better try and use that argument with forum moderation and profanity filters here then? I mean, clearly we are already wearing pillows yes?
That is not the context of what I was alluding to. I didn't post in a thread objecting to profanity in the E: D forums.
I have noticed quite a few times, on these forums, how some members are so easily offended over trivial things.
Is this due to the high percentage of people from the UK on this board? I don't know for sure but I really hope not...
Is that meant to be some kind of slur against us British sir? I really hope not ...
:smilie:I wouldn't say it was a slur.
More of a lost in translation thing You wouldn't believe the ruckus caused here in the US by some yank using a "cool" word he'd heard on tv to try an liven things up.
Oh ignorance, how we love thee
More of a lost in translation thing
You wouldn't believe the ruckus caused here in the US by some yank using a "cool" word he'd heard on tv to try an liven things up.Oh ignorance, how we love thee