If you broke into my house and I escaped into my panic room to where you couldn't get me is that ok? Who invaded who here? Some players will not tolerate it, and in reality if you broke into my house, better expect a load of .00 too the face. I wouldn't have combat logged I would have defended myself to the very end, SDC is in the wrong here not the ones who avoided it by combat logging.
Open letter to Frontier
- Thread starter Cowboy Bats
- Start date
- Status
If you broke into my house and I escaped into my panic room to where you couldn't get me is that ok? Who invaded who here? Some players will not tolerate it, and in reality if you broke into my house, better expect a load of .00 too the face. I wouldn't have combat logged I would have defended myself to the very end, SDC is in the wrong here not the ones who avoided it by combat logging.
1) Bad network connection wont only drop you when in combat - it will drop you at random times. I know, I use a Netgear WNDA3100 v2 USB, look it up. It's bad.
So if a disconnect log shows a person dropping only when in combat and no other time... it is REALLY safe to say that person is a combat logger.
2) What people say they do and what they actually do are 2 different things. Which cannot be proven either way by FD.
Your turn to try again
What you're struggling with is that that's not the argument that was made.
I dropped that, and I ask you to extend the same courtesy and not take parting shots.
Never mind bragging about it: If FD was serious about frowning on third-party trading sites then the first people in the firing line would be the authors/developers of said sites.
Now we all know who they are and they are still around so, as you said, it's all above board.
1) Bad network connection wont only drop you when in combat - it will drop you at random times. I know, I use a Netgear WNDA3100 v2 USB, look it up. It's bad.
So if a disconnect log shows a person dropping only when in combat and no other time... it is REALLY safe to say that person is a combat logger.
2) What people say they do and what they actually do are 2 different things. Which cannot be proven either way by FD.
Your turn to try again
What if a player is always involved in combat? What if he legitimately loses connection often while in combat? What if a smart logger randomly drops his network at benign times to throw FD off his scent? You can talk trends all you want, but there's no way to tell a difference functionally. So this can't be proven by FD either.
The fact is that FD hasn't even really spoken out against third party trading tools, let alone threatened bans or anything. Entire threads discussing how to use trading tools and where to find them would be locked if that were the case.
So, why is combat logging actually against the rules?
"If you do <thing in real life>" is not the same as doing something in a game.
-------
Also, from https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/description
Currently we only have private groups implemented.
From the original Kickstarter campaign description, private groups are intended to be used by you and your friends. Not for 20,000+ random people who don't know each other.
Mobius is trying to use the private group concept to create an 'open group', and his tenacity is to be admired, but until FD implement open groups then Mobius players will have to accept that these incursions, while unfortunate, will happen.
The infiltrators have been banned from the group due to their antisocial behaviour, so really everything that has happened is within the parameters defined by the original Kickstarter description.
We're just waiting on open groups... :-/
Morally they are both in the wrong.
But SDC did not use external software or web sites. They did not interfere with the running of the game.
They played the game Frontier supplied - and despite my asking / demanding / shouting for a PvE mode, Frontier have never supplied one.
So SDC, just like a dozen other people who invaded the Mobius Group over the past year - did not break any of Frontiers rules.
Those who combat logged however, did break Frontiers rules.
While you are correct by the letter of the law, you're offbase by the spirit of it. SDC got into a private group decieptfully and engaged in a practice banned from that group. Those who engaged in combat logging to avoid it are no more in the wrong than any person who breaks a minor rule for their own greater safety, which is why fd were "disappointed" with SDC but said nothing about the combat loggers. By breaking the group's rules, SDC provoked mobius members into combat logging in an environment where the rule about it is irrelevant until somelike like SDC does what they did.
Last edited:
Wait, how are combat loggers morally in the wrong?
You would lose PP Merits, mission cargo, missions etc etc. All of which have a reasonable impact on the entire galaxy / BGS.
Nope. Why do you ask?
The only reason seems to be that it interferes with a PvP'ers sense of 'enjoyment' of the game. This decision, it seems, has been taken in a vacuum, ignoring the other side of the scenario, especially in a non-consensual engagement. There is certainly no monetary gain to be had in destroying a vessel, nor anything else that I can think of.
So, diddle with a PvP'er by stealing his kill via combat logging and you're a cheat. It sort of reminds me of me being labelled a cheat if I manage to open the gates in a canned hunt..........I am after all taking away the hunter's 'enjoyment' of the kill, sort of exactly what is happening with the PvP'er......he is sad because his easy meal vanished and hunter is sad that his easy shot vanished.
FD should really sort this mess out.
No, there are consequences programmed into the game for that. :->
It's not an oops for an explorer to be in open - many/most explorers prefer to choose Open for their journey because chancing across fellow explorers out in the deep is a fun rare event. Meeting a hostile person that has no interaction motive other than to make the world a more miserable place despite nothing to gain from it - that didn't used to be much of a risk, but it scales with the number of players trying to upset people because they're bored or whatever. So a griefing incident damages Elite's appeal to explorer-players in two ways - blowing up an explorer's weeks of work unprovoked obviously has a big effect on the explorer directly affected, but it also pushes more explorers into Solo, which reduces the positive human interactions available in the game for explorers, making the game a bit more boring. And "boring" is a quality that Elite really doesn't need enhancing :-/
I guess it's a vicious cycle: some players get bored, of those bored players, some are inclined to try to get kicks from upsetting people. Upsetting people causes more players to leave Open, and the more barren a wasteland that Open becomes, the more players get bored... and the cycle tightens, and Elite gets increasingly strangled by both poison and abandonment.
(I want Elite to continue to get developed, but because there is no subscription fee the money to fund ongoing development is new players, but people don't buy the game when they hear that the multiplayer is nasty, and that's the word that's increasingly getting out, so I hope that roller coaster planet makes a lot of money because some players are working really hard to remove the shine from Elite. There have even been cases of people apparently intentionally trying to poison the well for other people because they hate FDev and are trying to hurt Elite.)
We can't have nice things because we key each other's cars.
Last edited:
Semantics. Point is not all rules are in the EULA.
FDev have stated that they feel combat logging isn't valid gameplay, and regardless of whether it's moral or not them's the facts. While it hasn't been explicitly acknowledged however, the rule becomes irrelevant in a group like mobius' under normal circumstances, because it's only purpose is to stop players avoiding death by pvp and there's not supposed to be pvp in mobius. It was introduced by deciept and against group rules, but within FD's. Realistically SDC are exploiting the fact that FD haven't MADE a ruling about this situation.
So TECHNICALLY the combat loggers broke a rule that was irrelevant in their circumstance because they were provoked by a group exploiting a loophole.
Last edited:
i deserve credits for making it that far with way less jump range as the shieldless asp. + he wouldnt drop cargo and on top that was flying a freaking anaconda , i can only dream about that much credits for a exploring ship lol still saving for a decent fas. if you get that upset with a video game i suggest the same , go see somone.
I also didnt break any rules
I don't, I love a good scrap, but I'm aware that others do. Building a sandcastle is just a game too but if one of my kids kicked another kids sandcastle over I'd worry about them.. Pop along to Eravate and we'll give you a bit of real PVP. You might not like it ;-)
For a start, wasn't having a "shot" Ziggy.
But it was the argument you made, you said yourself you were lumping the two together;
Bypassing the games exit timer when in combat is against the rules as it is cheating. Cheats deserve to be banned, for good.
Joining a private group for the sole purpose of shooting members of that group, is not against the games rules (or Frontiers) and does not bypass any game mechanic, it may bypass all sense of decency - but it is not down to FD to make people be nice.
Half the issue here is people are told about a PvE Group... there is no such thing in Elite: Dangerous.
Frontier have never made a PvE group, so perhaps players should stop advertising something that does not exist.
So what you're saying is, someone can always be 100% of their time "in combat"... no having to travel to stations to log in / out or get repairs / ammo.... just login, combat until bored, logout (legitimately) in the fight until next time.
And they will never, ever, ever have the chance of a sudden connection drop anywhere but in that fight they never have to leave?
As much as you want to dress it up, FD can sniff out most Combat Loggers - the punishment is shadow banning.... so not really a punishment, you just get to play with other cheaters.... CL racing? who can log first. lol.
I've explained why CL is wrong, FD have explained it - if you don't like the rules, don't click "Play", really is that simple.
- Status