A Game At Odds with Itself and Why

No secret: Elite is a game at odd with itself. Or rather, the game as it exists, is at odds with the one Mr. Braben clearly wants to make.

Consider Mr. Braben's recent PCGamer interview. He talked about how there are tons of things to do in Elite. There aren't, of course; Mr. Braben commonly mistakes "doing the same thing lots of times" with "having lots to do" and it's a very revealing and very problematic paradigm. As long as Mr Braben believes Elite has lots to do, it never will, since he will not believe that adding more to do is needed. In terms of the robust game with ample player activities Mr. Braben imagines he has already created, the bare bones, three-pronged combat/trade/beep-scanning (I refuse to call that "Exploration" any longer) is a game at odds with what it's creator wishes it to become.

Likewise, Mr. Braben indicates that players do not travel enough. In fact he nearly goes so far as to blame players for not finding all of the things that (he mostly imagines) his game holds for them. The problem: Mr. Braben's game, as it actually exists, entices players not to explore the bubble but to stay put and make friends with one or two local factions. This rep gain is, after all, the only way to receive better missions and larger profits. Mr. Braben wants us to explore his Galaxy, but his game punishes us for doing so.

Mr. Braben talks about the lonely, lone-pilot-against-the-galaxy feeling he wants Elite to embody. Then he created an online, multiplayer game with frequent Community Goals. He imagines an online community that does not exist, full of loners who will never want to group up or band together, content to play together but in isolation. Give players an open, living universe and they will want the means to group up and exert influence. This is simple human nature.

Elite's biggest problem is that the creator behind the game believes himself to be making - and indeed, to mostly already have made - the ultimate Han Solo simulator. A lone pilot and their ship, free to roam about a living Galaxy full of enjoyable, varied and profitable yet risky tasks to undertake. In fact this neither describes Elite as it exists nor even it's underlying design philosophy, if the current game is any indication. For the game Braben and company are actually making is a repetitive space grind with three lackluster activities, all of them equally pointless after a short time, that actively encourages people NOT to explore their (not so living or dynamic) universe, but to pick a spot and stay there, all the while wishing the always online, multiplayer REQUIREMENT actually served some functional purpose beyond frustrating Europe on Sunday evenings.

Elite is a game at odds with what it wants to be. Elite's foundation is a bedrock frought with cracks and fractures, from bugs to game play decisions that actively contradict it's creator's vision. The need to keep people grinding rep contradicts the wish to have them explore. The need for MP balance contradicts the desire for unique customization and play style changes to ships. The fear that some may shortcut the grind contradicts the desire of players to trade and run lasting economies, which ability to group up and attempt itself contradicts the loner in a harsh Galaxy vision underlining Elite to begin with.

Mr. Braben needs to remove the Rose tinted glasses of his imagination and tune into his game as it exists. People are losing interest, and worse, beginning to question whether this is even the game they were promised, or ever will be. Some of the reasons for this doubt are listed above, in case Frontier are listening at all.
 
Last edited:
...Mr. Braben...

...Mr. Braben's ... Mr. Braben ... Mr Braben ... Mr. Braben...

...Mr. Braben ... Mr. Braben's ... Mr. Braben...

...Mr. Braben...

...Mr. Braben...

For some reason that Cinderella song the mice sing in the classic animated Disney movie comes to mind, only with "Mr. Braben" replacing "Cinderelly." (Maybe now Mr. Braben can finally go to the ball.) :D

[video=youtube;mof0dEKT_9Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mof0dEKT_9Q[/video]

Sorry, but I can't take a post serious that claims to speak for others and attempts to define what the game is (or isn't) for them. If you want to make a constructive suggestion about what you'd like to see, feel free. Other than that, people are wasting my time with these threads, and I imagine the time of others and themselves as well, but I'll leave that for them to sort out.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
omg - the sky is falling...

or

omg - I want the game to be something its not meant to be.

Which one is it?

Dramatic. But pointless.

What I did over a period of days was to consider Mr. Braben's words and the vision the revealed, at some length. And to think about Elite in comparison to that vision. And then to realize that the two are grossly at odds with one another for numerous reasons.

So I thought I might talk civily about some of those reasons, in case the extra pair of eyes, as it were, proved helpful to Frontier in seeing their game as some of us see it.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Neither.

It's a reality check, a needed one at that.

Thanks for this. We're I not on mobile I would Rep this.
 
No secret: Elite is a game at odd with itself. Or rather, the game as it exists, is at odds with the one Mr. Braben clearly wants to make.

Consider Mr. Braben's recent PCGamer interview. He talked about how there are tons of things to do in Elite. There aren't, of course; Mr. Braben commonly mistakes "doing the same thing lots of times" with "having lots to do" and it's a very revealing and very problematic paradigm. As long as Mr Braben believes Elite has lots to do, it never will, since he will not believe that adding more to do is needed. In terms of the robust game with ample player activities Mr. Braben imagines he has already created, the bare bones, three-pronged combat/trade/beep-scanning (I refuse to call that "Exploration" any longer) is a game at odds with what it's creator wishes it to become.


.

Hopw many things do you think you can do - we can then see if we can add to your list and show you how much you are missing
 
Hopw many things do you think you can do - we can then see if we can add to your list and show you how much you are missing

I think I can partake of combat. Either in RES or at Beacons. Which I like, in small doses.

I don't think that I, personally, can Trade. I acknowledge it as an available activity others enjoy. I neither judge nor begrudge them that. I simply do not find it entertaining or enjoyable.

Exploration fascinated me. Alas, I find it...under developed...in Elite. Give me ancient Alien ruins, wrecked ships, valuable, rare samples. Let me scan planets from space to find points of interest and decide whether I want to land and explore further. Add some flesh to bones of Beep-scanning and I will call it Exploration again. And enjoy it. But not until then.

