Open letter to Frontier

[Kristov]

Check CMDR name - on google, youtube, forums, reddit, whatever. Check forum history. Check other group members for feedback. Check IP.

It's a little bit like a standard background check you do on potential employees. Anything fishy - you either decline them or take a chance. A bit like everything in life really

Exactly, I know at my job we do a google check and facebook check on anyone who applies for a job, first thing we do before we check with former employers(who can't legally tell us jack anyway) or any references(who will probably lie). Let me just say, if you are looking for a job and your facebook is set to public and has pictures of you holding drugs, flashing gang signs, spouting racists , or anything else you wouldn't want your employer to know, you ain't getting a callback

Same thing for vetting a player, youtube, google, facebook, reddit, these forums, the forums of known 'pirate' groups, see what pops up, if anything. Easy, all public domain, no legal issues at all, no special training, skills, knowledge or software/hardware required. I'm in IT, I can get a LOT more indepth if I so desire legally, won't even touch on what friends in other countries can find out for me, privacy laws aren't the same everywhere you know, nor do some countries have laws about getting that information in the first place. Mobius has 20k+ people to ask to help him do this, really shouldn't have ever happened after the 1st time, much less the 3rd or 4th time.

 

[New Duke]

I bet you real hard cash you've never employed anyone And if you've been employed by footsies who never checked your credentials, that's not your fault - it's the HR and corporate law departments at the footsie that were negligent.

True, but if the admins are volunteers, then I prefer to be grateful they're even there! I love the Mobius group.

Have employed many folks, of course I always check them... but then I have a monetary incentive to. (That's me spinning it on FD again )

 

[kofeyh]

Oh come on. These are volunteers who admin with Mobius. That would take forever. I've been employed by FTSE100 companies that never checked my details.

Nobody is to blame but FD for this. It's their game.

(EDIT: for those assuming that anything wrong happened at all)

It's not frontier's fault. The game has never featured a truly group-based PVE. If you want genuine PVE, then solo is the solution. Anything else including humans, includes the chance of combat.

I am tired of people stating a supposed 'fact', that Mobius is some kind of PVE. It's not. It's a private group with a punch of people in it & some rules around combat; some have either been deluded into, or simply not understanding that that is, still, basically a mini-version of Open, where the same rules of engagement apply.

It's purely a 'gentle-persons agreement' that combat should not occur between commanders and bans from the group are the stick.

Yes, the purpose is peaceful co-existence, and that's a lovely, laudable Star Trek like goal. But just like Star Trek and anywhere else, for that matter, there is risk. There are other people. For heaves sake what are people going to do when the big bad finally show up?

Mobius has simply become to big to manage; it's become the "de-facto" for people claiming it's safe and special and so important Frontier should create an entire game mode for it. Well, sometimes it won't be. No group that becomes too large to sensibly manage is.

The [redacted] of it is, is that humans prefer to clump. To group up. They like company (and those who hate it? I suggest Solo). And some humans like to challenge other humans.

So let's not blame Frontier for the actions of some people against other people. They (frontier) built the game, but we as commanders inhabit it. Blame shifting, be it against the developer, or the victim, is unnecessary and, frankly, bad form.

 

[Don Alvarez]

I'm sorry that the pvp group thought it was a good idea to attack players that weren't prepared to fight back, and most likely had no intention to. Now I suspect many of the Mobius players will move to solo, which is a major blow to PvE in Elite.

Welcome to a playerbase gone mad.

 

[New Duke]

It's not frontier's fault. The game has never featured a truly group-based PVE. If you want genuine PVE, then solo is the solution. Anything else including humans, includes the chance of combat.

I am tired of people stating a supposed 'fact', that Mobius is some kind of PVE. It's not. It's a private group with a punch of people in it & some rules around combat; some have either been deluded into, or simply not understanding that that is, still, basically a mini-version of Open, where the same rules of engagement apply.

It's purely a 'gentle-persons agreement' that combat should not occur between commanders and bans from the group are the stick.

Yes, the purpose is peaceful co-existence, and that's a lovely, laudable Star Trek like goal. But just like Star Trek and anywhere else, for that matter, there is risk. There are other people. For heaves sake what are people going to do when the big bad finally show up?

Mobius has simply become to big to manage; it's become the "de-facto" for people claiming it's safe and special and so important Frontier should create an entire game mode for it. Well, sometimes it won't be. No group that becomes too large to sensibly manage is.

The [redacted] of it is, is that humans prefer to clump. To group up. They like company (and those who hate it? I suggest Solo). And some humans like to challenge other humans.

So let's not blame Frontier for the actions of some people against other people. They (frontier) built the game, but we as commanders inhabit it. Blame shifting, be it against the developer, or the victim, is unnecessary and, frankly, bad form.

So everyone who doesn't want to get gang jumped should just take it open (where FD have said murder is totally fine) or head to solo... alone. Got it.
Be interesting to see how long the game lives.

 

[Don Alvarez]

So "ED will not survive long if it does not cater more to PvP" has now been joined by " ED will not survive long if it does not cater more to PvE", it would seem.

 

[kofeyh]

So everyone who doesn't want to get gang jumped should just take it open (where FD have said murder is totally fine) or head to solo... alone. Got it.
Be interesting to see how long the game lives.

There is some belief that everyone will be killed instantly 24/7 in open. This could not be further from the truth. The reality is that PVP is rare, but does happen.

Particularly if you join a powerplay faction (which presumably anyone does, because they wish to partake in combat at some point). And or insist on staying in starter systems or spend a lot of time with no shields running stuff to CG locations.

As usual the knee-jerk reaction is "everyone will just die 24/7 in open! sky falling!". As opposed to actuality, which is somewhere in the middle.

Frontier have yet to decide if they will introduce a true PVE experience, this is non-trivial work, as I understand it, and would mean mechanics changes to ensure PVP is not possible. It also means additional work for Frontier to manage the additional servers required, and the additional work load of managing the entire thing.

They may well do that, but until that time, regardless of which private group you join, the assumption you will never be shot at by another commander, is a flawed one. To expect that to never happen, honestly doesn't strike me as sensible. It's very easy to become over-confident based on false security; and the way Mobius has been portrayed of late, hasn't helped it in the slightest.

 

[New Duke]

So "ED will not survive long if it does not cater more to PvP" has now been joined by " ED will not survive long if it does not cater more to PvE", it would seem.

Not exactly. But if Mobius really has become so popular then not giving customers what they want would be a strange/unhealthy business move that's all I'm saying. If it's only a couple of thousand people then it doesn't really matter. If it's more like 500,000, then I suggest it does. I don't know the membership size.

Doesn't Elite already have PvP in both Open and CQC? There isn't a PvE option (according to Zac's statement) so I don't know why they're compared in this game. E: D is PvP or Solo (and I'm cool with that personally).

 

[DerthGerps]

This entire thread is hilarious. Thank you for this.

Fly salty o7

CMDR DeathGrips - Smiling Dog Crew

 

[New Duke]

There is some belief that everyone will be killed instantly 24/7 in open. This could not be further from the truth. The reality is that PVP is rare, but does happen...

I disagree. Try flying a trade ship around a CG in Open and you can murdered multiple times buy the same group in the same night. It's the instance lottery. Has happened to me a few times. CGs in Open have often been a slaughter, pushing traders to Mobius or Solo (like me and others in the CG thread).

Yes it's less frequent in other areas and I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[metatheurgist]

From the other similar thread...

Partially quoting what Zac stated;



I'm finding it extremely difficult to reconcile the parts I've highlighted. It makes no sense to me.

Either FDEV maintains the stance that "griefing in itself isn't against the rules", or FDEV takes "creating a friendly and enjoyable game experience" very seriously.

To me, the two are mutually exclusive attitudes. I'm confused. Please help me sort this out in my head!

Yes, very confused. Naming and shaming aren't allowed (which would be a valid way for the Mobius community to easily maintain a kill list), but griefing is acceptable.

 

[Asp Explorer]

E: D is PvP or Solo (and I'm cool with that personally).

Elite is both at the same time depending upon player choice.

If an insufferable try-hard pew-pew-Pro-Bro puke appears in anyones game they are not welcome in - they are easily nullified.

FD may not like that reaction, most players would not like that reaction, hell even I don't like that reaction - but it's trivial and there is sweet flight assist the pew-pews can do about it.

Understandably - naming and shaming is not allowed on the forums.

Nothing is preventing Mobius from publishing octets on his own private forum.

