I have the feeling you missed my OP then, because i already suggested that (in a very similar way) there. (no offense
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The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside
- Thread starter rckstr
- Start date
I have the feeling you missed my OP then, because i already suggested that (in a very similar way) there. (no offense
)
Right. So there can be some game mechanic that allows people to transgress the wanted locks, but it shouldn't be easy to acquire. With all this talk of engineers, maybe it could be a thing that a specific sort of engineer might offer occasionally. Limited use, rare, yadda yadda.
i think, we should share experiences, and maybe even change side for a moment:
- "there are no consequences for killing clean commander/npc's" - this is not true. there are more consequences ingame now, than before. as described above, i flew around with a bounty of 300 k - 600 k for weeks with a new account (who isn't stinking rich, and for dark arts bgs influencing). you'll have a lot of interdictions by system sec, with ships spawning for that (vultures, anacondas, sometimes in wings). if i'd be a harmless pilot, and not a harmless account, i'd be dead often. finally i was only able to get my bloody work done flying a vulture or fdl - in cobra or courier i was all time running away
- those procedural consequences aren't very lasting. 2 missions (1 charity, 1 delivery) brought me back to unfriendly.
- i was very much acying a psychotic murder, for a cause. should there be a difference between crimes against npc and crimes against cmdr's? some player will say yes, some player will say no. i'm on the "no-side" - i want a persitent galaxy between all modes. if you are looking at that from this perspective, scaling consequences of crimes gets problematic - took an assassination mission, and be followed through the galaxy by avenger wings? i might like it, most players won't
- "there are no consequences for killing clean commander/npc's" - this is not true. there are more consequences ingame now, than before. as described above, i flew around with a bounty of 300 k - 600 k for weeks with a new account (who isn't stinking rich, and for dark arts bgs influencing). you'll have a lot of interdictions by system sec, with ships spawning for that (vultures, anacondas, sometimes in wings). if i'd be a harmless pilot, and not a harmless account, i'd be dead often. finally i was only able to get my bloody work done flying a vulture or fdl - in cobra or courier i was all time running away
- those procedural consequences aren't very lasting. 2 missions (1 charity, 1 delivery) brought me back to unfriendly.
- i was very much acying a psychotic murder, for a cause. should there be a difference between crimes against npc and crimes against cmdr's? some player will say yes, some player will say no. i'm on the "no-side" - i want a persitent galaxy between all modes. if you are looking at that from this perspective, scaling consequences of crimes gets problematic - took an assassination mission, and be followed through the galaxy by avenger wings? i might like it, most players won't
Actually quite a few of the games I mentioned are limited in their PvP scope to low number. Plus FD do try to call this an MMO - which I don't consider it to be either. I only mentioned them to try and show another poster that the comment he was making were just not the facts he was portraying them as, alas though it appears he is not open for debate but would rather keep a closed mind.
As for the balancing. FD will be gathering data from the entire population via the server back end.
Personally I've got better things to do with my day. I know what a pure PvP game is meant to be and as so many have poited out, yourself included this is not by any stretch of the imagination a PvP game. It allows it sure but this has been built from the ground up as PvE with room for the other. I can see so much missed potential for CQC/Arena/PvP in the main game - I just cannot put all my ideas forward, only agree with others.
Most of those system locks are there simply to provide a reward for completing rank progressions, since there's currently very little other other reason to do the military thing. A few are there to keep us out of systems/areas where they've got things planned for the future. I doubt they'd supply ways to circumvent the locks since then there'd be even less reason to do the military thing.
But there's no point in a consequence system that says "there are consequences, but once you're rich enough to fly a powerful ship there's basically no consequences, because you can blow away the police and carry on." The response has to scale-up.
Mmmm, more non-consensual fights against ppl who do not want to fight...
My first and strongest recommendation is, that you play EvE Online instead!
Just look in what state EvE Online is and what the playerbase in the forums is.
If you want to kill your game, do what CCP does.
Its so easy: You want PvP play? Play with other PvPlers!