I believe I can mine. And also that I can play Click and Wait mobile games. Of the two, I find the latter more enjoyable despite its larger ranking somewhere between drying paint and growing grass spectatorship.

I believe I can run occasional deliveries an do. And those offer a nice break from combat now and then.

I believe I can smuggle. Or will be able to do, once the magical, psychic, insta-spawn-and-interdict AI ships are fixed. But not again until then.

And I believe that is basically everything aside from pointlessly driving about in an SRV shooting rocks to craft pointless ammunition. The which I would actually rank UNDER grass growing spectator on my list of fleeting interests.
 
So actually what there is a lot of content and you don't enjoy doing some of it

You need to differentiate by the way between Content being available and content you don't enjoy - just because you don't enjoy loads of things doesn't mean there isn't loads of thing to do

Even in your list there is lot of things to do

You can pirate
You can scavenge
You can do rares trading
you can bounty hunt
you can join the UA barnacles
You can power play

And that's without trying

Basically you cant call a game lacking in content and then list loads of content and say you don't actually like it that's two different things
 
I've had similar thoughts about Braben's confidence. In retrospect, it's kind of funny in a sad way how things turned out. At least FD did cut down on the price, bringing it closer to the reality of the actual value.
 
You cant use 'not a secret' and 'clearly' to convert your opinion into fact, never mind basing the entire rant on those self-proclaimed facts to 'show' DB doesnt know what he is doing yet you do. When I read the dev updates I get the impression they have a very good idea of what they are doing. A shame you dont feel the same, but that is your opinion. Clearly no secret. :)
 
I think I can partake of combat. Either in RES or at Beacons. Which I like, in small doses.

I don't think that I, personally, can Trade. I acknowledge it as an available activity others enjoy. I neither judge nor begrudge them that. I simply do not find it entertaining or enjoyable.

Exploration fascinated me. Alas, I find it...under developed...in Elite. Give me ancient Alien ruins, wrecked ships, valuable, rare samples. Let me scan planets from space to find points of interest and decide whether I want to land and explore further. Add some flesh to bones of Beep-scanning and I will call it Exploration again. And enjoy it. But not until then.

I believe I can mine. And also that I can play Click and Wait mobile games. Of the two, I find the latter more enjoyable despite its larger ranking somewhere between drying paint and growing grass spectatorship.

I believe I can run occasional deliveries an do. And those offer a nice break from combat now and then.

I believe I can smuggle. Or will be able to do, once the magical, psychic, insta-spawn-and-interdict AI ships are fixed. But not again until then.

And I believe that is basically everything aside from pointlessly driving about in an SRV shooting rocks to craft pointless ammunition. The which I would actually rank UNDER grass growing spectator on my list of fleeting interests.

CQC.. you missed out CQC :)
 
Consider Mr. Braben's recent PCGamer interview. He talked about how there are tons of things to do in Elite. There aren't, of course; Mr. Braben commonly mistakes "doing the same thing lots of times" with "having lots to do" and it's a very revealing and very problematic paradigm. As long as Mr Braben believes Elite has lots to do, it never will, since he will not believe that adding more to do is needed.
This is what worried me the most about his interview too. The firm belief that there, as the game stands, is a lot to do, means that the current repetitive mechanics are in fact not place holders, but the final product. This concerns me greatly... however, I have purchased Horizons and will give Frontier the benefit of the doubt for the time being :)

I must also say that the belief that there is anything driving us to move around within the bubble is also puzzling. If you put me in a space station anywhere in the bubble I would have no way AT ALL to know where I was. Not a clue, until I checked the Galaxy Map. There are no regional differences, no cultural differences, nothing, just randomly varying space station designs. Absolutely bare bones...
 
Last edited:
And here I'm enjoying this game immensely that I think this is the ULTIMATE Han Solo Simulator ever. Perhaps OP's expectation of an ideal space game is just too big for the likes of Elite as it is now. I wish I knew the best answer to OP why I like this game a lot, enough to make him reconsider his thoughts.
 
And here I'm enjoying this game immensely that I think this is the ULTIMATE Han Solo Simulator ever. Perhaps OP's expectation of an ideal space game is just too big for the likes of Elite as it is now. I wish I knew the best answer to OP why I like this game a lot, enough to make him reconsider his thoughts.

No, you clearly dont get it. Obviously you are wrong. Its no secret at all you are mistaken. I dont like it.

Sorry, ran out of arguments.
 
Last edited:
No game capable of being developed by human beings, or of running on hardware developed by human beings, will ever match the imagined games of some customers. Or compensate for the shortcomings of customers who lack imagination.
 
So actually what there is a lot of content and you don't enjoy doing some of it

You need to differentiate by the way between Content being available and content you don't enjoy - just because you don't enjoy loads of things doesn't mean there isn't loads of thing to do

Even in your list there is lot of things to do

You can pirate
You can scavenge
You can do rares trading
you can bounty hunt
you can join the UA barnacles
You can power play

And that's without trying

Basically you cant call a game lacking in content and then list loads of content and say you don't actually like it that's two different things
Barnacles are once done.

Pirating - which is barely worthwhile if at all - and even more so, Bounty Hunting, are both Combat. As is CQC. I did list Combat.

Power Play - aside from being boring and woefully underdeveloped - is either Delivering Goods, or Combat. Both listed.

Do you get it yet? The problem, I mean? Attaching a different progress to the same activity does not make it something different to do. A difference exists between doing something different, and doing the same thing for different reasons. This is something gaming as an industry struggles to understand but badly needs to realize.

Edit: I also listed scavenging, as both pointless and boring, in my opinion. And frequently immersion wrecking to boot.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom