Proposal Discussion New opportunity to buy space station and planet name ?

[Pyros]

I see what you mean but we're not buying the game, DDF access or anything else. That's why I thought 200 quid was the amount to pay for naming a station.

There was no separate purchase for any of the KS rewards*, as they are cumulative.

The difference between the Naming a station and the previous pledge level - DDF membership - is indeed £200 (300 => 500), but that difference does not reflect the actual effort required or the risk factor.

Naming a (frontier) system was £3,000, a central one £5k

Interestingly there is no pledge level for naming a fringe/uninhibited system.


*some discerning individuals might have been able to circumvent this a little bit.

 

[D3CK4RD]

My bad, missed the '£3000' pledge when I read it on my phone.

You could get it at the £5000 pledge too, just you got dinner thrown in, nice !

 

[Perseus]

There was no separate purchase for any of the KS rewards*, as they are cumulative.

The difference between the Naming a station and the previous pledge level - DDF membership - is indeed £200 (300 => 500), but that difference does not reflect the actual effort required or the risk factor.

I know this but KS was to get the game underway and people contributed according to their means and/or motivation. I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'actual effort' although I do know what you mean by risk factor. This risk taking seems to have been rewarded with exclusive content or game contribution (especially DDF membership).
Naming game infrastructure seems to be an excellent opportunity for FD to make more cash. Paying £200 doesn't undermine the £500 amount a KS pledger contributed because of DDF participation and docking discounts.

 

[Bob_H]

I know this but KS was to get the game underway and people contributed according to their means and/or motivation. I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'actual effort' although I do know what you mean by risk factor. This risk taking seems to have been rewarded with exclusive content or game contribution (especially DDF membership).
Naming game infrastructure seems to be an excellent opportunity for FD to make more cash. Paying £200 doesn't undermine the £500 amount a KS pledger contributed because of DDF participation and docking discounts.

You misunderstand the Kickstarter system. We pledged as much money as we could or wanted to afford (in my case £100). For that pledge we got certain rewards and benefits, both in and and outside the game. I didn't buy Beta 1 access plus all the other tiers individually. I pledged £100 to make sure Elite got made and in return FD are allowing me to take part in Beta 1 - or premium beta as it's now being called - plus all the other perks. I didn't purchase anything, I was given stuff as a thank you for giving FD my money. With FD giving that reward at that level they had set the value of the right to be part of the Beta 1 testing as £100. The same goes for Beta 2 (standard beta), the game and the expansion pass.

It's the same for the station naming rights. Those people who pledged £500 gave £500 to FD, no strings attached. In return FD offered them the chance to name a station plus all the other stuff. So, now FD have effectively set the value of the right to name a station at £500 because of the Kickstarter reward for the pledge of £500. Whether or not FD decide to sell those remaining 137 station naming rights is neither here nor there but the value attached to that right was set in the Kickstarter campaign as something FD was willing to give in exchange for those persons freely giving FD £500. Not £10 or £15 or £20 or £200. 500 big boys.

 

[Bob_H]

It should now be fairly obvious why Mr. Brookes never wanted to allow pre-order options for access to Alpha and the two Beta test phases. Once you go down that route it's very difficult to stop the journey down it continuing.

 

[Perseus]

You misunderstand the Kickstarter system. We pledged as much money as we could or wanted to afford (in my case £100). For that pledge we got certain rewards and benefits, both in and and outside the game. I didn't buy Beta 1 access plus all the other tiers individually. I pledged £100 to make sure Elite got made and in return FD are allowing me to take part in Beta 1 - or premium beta as it's now being called - plus all the other perks. I didn't purchase anything, I was given stuff as a thank you for giving FD my money. With FD giving that reward at that level they had set the value of the right to be part of the Beta 1 testing as £100. The same goes for Beta 2 (standard beta), the game and the expansion pass.

It's the same for the station naming rights. Those people who pledged £500 gave £500 to FD, no strings attached. In return FD offered them the chance to name a station plus all the other stuff. So, now FD have effectively set the value of the right to name a station at £500 because of the Kickstarter reward for the pledge of £500. Whether or not FD decide to sell those remaining 137 station naming rights is neither here nor there but the value attached to that right was set in the Kickstarter campaign as something FD was willing to give in exchange for those persons freely giving FD £500. Not £10 or £15 or £20 or £200. 500 big boys.

I see your point but I still disagree. I can see a scale of reward based on pledged money that was cumulative. This gives a value to different tiers based on the rewards. The gap between DDF membership and station naming was £200. You have said the £500 pledge was "no strings attached" so offering station naming for £200 seems to be reasonable and fair - at least to me.
Regardless of our interpretations or opinions, the value of anything FD do/make should be determined by them. I'm sure there are lots of people on both sides of this argument and we'll see what FD do about it - if anything.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I pledged about £170 to both help the game be made and to get two copies with lifetime upgrades.

To get a chance to name a limited edition station (and incidentally a planet, as that was the lowest reward tier left with station naming) I had to add approx. £1400.
Yes, that did come with other benefits such as DDF and Alpha access, but that was still the amount that I had to chip-in to get the naming reward I was after.