You want gank MMO loving non PvPlers? Go play EvE online.
In my years of EvE experience the biggest group of those PvP-anyone in hisec, are ppl who just want to kill the fun of other gamers.
And THAT is just a big NONO!
In my opinion those ppl demanding non-consensual PvP, because they do not get enough kills otherwise. And the main reason for this is, they are so very bad at PvP, that they are desperate for easy Non-NPC targets.
If you still insist on that, my conclusion is, that you should be hunted harshly by elite NPCs. Just putting bounty on their heads will just lead to abuse.
My first and strongest recommendation is, that you play EvE Online instead!
Just look in what state EvE Online is and what the playerbase in the forums is.
If you want to kill your game, do what CCP does.
Its so easy: You want PvP play? Play with other PvPlers!
You want gank MMO loving non PvPlers? Go play EvE online.
In my years of EvE experience the biggest group of those PvP-anyone in hisec, are ppl who just want to kill the fun of other gamers.
And THAT is just a big NONO!
In my opinion those ppl demanding non-consensual PvP, because they do not get enough kills otherwise. And the main reason for this is, they are so very bad at PvP, that they are desperate for easy Non-NPC targets.
If you still insist on that, my conclusion is, that you should be hunted harshly by elite NPCs. Just putting bounty on their heads will just lead to abuse.
Different types of lock, innit? They'd only bypass the wanted locks. (hey, don't look at me, I didn't design the permit lock system...
Because if a CMDR is attacking me for a valid game outcome... Fine...
If he's doing it just for the lolz... Not fine... Sorry, but I really don't see the benefit in the game turning a blind eye to pointless ganking, trolling, bullying, which is quite probably giving the instigator enjoyment purely because of the aggrivation its causing the victim... Why is he specifically picking on another CMDR rather than the far easier NPC prey all around? If he's after a challenge surely better he instead fights against someone who is actually also interested in Pvp than a CMDR he's randomly interdicted in a Hauler!
In summary again. If a solid number of viable consensual PvP mechanics are put in place, I have trouble seeing why people should complain if "illegal destruction" of a Pilots Federation member is then come down on insanely harshly.
Why not give meaning and cause and effect to Pvp? Give missions to one Faction to get cargo to a system (in OPEN). Give missions to the other faction to prevent it. Measure the effectiveness... Surely we want to see Wings of CMDRs made up of a couple trading ships and combat craft trying to get to a destination (in OPEN), with Wings of other CMDRs trying to stop them? Create the missions/task structure to make this happen then!
If CMDRs want to also do similar stuff in SOLO/GROUP (what ever you call it) let them, and simply distiguish between the two very different stats. Promote and reward PvP!
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We're talking about locks like on the Sol & Achenar systems where you need a permit to enter the system, right?Different types of lock, innit? They'd only bypass the wanted locks. (hey, don't look at me, I didn't design the permit lock system...
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It'd be the same effect, but a wanted lock would be implemented differently within the game universe. So a widget allowing you to bypass one would not necessarily allow you to bypass the other.
I play exclusively open, more than 1000 hours. Got around 4000 kils, with less than teo dozen being cmdrs. PvP accounts for less than 0.5% of encounters, so its clearly primarily pve. I have winged up with up with friends and strangers for +-150 hours, so 99% of human interaction is coop.
So yes, Open is mostly pve, and interaction is mostly coop. Consequences should be increased, which FD already said. Don't try and tell me you get into hundreds of PvP battles a month with none wanting to play coop with you...
First problem would be to actually have enough participants- but that's not the exploit.
The exploit would be that me and my friends would accept the mission to kill each other and claim the reward. Once i would loose the fight/ missions, once another friend and so on. Since the reward has to be truly rewarding or else such missions would be ignored, people could abuse them to their benefit. Also the fact that the galaxy is too big to be bothered by a stranger while doing this only makes it easier to abuse/exploit.
