The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside

[Genar-Hofoen]

no, that is just the way you look at this game.

elite is multiplay open world sandbox game without limitations. if you want to be protected from other players, you choose SOLO and stop limiting other players. limit yoursellf.

You have a serious lack of understanding of this game my friend.

Regards o7

 

[Cosmos]

Well see, this is primarily a PvE game with PvP tacked onto it, for one, which explains the NPC's. See: original Elite games for reference as to NPC behaviour. Nothing surprising there. Playing the NPC card is a strawman, frankly. And besides which, the current state of NPC's in this game is ridiculously bugged in many ways - see the numerous threads about various NPC bug-ness joy.

Nah, thats just how you want to see it. Its an open world sandbox as DB would describe it, we can and should be able to play how we want. If you do find it so objectionable you can hop into solo or pg if you want to opt out of say an area thats got some hit squads operating in it.

You've taken that entirely out of context. There are wings of players out there who do nothing more than treat this supposed game of Elite like it was CQC, and you well know this. e.g. The Smiling Dog Crew, as one example of a bunch of players who go around in PvP-for-sport style, murdering anything with a heartbeat in an entirely out of context manner.

This renders your next bit null and void, therefore...

I don't think so if people want to play the game as a bunch of pschotic murderers thats their choice. I've been serially inderdicted by wings before too, I thought it was exciting particularly as I was out matched and numbered.. I escaped of course but it was fun.

You know this. I know this. Noob seal pups getting clubbed to death in Eravate won't know this.

I don't condone that, its counter productive and unfair on noobs. That said when you die in a starter sidey you don't lose much do you? But if new players can't be bothered to understand the game modes or read the manual thats not really anyone elses fault but their own.

OK fine you'd prefer that, more than you wouldn't. There are very good reasons for those modes to be kept, and less good reasons for them to be taken away. Not going to happen anyway.

I never liked the segregation. Just as much as I can't shoot at people I can't see or encounter, I also can't befriend them, come to their rescue, or offer an escort and so on. Lots of gameplay lost. However, I'm happy for solo and pg to stay provided you stop moaning about percieved 'gankers' and 'griefers'. Fair enough?

This is utter boulderdash and poppycock at the same time. All that is being asked for - repeatedly - is for dissuasion of treating the main game like it was ED: Arena. That's it.

I've said this before but the game can't be like Arena. The distribution of players throughout the galaxy means thats impossible. And frankly I rarely see players even when I am in populated space. So its not like Arena, and nor will it ever be.

You still seem to not understand that this is primarily a PvE game with multiplayer tacked onto it.

Well during early development the focus was mostly on a single player experience, but they dropped the solo offline game and have moved with the times. As it stands with Wings and the way FD have allowed for player minor factions I would argue the game can't be described the way you chose to anymore. So since its an open world game, a sandbox, its how anyone chooses to play it. If you want PvE only there are choices for you, if not then there is Open where people have the freedom to do whatever they want.

Ah. I get it. I think I have your number now.

And I'm not averse to shooting back where appropriate. Besides which, even my Exploration-fitted Clipper which had shields and guns wouldn't stand a chance against CMDR Rabid Kill-em-all-in-my-Fer De Lance-Lulz-Open-Is-Arena. (In fact it didn't, a few weeks ago.)

Regards o7

Not sure what you mean by that. I presume you are trying to malign or categorise how I play. I haven't had a battle with a player in the main game for ages, I went exploring. Seems to me you are upset because someone attacked you and destroyed your ship. Its a dangerous galaxy of course, one set against a backdrop of raw anarchy and powerplays. Btw you can fit the Clipper so it can outrun almost any other ship, bar the Cobra Mk III. Your bad I guess.

 

[Raylion]

if you want to be protected from other players, you choose SOLO and stop limiting other players. limit yoursellf.

Really?!?!? There's another thread with a poll which is roughly 50/50 regarding whether or not there should be a PVE mode and your solution is go hide away and play by yourself.

There is clearly an issue, it may not be an issue for you but it is for others...a PVE mode, a harsher ganking response or some other solution is needed otherwise you alienate a sizable proportion of the player base.

 

[mmike]

You have a serious lack of understanding of this game my friend.

this is... so... cheap to say
why would i have to be limited vith your tunnel vision?

