Special request for explorers near the bubble - can anyone help me with a couple of quick scans?

Jackie Silver · Feb 29, 2016

Special request for explorers near the bubble - can anyone help me with a couple of quick scans? (done)

Hi everyone...

I have some old data referring to a couple of systems near the Bubble, two stars which have (apparently) anomalously low ages for the type of star that they are. I didn't scan them myself so can't check them out, and I'm 30 Kylies away.

Would anyone be able to visit them for me and provide me with the details of each primary star, please? I'm looking for mass, radius, temperature, age and the star class as given on the galaxy map.

The stars in question are:

SYNUEFAI ZJ-K B53-1

and

SYNUEFE TJ-Z B58-0

Much obliged for any help! It is of course for science.

Jackie

(edited to add)

Specifically: see those two red dots inside the lower left quadrant here which is otherwise populated only with T-Tauris? That's these two systems.

Ziljan · Feb 29, 2016

I am back in the bubble for a couple days, so I will take a look at these two systems tonight. Just want to collect the exploration CG and then do a quick refit the Bessel Meridian for speed before I head back out.

If there's anything else you need while I'm around here just give a shout

Btw, the gold paintjob alone was worth the 20LKY dash back to the bubble. But the 24M CG bonus clinched it, lol.

Jackie Silver · Feb 29, 2016

Thanks Ziljan - I don't think I need any others but I'm in the process of checking and cleaning up the data, if anything else turns up I will update here.

I've got my eye on that Turbulence paintjob for the Type 6, it looks oddly familiar...

Jackie Silver · Feb 29, 2016

Not sure how close it is, but if you have the chance to swing by COL 132 SECTOR BQ-O D6-48 and get the details on the primary there also that would be good.

Ziljan · Mar 1, 2016

Pretty interesting, the first two are both high metallicity, Population I, M class red dwarfs. High opacity => Low temperature, high radius.

SYNUEFAI ZJ-K B53-1 is an M5 VA star:

Synuefe TJ-Z b58-0 is an M7 VA star:

I'll see if I can grab the 3rd star if it's not too far. Maybe not tonight though

Ziljan · Mar 1, 2016

Just looking at the logarithmic horizontal scale for age, it looks like they're plotted too far to the left (to young) according to the system map data. They should be grouped in together with the other extreme population I main sequence stars.

Jackie Silver · Mar 1, 2016

Brilliant, thanks, those revised ages fit with what I think they should be. So far as I can see there's a hard line at age 240 Myr which separates protostars and VZ stars from the rest.

(Strictly a WIP diagram - for starters evolved B stars aren't plotted and they fill a good part of the gap under the AFG supergiants, also silly naming. But the way the line (vanpelt) which fairly neatly marks the cutoff also intersects with the top of the OZ stars (at age 1 on the extreme left) is cool. No idea what's going on with the Herbigs, they're always age 2 if they're primaries so far as I can see, even when that makes no sense at all.)

The remnants with nebula around them seem to be grouped between 240 Myr and 300 Myr quite neatly.

Ziljan · Mar 1, 2016

Excellent work Jackie

. Tbh, I would have expected the dividing line to be horizontal, since there is a mass above which stars collapse straight from the nebula to main sequence and skip the Herbig AeBe phase. So I am scratching my head as to what VZ could mean in this case. Also HaAeBe stars range from 2-8, so the fact that masses extend up to 100 solar masses is troubling.

The boundaries are the areas where the stellar forge needs the most repairing. But maybe someone with the power to tweak these "grammar errors" in Universal Cartographics is reading these threads? We can only hope.

-and maybe they can tell us wth VZ means in ED.

Jackie Silver · Mar 1, 2016

Ziljan said:
Also HaAeBe stars range from 2-8, so the fact that masses extend up to 100 solar masses is troubling.

Yes - although I suppose that more massive stars do sort of go through a very brief contraction phase, we just don't see them while they're doing it...

I've just come across a candidate for the most massive and largest Herbig Ae/Be star - at over 119 solar masses.

Ziljan · Mar 1, 2016

Indeed

. To my knowledge, these higher mass pre-main sequence stars have not been yet observed, so the physics surrounding the formation is speculative. I guess Frontier gets a pass here with license to invent their own interpretation of physics

.

blmcquig · Mar 1, 2016

Jackie Silver said:
Yes - although I suppose that more massive stars do sort of go through a very brief contraction phase, we just don't see them while they're doing it...

I've just come across a candidate for the most massive and largest Herbig Ae/Be star - at over 119 solar masses.

http://i.imgur.com/N2pocWK.png

pardon my ignorance of the subject, but can I speculate a bit?
This very massive Herbig star, when it joins the main sequence, does this likely mean it will be an enormous type O star if it is already that large at a young age?

Jackie Silver · Mar 1, 2016

blmcquig said:
pardon my ignorance of the subject, but can I speculate a bit?
This very massive Herbig star, when it joins the main sequence, does this likely mean it will be an enormous type O star if it is already that large at a young age?

Yes - it's right at the upper end of the mass range. I'm not sure what evolutionary path it would follow (in or out of the game) but I think it would become a blue supergiant, then Wolf-Rayet and then end up as a black hole. He Ae/Be -> Bn IVA or Bn IIA or Bn IAO -> WC or WO or whatever -> BH that would be in game. It's hard to make out as they're all bundled together with ages given only as "<1 Million years" - I need to look harder at that stuff. There should perhaps be a proper red supergiant phase after the blue supergiant phase (or even a yellow supergiant, which are exceptionally rare), but I haven't yet seen any in-game - at least, there are some red supergiants, but not any of very high mass like this, whereas there are lots of blue supergiants that are this massive.

(edited to add - it's very odd that all the Herbig Ae/Be are listed as being 2 million years old, when stars of equivalent mass are clearly already in the WR and supergiant phases despite being only "<1 Million years"!)

Ziljan · Mar 1, 2016

Looking more closely at the tiny radius, I think I may have an explanation. Though it is extremely amazing if true.

The internal density in a star this small and this massive looks to be in the process of core collapse. So lurking just beneath the outer radius is very likely a Black Hole

. This would explain why the star is so dim and so cold on the outside, because there is no internal pressure and very little radiation coming from the direction of the core.

In fact this star may be currently collapsing straight into a black hole without going nova. Though that wouldn't explain why it is classed as a Herbig AeBe star? Maybe by default because of mass and low age? In any case, the lifetime of such a high mass star is measured in tens of millenniums, not millions of years. So the age must also include the jean's collapse time from the original nebula.

Here are some real life examples of such a case:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.05823v1.pdf

Jackie, your finds never cease to amaze me. This might be the rarest object in the entire galaxy: an imploding very high mass star. Unfortunately, I am out of rep at the moment, but rest assured as soon as it refreshes I am spamming the rep button.