While participating in PP it is obvious who is the enemy. If i see trading ships inside a control system of my enemy i am very certain that they are fortifying which gives me a reason to attack them. I know that it sounds far fetched to transfer this on a clean trader in a random system not involved in PP, but fact is that the trader affects the BGS and adds, although very little, support to the controlling faction. If my goal is to weaken the controlling faction, it is reasonable to hurt their supporters (even if they don't have the intention to support). I am very well aware that the effect on the BGS with such an act is little to none- but there are people that stop at nothing to achieve their goal.
That's all well and good. However, there's a complete imbalance in the consequences for perpetrator and victim;
Consequences for perpetrator == "being chased by NPCs" and a fine.
Consequences for victim == "OMG I just lost X hundred million worth of <exploration data/cargo/whatever>, let alone X Cr of ship! Also my time generating all this stuff I just lost has been robbed!". The time element is an important one, this is especially true for Explorers. On a side-note, can we have Exploration Insurance, FDEV?
tl;dr : perp gets off lightly compared to the utter devastation that can be caused to the victim.
Regards o7
Well.. Who cares? If the rest of the universe actually works fine, what you and your friend do to earn credits between yourselves really shouldn't matter to anyone else.
Indeed...
...and if the game offered misssions/tasks to attack X, defend Y, escort Z, and you knew these sort of missions might involve PvP, because other CMDRs might be getting counter missions, surely this would be a good thing?
Rather than hunting around for hard to find PvP, the game offers far easier methods of engaging in it, in more interesting ways... And it's all entirely optional...
Let the game create/offer more viable mechanics for consensual constructive interesting Pvp, and remove/reduce the options for mindless ganking/trolling.
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Sorry my bad - I completely misinterpreted what you said. Just re-read it now, and on reflection yes I agree with it. Again. That's twice in one night, gotta be a record.
I care and i can only guess that many others would care too. Such a mission type would be the next Robigo which already gets abused to the max. It adds an artificial inflation. Those who abuse the mechanic become ultra rich in no time, others that don't abuse stay "poor". This would create a "financial imbalance", followed by even more "i don't care because i'm rich" behavior.
If and when you see another CMDR and you immediately think 'attack', it should ring alarm bells in your bonce. In a civilised society, if anyone went around randomly killing strangers, the police and society would hunt you down as a matter of priority. What attacking everyone means is anarchy, no law and order. But we have high security systems and thus these random killings should also ring alarm bells and have the feds chasing you relentlessly. Killers should only feel relatively safe in an anarchy system. Once theyre in a secure system, they should be attracting the immediate and lethal attention of the feds for their duration in that system.
When I see another CMDR, I think 'hello, how are you? or o7 CMDR ', I do not think "die!". Granted the mechanism for psychos exist, it exists in real life too. But how many of you ingame psychos are like that in reality? How long do you think you'd last in reality behaving like that? But it appears you can exist like that in ED forever and continue to without recourse to law and order. Its this disparity that keeps players from playing open. Now If I was in an unarmed trader and I was trading in an anarchy, pvp by a psycho is fair enough. However I do not expect to be murdered in a high security system with feds everywhere.
Wanted players should attract the feds in a secure system like flies round a cow pat. But currently they are as free to wander as everyone else. There are no consequences whatsoever for their actions. None. There are, however, huge consequences for the trader.
I believe open may become an anarchy and a no-go zone for the general game populace.
When I see another CMDR, I think 'hello, how are you?
or o7 CMDR ', I do not think "die!". Granted the mechanism for psychos exist, it exists in real life too. But how many of you ingame psychos are like that in reality? How long do you think you'd last in reality behaving like that? But it appears you can exist like that in ED forever and continue to without recourse to law and order. Its this disparity that keeps players from playing open. Now If I was in an unarmed trader and I was trading in an anarchy, pvp by a psycho is fair enough. However I do not expect to be murdered in a high security system with feds everywhere.Wanted players should attract the feds in a secure system like flies round a cow pat. But currently they are as free to wander as everyone else. There are no consequences whatsoever for their actions. None. There are, however, huge consequences for the trader.
I believe open may become an anarchy and a no-go zone for the general game populace.