If Frontier were now to offer that same reward in unlimited numbers for a couple of hundred pounds a time, I'd feel both stupid and a little bit annoyed to say the least.

Don't get me wrong, if that's the way it goes I wouldn't rant and rave about it or bare a grudge against Frontier. We make our own mistakes and I'd just have to live and learn, and make sure I didn't get fooled so easily again.

On the other hand (and a lighter note), if they were to offer something new and different such as naming cities, starports, in-station shops or whatever I'd be a perfectly happy camper

 

[Darth Sidious]

Buy all named back with Frontier shares and resell everything as Frontier sees fit.
Its very fashionable behaviour these days

 

[Memnoch]

I remember, and can see, the £3000 'name a frontier' system but I don't remember one for naming a central system, only the founders system.

 

[Juniper]

I remember, and can see, the £3000 'name a frontier' system but I don't remember one for naming a central system, only the founders system.

That's the £5000 one which includes dinner with David Braben et al. (5, sold out). There was an additional £5000 put up to name the founder's system.

 

[Juniper]

I pledged about £170 to both help the game be made and to get two copies with lifetime upgrades.

To get a chance to name a limited edition station (and incidentally a planet, as that was the lowest reward tier left with station naming) I had to add approx. £1400.

Erm... how? Name a planet was £750, which included naming a station as well. Or are you saying they were all sold out and you couldn't do it so had to go to the next level up?

Don't get me wrong, if that's the way it goes I wouldn't rant and rave about it or bare a grudge against Frontier. We make our own mistakes and I'd just have to live and learn, and make sure I didn't get fooled so easily again.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What you pledged was great, because it helped FD get to the position they are in now - namely ramping up E: D for release. But it's not a shop - the "rewards" are simply a thank-you and incentive on Frontier's part to give you something back for what you gave to them. I haven't read the KS T&Cs recently, but I'm pretty sure that they're not even under any legal obligation to fulfil these rewards (of course it would be very bad form & PR for them not to, so no need to worry).

It's more like a charitable donation than a seller/buyer arrangement.

On the other hand (and a lighter note), if they were to offer something new and different such as naming cities, starports, in-station shops or whatever I'd be a perfectly happy camper

Agree 100%. It's a great idea.

 

[natte hond]

Naming stuff after Brand names is err, questionable ie Coca Cola, its in the backers app FAQ.

[Quote:]Potential IP violations - while OK for commander names we can't accept names for game characters to which we don't own the rights; so no "Han Solo" or "Coca-Cola" here.

Space stations & planet names

Advertising - overt advertising would clash with the game fiction, so be careful if you want to use your company or brand e.g. "Frontier World" would be fine but "Frontier.co.uk" would not.endQuote:

If your are the owner of coca cola you could do so.
unless your a schizophrenic.
its just that the tread about ingame advertising made me think about this.
and how horrible it could potentially be.

 

[Kettle]

If you want to name your planet or space station then good luck to you because this is your game, but for me is a big no. We did not buy the game for other spoilt players to name themselves in a game we had bought. And if there is then Frontier better implement an option to switch off third parties players names on theirs planetary or space station.

Thank you very much and I'm sure there are many out there who do not want to see other names in theirs games apart from other Cmdr names and at the end of the day it all about moneys.

 

[FrogsFriend]

If you want to name your planet or space station then good luck to you because this is your game, but for me is a big no. We did not buy the game for other spoilt players to name themselves in a game we had bought. And if there is then Frontier better implement an option to switch off third parties players names on theirs planetary or space station.

Thank you very much and I'm sure there are many out there who do not want to see other names in theirs games apart from other Cmdr names and at the end of the day it all about moneys.

Well, from the kickstarter rewards there are 25 named systems, 141 named planets, 254 named stations (if I added them up right). I don't believe there'll be any option to 'turn-them-off' and have some players seeing different names to everyone else.
But, it's a fairly tiny number compared to what has been given as approx. 70,000 inhabited (in some way) systems in the region where the game starts.

 

[Pyros]

If you want to name your planet or space station then good luck to you because this is your game, but for me is a big no. We did not buy the game for other spoilt players to name themselves in a game we had bought. And if there is then Frontier better implement an option to switch off third parties players names on theirs planetary or space station.

Thank you very much and I'm sure there are many out there who do not want to see other names in theirs games apart from other Cmdr names and at the end of the day it all about moneys.

Not really feasible in an online game - even if technically possible, it would go against the spirit of the pledge reward.

Anyway, not only I doubt you'll find many obtrusively named assets as even if they are named after people (e.g. "Johnson space station") or, aligned with the advertising thread, "Coca-Cola port", that isn't any different from what happens on earth and what will probably happen when we finally leave this rock.

Have you ever felt in any way affected because America was named after a navigator, Victoria falls after queen Victoria, and many more (and better) examples across the globe?

What FD needs to ensure is that there are no duplicate (or not?) and distasteful names.