 

[dreamer1986]

It's not frontier's fault. The game has never featured a truly group-based PVE. If you want genuine PVE, then solo is the solution. Anything else including humans, includes the chance of combat.

I am tired of people stating a supposed 'fact', that Mobius is some kind of PVE. It's not. It's a private group with a punch of people in it & some rules around combat; some have either been deluded into, or simply not understanding that that is, still, basically a mini-version of Open, where the same rules of engagement apply.

Well, I've been in Mobius for a year I think, and never been attacked by another player, and it feels normal to be like this. I start the game in Mobius, trade, do CG, interact a little, and I know that this is PvE, it feel and plays like it. That was the normal feeling for a very long time, so your assumptions are wrong, PvE was the reality in Mobius.

 

[kofeyh]

I disagree. Try flying a trade ship around a CG in Open and you can murdered multiple times buy the same group in the same night. It's the instance lottery. Has happened to me a few times. CGs in Open have often been a slaughter, pushing traders to Mobius or Solo (like me and others in the CG thread).

Yes it's less frequent in other areas and I agree with the rest of your post.

What did I just say about flying into a CG? Here's the thing. Other people will be there. That's by design. That is what Frontier want. A community event. Where people may be good. Or may be salty pirates. Or homicidal maniacs. It's nice to think you can just fly in/ out with zero risk.

But it's not designed to be that way. Assuming that it is; is flawed. I've done a few, as a trader. And a miner. No one cares about miners by the way. Almost up there with explorers on the not cared about list.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Well, I've been in Mobius for a year I think, and never been attacked by another player, and it feels normal to be like this. I start the game in Mobius, trade, do CG, interact a little, and I know that this is PvE, it feel and plays like it. That was the normal feeling for a very long time, so your assumptions are wrong, PvE was the reality in Mobius.

PVP chance > 0 whilst in a private group. It doesn't matter which one. Mobius has rules and will ban people; but it is reactive, not pro-active. People will still be at risk.

This is a classic example of "false security". Believing a thing cannot happen because it hasn't happened for a period of time. That's less to do with game mechanics, and more about human nature.

Why do you think there is usually a "protect the traders/ hunt pirates" CG at the same sector, typically? They exist to help encourage CMDRs to actually protect transports as they jump in; instead people just run to the nearest RES site and farm.

Why? Well. Good question that, hey. So again, that says more about human nature, than it does about mankind's ability to protect it's own.

Fly safe, CMDR.

 

[Deareim]

Just drop it guys. You are just bringing attention to uninteresting people. They will disapear with time.
Sit on it and continue to play. Mobius is a great place to play so enjoy it.

Regarding FD answer, well... It is FD communication, like their game mechanics, broken.

Private group management will never be enhanced for simple reason that FD doesn't want big private group.

 

[Asp Explorer]

This entire thread is hilarious. Thank you for this.

Fly salty o7

CMDR DeathGrips - Smiling Dog Crew

How do you like your orange Fanta?

 

[DerthGerps]

How do you like your orange Fanta?

With extra salt. Thank you for keeping that in high supply.

 

[Cynaqq]

Haha, be careful with the sodium intake. You don't want to have cardiovascular problems when you are thirteen.

With extra salt. Thank you for keeping that in high supply.

 

[Faded Glory]

How could it be Mobius' fault that someone has YET AGAIN infiltrated his private group when he has failed to implement ANY form of vetting? Is that a serious question? The honor system has obviously NOT worked, HOW many times has this exact same event happened now?

Well, I guess if the honor system doesn't work then FD should look into providing a mode that doesn't rely on that, one where player on player damage is either not possible, or inflicts damage on the attacker, not the attacked.

It's happened a few times, and depending on who you are listening to it's a disaster, or something as rare as... something very rare. Kind of like PvP in Open.

Personally, I don't expect a player, a customer, to have to spend his time actively vetting people, no matter how trivial you say it may be. He's not paid to do that, in fact he has paid to play the game.

It's fine if FD don't want a PvE mode. Then they should just say so and be done with it. And I genuinely don't think Mobius players want 'revenge', I think they would just like to be able to play the game the way they want to. Presumably if they wanted to go around shooting other players they wouldn't be in Mobius.

 

[DerthGerps]

Haha, be careful with the sodium intake. You don't want to have cardiovascular problems when you are thirteen.

Thanks!

See, I knew I came here for a reason.

Seems to be an abundance of sodium experts.