Open letter to Frontier

[Nerwan]

yeah , some dude was also not happy he met me at Sagg A , oops still in open... I think you right , explorers CAN loose/lose the most.

Hard to understand the motivation for attacking people at sag A.. Given that it's a horrible amount of effort getting there the only possible motivation for going there to attack people would be to really ruin someone's day. It suggests you're a bit of a bully who takes pleasure from upsetting others (you should probably go see someone).. albeit a really dedicated one since the effort involved in this kind of ganking and lugging weapons that far across the galaxy is surprising. It's really interesting in a way.. what you've done there is thought to yourself what can I do in this game that will cause the most annoyance to another human being... hmm... well that's a lot of effort, but think of the feeling I'll get when I've accomplished it and that other person is really really angry. Dude, seriously go and see someone, you'll be killing small animals next.. and think where it could escalate..

 

[Jockey79]

Mostly for the reasons ziggy explained in literally the post you quoted? FD doesn't make rules for no reason - So why is combat logging against the rules?

Because combat logging is using out of game methods for an in game advantage.
Random PvP in the Mobius Group is just playing the game via in game methods, no external actions are required to be a .

2 very different things.

Come on Jockey, really?

See above, and as you just said - FD do not need any reason to set a rule.
But in this case, they are chalk and cheese situations and FD treat them as such.
As they should.

There is nothing to discuss on that point. If you don't like the fact that being a is fine, but cheating isn't... then perhaps the problem isn't with FD and their rules.

Just like in real life, the police can arrest someone for breaking the law and courts punish them - but they cannot arrest/ punish someone for being a .
If they could, J.Beiber and R.Black would get locked up forever, what they did to music has to be a crime somewhere.

 

[Zieman]

Hard to understand the motivation for attacking people at sag A.. Given that it's a horrible amount of effort getting there the only possible motivation for going there to attack people would be to really ruin someone's day. It suggests you're a bit of a bully who takes pleasure from upsetting others (you should probably go see someone).. albeit a really dedicated one since the effort involved in this kind of ganking and lugging weapons that far across the galaxy is surprising.

Well, obviously they think they're being the bigges badasses of the world. While in reality, theyre just baddest bigasses of the world.

And don't think for a second that the 'baddest' here means something positive, 'admirable' or 'cool'.

 

[Jockey79]

It's fine if a computer controlled person kills people because it's part of the game but somehow a human controlled person does it and it's the worst thing ever. .

Because a person attacked you because you're another person.

NPCs attack everyone. They don't discriminate.
Go sit in a RES and watch them, they constantly attack each other and don't stop what they are doing because "a human turned up".

Yet humans will stop what they are doing to prioritise another human as a target. Or they will ignore perfectly good NPC targets in order to shoot a human despite them being a poor choice of target.

 

[Arjin]

Players avoid open for only 2 reasons,

1. To avoid the dbags that ruin their fun, mostly griefers, as for legit PvP encounters say a pirate playing the role of a pirate and trying to pirate you, can be fun.

2. Some folks absolutely abhor PvP of any type they prefer to not be somebodys content period end of story.

Let's face it most teeners suck to play with, some insecure older folks who have to grief in order to get any enjoyment suck to play with, the others are just plain old ahole types suck to play with, so why have your gametime ruined if you dont have to?

It's not anymore complicated than this. NPC's aren't as dangerous as a real player is, and interdictions really aren't that bad during the last two nights of playing (my own PG) I have made 77 jumps while trading and was interdicted one time, no danger, easy mode...was it fun? sure it was I was making moola easy mode, listening to some tunes, playing the role of a space trucker in my head. I had the galaxy to myself. Tonight I may go hunting, at the very least we have choices..

 

[KaizoMK]

Because combat logging is using out of game methods for an in game advantage.
Random PvP in the Mobius Group is just playing the game via in game methods, no external actions are required to be a .

2 very different things.

So are third party trade data sites. Why not ban all the traders in the game?

Also your analogy sucks, because douches in the game ARE killing people.

 

[Sandmann]

That's why I said I don't trade and asked the question. So 12 jumps takes a week?

Don't forget that each "leg" of your route might be a dozen or more jumps. It's exceedingly rare to find two very profitable systems next door to each other. Plus many traders (myself included) don't just truck back and forth. Despite the "space truck simulator" epithet that some PvPers like to use, even we know it's grindy and boring to just go back and forth so we break it up with a little exploring, and little salvage/smuggling, maybe some npc bounty hunting or missions if we're flying a multirole ship. Some even indulge in a bit of mining occasionally, keeping a mining ship and a trading.ship, or refitting on the fly. Some even *gasp* get into a combat ship and look for some PvP.

Most traders don't just fly a box back and forth all night, you should get that mental image out of your head now, coz it's a fallacy that's been created to make trading appear like less than valid/worthwhile gameplay. The upshot is that profit that could possibly be made in 1 to 2 nights of gameplay if you did nothing but crunch the numbers will often take a lot longer because of the realities of the grind.

 

[Lowievisser]

They reason that an NPC is reacting to code but a player is reacting to emotion.

Somehow, this makes the end result of being blown up wildly different.

yeah , since 2014 im trying to understand. Isnt the npc coded with emotion , or that doesnt make sense?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is nothing to discuss on that point. If you don't like the fact that being a is fine, but cheating isn't... then perhaps the problem isn't with FD and their rules.

You're right. If you are going to make up my argument instead of addressing my actual argument, we indeed have nothing to discuss.