 

[Deadspin]

Maybe that's a bad example, with speed laws and racing track days around. I understand your sentiment though

And no, you could not drive your Mustang on a circle track, since it sits in a corner and sulks everytime it sees a bend in a road

It won't let me give you any more rep. So here's a notional +1 to you good sir.

 

[mmike]

As for having everything they want in solo you're clearly missing the point. People want to play in open but they also want meaningful consequences for murder (or ship murder if you want to split hairs).

i have no problem with consequences, but you should be aware that people want to have a posibillity to kill someone no matter what consequences are.

 

[bootsam]

LOL @ people thinking Arena/CQC is a viable alternative to what has become the norm for PvP in this game.

That's like saying, "Hey, you like fast cars right? Well your fast driving scares me and I don't like it. Could you go drive that Mustang on that circle(jerk) track to get your speed thrills and leave your Lamborghini Aventador in the garage from now on please?"

Do you see how asinine that sounds?

Taking your example, I ride high powered exotic italian superbikes. I do not wheelie, stoppie, ride fast in cities, towns and villages. I choose the time and place when theres no-one about and even then I do not take the mick. I also do track days and thats when I take the mick. In short I ride responsibly. Because there are consequences. The health and safety of other road users and pedestrians, the rozzers and finally my own safety. Just use your brains people. Think of others before you selfishly think of yourself. BTW my license is 100% clean, no points. Despite 170BHP and 110ft.lbs measured at the rear wheel. So Mr Aventador should do the same 30mph that I do in towns and stop being a plonker.

 

[mmike]

Really?!?!? There's another thread with a poll which is roughly 50/50 regarding whether or not there should be a PVE mode and your solution is go hide away and play by yourself.

There is clearly an issue, it may not be an issue for you but it is for others...a PVE mode, a harsher ganking response or some other solution is needed otherwise you alienate a sizable proportion of the player base.

this game has pve mode. it is called SOLO.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nah, thats just how you want to see it. Its an open world sandbox as DB would describe it, we can and should be able to play how we want.

Of course. But you don't think that decision making should be involved? Play however you want, but at the same time, deal with the consequences of how you play.

At the moment, there are no consequences to killing other players just to kill other players. But there are consequences to going into an area where there's a hit squad active. So in the current situation, the receiving party deals with all the consequences while the delivering party hops in a sidey, gets blown to pieces and starts with a clean slate.

I feel there's a fault in the way Elite handles things when the instigating party stays consequence free.

 

[Deadspin]

Would you like a list of the thousands of MMO games that have split areas/servers for PvP? Easy to make a small list of everything and then claim every other game is not even to be considered because of quest types... I didn't know we were now talking about quests, nice try to deflect the argument but not biting as you well know that is nothing to do with the issue. Aunt Sallies are obvious.

Just a tiny sample of the games which do have both PvP and PvE but keep them clearly defined.
WoW, DDO, LOTRO, STO, Warhammer online, ESO, Conan... It's easier if I just leave this link: http://www.mmorpg.com/

Aaaaaand stop!

Every one of those is a true-to-form legit MMORPG. Elite Dangerous, as much as you may want it to be, is not an MMORPG. That first M stands for "Massively" by the way, just for those who didn't know and nothing about the multiplayer in Elite is "massive" in any way, shape or form. Second, there is no skill tree to level, no progression to be obtained (Aside from the very thin "rank" progression) and we're not running around in instances of 200-400 people like you can do and so often does happen in those games you mention.

Frontier built it as is. Maybe their relative lack of experience with games like this (of the multiplayer variety, that is) led to a massive oversight on their part. Maybe they've got something planned, who knows. Either way, it's not in the works yet and likely won't be for quite some time until they're finished working on the rest of the features and actually have time to devote to balancing out what less than 15% of the population thinks is a broken mechanic (Assumption based off of total copies of the game sold compared to active population on forum).

 

[Raylion]

this game has pve mode. it is called SOLO.

You know full well the thread I'm referring to is regarding an OPEN PVE mode...play dumb if you want but it weakens your own position.

 

[mmike]

You know full well the thread I'm referring to is regarding an OPEN PVE mode...play dumb if you want but it weakens your own position.

i am not playing dumb.

the problem is that you already have what you want, and now you are eager to change other things in game. things that other players want. is that ok? is that really ok?

 

[Cosmos]

Of course. But you don't think that decision making should be involved? Play however you want, but at the same time, deal with the consequences of how you play.

At the moment, there are no consequences to killing other players just to kill other players. But there are consequences to going into an area where there's a hit squad active. So in the current situation, the receiving party deals with all the consequences while the delivering party hops in a sidey, gets blown to pieces and starts with a clean slate.

I feel there's a fault in the way Elite handles things when the instigating party stays consequence free.

Yeah I think you make a fair point. The present criminal system is a bit pants but what some are suggesting is to effectively bar people from certain areas of space because they have a criminal record. A crime system should apply to all commanders regardless of being human or NPC. Btw.. surely EvE has a good solution to this with their implant tech?

 

[Sandmann]

Consensual piracy is glorified begging. Piracy is as much part of Elite as space itself, so I see no reason why David should spend much time on people who dont like the basic premise of the game. More consequences for crime should be added, but a 'piracy immunity toggle' is just not Elite.

Have to agree with you... which probably surprises you as much as it does me.

You shouldn't ever be IMMUNE from piracy in open (or in solo/group but that's another story about AI coding) and PvP flags/switches/etc would be a kludge, a very poor solution to a complex issue, but there ARE areas where it should be more or less likely, where consequences should be higher or lower, and where rewards for traders/miners who take the risk should be higher than for those who stick to the safer areas.

 

[Deadspin]

Of course. But you don't think that decision making should be involved? Play however you want, but at the same time, deal with the consequences of how you play.

At the moment, there are no consequences to killing other players just to kill other players. But there are consequences to going into an area where there's a hit squad active. So in the current situation, the receiving party deals with all the consequences while the delivering party hops in a sidey, gets blown to pieces and starts with a clean slate.
I feel there's a fault in the way Elite handles things when the instigating party stays consequence free.

Only babies who can't handle having a bounty pull that move. It's too bad Fdev put a cap on bounty payouts on players too. I've got over 40 million in bounties on me right now.

(only a few hundred k of that comes from pvp)

 

[Sandmann]

Frontier built it as is. Maybe their relative lack of experience with games like this (of the multiplayer variety, that is) led to a massive oversight on their part. Maybe they've got something planned, who knows. Either way, it's not in the works yet and likely won't be for quite some time until they're finished working on the rest of the features and actually have time to devote to balancing out what less than 15% of the population thinks is a broken mechanic (Assumption based off of total copies of the game sold compared to active population on forum).

... or just maybe, they MEANT what they said when they described what they wanted the game to be in all the videos etc and it was never intended as a primarilly PvP oriented MMORG (which is WHY it's such a terribly designed PvP game)?

 

[mmike]

well, it would be logical that there are protected trade routes where a serious police wing (anakonda, maybe vulture, few vipers and eagles) comes 10 secs after interdiction. but it wouldn't protect you if someone really wants to flush you away.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

they could always just add a bonus to bonds and bounties earned in a wing against rats and defense forces.

Really eventually I would like them to go alongside even Federal or Imperial Blockades of whole Star Systems.

Personally I play in both open and solo, however I dont go out of my way to interdict a guy who's in a hostile power, because I know that whoever the pilot is just trying to make a buck.

Speaking of Powerplay, they could add more ranks inbetween and promote open play in some of them as a small incentive couldn't they by combining forces?

 

[Raylion]

i am not playing dumb.

the problem is that you already have what you want, and now you are eager to change other thing in games. things that other players want. is that ok? is that really ok?

No, you've got that the wrong way around...you have what you want and are totally against the status quo changing.

I never had what I wanted, I play in Solo and want to play a cooperative game without PVP...what I want is an Open PVE mode so I can move out of Solo and into that. It seems others would like a similar thing too but you don't want that...is that ok? is that really ok?

 

[mistohise]

i am not playing dumb.

the problem is that you already have what you want, and now you are eager to change other things in game. things that other players want. is that ok? is that really ok?

It seems to me that what "other players want" is the ability to have people in open mode to act as victims to piracy and random acts of violence. Your superb suggestions of "go to solo" don't really help in that regard, at all.

Folk are making suggestions to try to change things in the game in order to try to fix that and allow all sets of people to co-exist in open. I'm not clear on why anyone would not want that.