 

[Pyros]

I know this but KS was to get the game underway and people contributed according to their means and/or motivation. I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'actual effort' although I do know what you mean by risk factor. This risk taking seems to have been rewarded with exclusive content or game contribution (especially DDF membership).
Naming game infrastructure seems to be an excellent opportunity for FD to make more cash. Paying £200 doesn't undermine the £500 amount a KS pledger contributed because of DDF participation and docking discounts.

It comes down to economics: in general, the economic value of bundled items is always less than each of the items taken separately - ergo their price needs to be lower. Meaning that if the additional cash required for the naming rights is £200 and you are required to purchase everything below to get there, the price for that same right bought separately should be greater.

An easy way to explain this is that because you want the naming right, you have to pay for things you might not be interested, so in reality you are paying more. For example, imagine you'd have neither the time nor the inclination of participating on the DDF, and that pledge reward was irrelevant to you. But you really want to honor a closed one (or some other reason). In reality you would be paying at least £300 for the naming right of a station (the difference to the DDF + difference to naming a station).

While the economic value of each additional pledge reward can be argued, they are not zero. Therefore, in the same circumstances that existed during the KS, the value of naming a station as a separate item would be something between the delta (£200) and the full bundle price (£500).

There is also the financial devaluation but that is a more shared concept.

Now, I understand that KS supporters that paid for those expensive pledges would be "not amused" if their pledges were now available at a much lower price. So while circumstances change, I think it would be wiser if FD does not drop prices significantly anytime soon. Godus has cause enough commotion as it is.

 

[Slopey]

I didn't name a planet or station, and stopped at DDF level (although I must admit I almost jontied it - not to altruistically give FD more cash to write E: D, but for the *exclusivity* of the offered goodies), however, I don't think FD should open it back up.

What's the point of an exclusive, expensive, pledge tier, if that then becomes non-exclusive?

Although some people say that the KS pledges were nothing more than charitable donations, I don't quite see it that way. Yes, it was a pledge but it has a value, and that value would be compromised if the same thing was offered at a lower value, or that an exclusive item is suddenly no longer exclusive.

Otherwise, you might as well have pledges ranging from £30 to £5000 but which don't get you anything other than the £30 pledge regardless of value.

FD have already been accused of a cash grab with Alpha upgrading, imho this would just pour fuel on the fire, while also annoying those who ponied up for the high KS levels for the exclusivity of the benefits they offered.

I also think there's abit too much of the special-snowflake entitlement creeping in from some forumites. If you missed the KS campaign, you missed it. Tough luck. You shouldn't magically be granted the ability to get things which were only offered back then. There are already constant queries about if late-alpha "purchasers" will get DDF access, if premium beta backers will get access to the Alpha forums, and all sorts. If you didn't pledge at the time, you shouldn't get it imho - if your financial circumstances have changed meantime, then good for you - doesn't change the fact that you didn't do it at the time, and just because you want it, doesn't mean you should be able to get it.

After all - you can't phone up a BitCoin exchange and say that you *would* have purchased 100,000 bitcoins 2 years ago, but didn't so can you buy them now at the same price they were then.... etc..

Meantime, FD don't really need the cash to get E: D out of the door at this point. They have the KS funding, and two rounds of equity investment iirc, so another £50k is not really here or there in the big scheme of things, so it's not as if it's going pear shaped and this would save the game from never appearing.

 

[-o-]

Star Citizen did exactly the same and caught an absolute s storm from the original backers about very similar issues.

There were many advantages to be had if you invested at the kickstarter level.

Unfortunately, there would be many Elite fans who simply were not aware of the kickstarter at the time ... indeed, they probably had no idea what crowdfunding sites like kickstarter did - after all, its not the type of funding model FD used before. This is emphasised further in that many Elite fans are older and are generally not synched with modern fads like kickstarter.

You can't really blame such fans for not knowing about the ED kickstarter. I'm sure they would have participated had they known about it.

The question is, is there any exclusivity period or reason for the kickstarter rewards. Is there anything (legally) which states that the same or similar rewards offered in the kickstarter cannot be made available at a later date outside the kickstarter .. like in FD's shop.

It will help FD with funding and help new users.

SC backer base maybe perhaps slighly different to ED base. Perhaps there be more understanding here. The Alpha users did not seem to complain when 'their' product was made available to Beta.

 

[rlr149]

and help new users.

how exactly?

 

[D3CK4RD]

The Alpha users did not seem to complain when 'their' product was made available to Beta.

Why would they mind.
If you give Alpha backers a new toy, let them play with it a while till they've explored it thoroughly.
Then you give them a shiny new toy, which is a lot more engrossing, they won't even notice that someone else has access to their old toy, and besides they can still play with it if they want to.

The arguments for selling new naming rights at cheaper prices is deeply flawed.

If FD wanted to sell a lot of planets and stations for a small amount, well they had that option.
What they actually did was sell a few (making them exclusive) for a lot of money (a premium).
To change that policy now that funding has been reached and the game is being made shouldn't change a thing, a precedent has been set.