Since I repeated my argument several times, I have to conclude this is intentional.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Guys - it's friday night.

Knock it off please.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Gentlemen, please - you cannot fight in here. This is the War Room

 

[Lowievisser]

Hard to understand the motivation for attacking people at sag A.. Given that it's a horrible amount of effort getting there the only possible motivation for going there to attack people would be to really ruin someone's day. It suggests you're a bit of a bully who takes pleasure from upsetting others (you should probably go see someone).. albeit a really dedicated one since the effort involved in this kind of ganking and lugging weapons that far across the galaxy is surprising.

i deserve credits for making it that far with way less jump range as the shieldless asp. + he wouldnt drop cargo and on top that was flying a freaking anaconda , i can only dream about that much credits for a exploring ship lol still saving for a decent fas. if you get that upset with a video game i suggest the same , go see somone.

I also didnt break any rules

 

[Don Alvarez]

Guys - it's friday night.

Knock it off please.

Friday Night's Alright for Fighting.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

While we can sit here all day sharing our opinions, I think we can all agree Frontier missed a trick not including a dedicated PVE mode. It's very obvious the majority (including myself) would play in this mode. I don't know if it would be possible to implement this, or even if they want to, but I certainly like the idea. Theres my two cents Frontier.

 

[Sandmann]

OK but if you're trading that's all you ever do.

Who on earth told you that? You need to stop listening to propaganda my friend.

If the GRINDING is so bad, why are you even bothering to play the game that's so boring to you, the thought of spending another 2-3 hours is horrific? Surely 2-3 hours when you've done the same thing for hundreds of hours is nothing. I mean, you are playing the game to enjoy it aren't you or what's the point?

The grind's not "bad". It's not the most exciting gameplay out there but it pays the bills and gets us where we want to be... better equipped to.do the other stuff we want to do. And if you DO find a really good run it can be fun to see how much you can milk it before it dries up (as they do).

Either way, traders don't just trade. In fact I (and probably most traders) do a bit of pretty much everything in the game. Trading just funds it. I enjoy trading, but I also.enjoy other stuff... and it's exceedingly annoying to have up to a week's worth of advancement thrown away for.some seal clubber's 30 seconds of giggles. Is that your problem? No of course not, but perhaps understanding us will help you understand why we (and Sandro) would like more plausible and consistent consequences and why there's been such a mass.migration to solo/group. We accept there's risk but if there's too much it stops being fun for.us and we'll leave.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Because combat logging is using out of game methods for an in game advantage.

What in-game advantage?

Saving credits?

These days credits grow on trees so that's no advantage.

Listening to PvP'ers cry?

Well yes, granted, that's pretty darn funny and hilarious at times, certainly an advantage in the broadest of subjective sense but then again, I'm sure that is not what Frontier had in mind when they coined the term 'advantage'.

So what's left? What advantage is there to be had?

 

[Jockey79]

So are third party trade data sites. Why not ban all the traders in the game?

Also your analogy sucks, because douches in the game ARE killing people.

Good question, why doesn't FD punish those who use external websites for trade..... perhaps because they cannot prove you've used one.
They can however prove someone combat logs, so they can punish what they can prove.

And in game murder is part of the game, with in game punishments - so random killing of players in open or in groups is fine and does not require FD to step in.
Now external murder for in game benefits is just not on and FD should step in and ban someone for that

 

[Sapient6]

Well the point i'm trying to get to is that people need to view the AI and players as the same. AI will kill you just as often as a player will try if not more. How many people...

A) actually see any other players let alone get to chat to them let alone get attacked by them?

B) Fly in areas where a lot of other players fly and increase the risk of getting attacked by one.

And if they do get attacked, well space is a dangerous place which has been the theme of Elite since 1984 so why is anyone complaining about it? It's fine if a computer controlled person kills people because it's part of the game but somehow a human controlled person does it and it's the worst thing ever. That's no a reasonable position to hold and it's really about people that can't stand to be beaten, imo.

Simply put: I don't want to play a game where a human controlled person attacking me is part of the game. I don't find it entertaining. Doesn't make me angry, either, I'm just 100% not interested.

You can say I'm being unreasonable, but I contend that you are the one lacking reason, sir.

 

[Sandmann]

Actually, I think explorers potentially lose more, though they are not vulnerable for that long. My last trip, I was carrying 46M in data and three weeks worth of time when I jumped back into the bubble. Plus I had no weapons, weak shields and crappy thrusters. I got interdicted within two seconds of arriving though escaped with just a couple of shield rings missing. However, on balance, given its a constant threat for traders, maybe they do have it worse.

Agreed. Their cargo is more valuable but thier risk exposure is more limited.

 

[Jockey79]

What in-game advantage?

Saving credits?

These days credits grow on trees so that's no advantage.

Listening to PvP'ers cry?

Well yes, granted, that's pretty darn funny and hilarious at times, certainly an advantage in the broadest of subjective sense but then again, I'm sure that is not what Frontier had in mind when they coined the term 'advantage'.

So what's left? What advantage is there to be had?

As has been stated, it is not just credits someone will lose if they fall victim to a PvP'er. They also lose time / effort - something they cannot get back.
However when combat logging, you rob the PvP'er of the time / effort they put in to find a target to kill and didn't have to put any time / effort or ship config to "win" the situation.

So the "victim" gains the advantage of being able to fly a none combat ship and "win" every combat encounter without even having to fit a single gun.