So... apparently heat sinks don't work anymore for avoiding scans.

[Derath]

you shouldn't get scanned at 5km under any circumstance, so something weirds going on could be a lag/instancing issue but not entirely sure.

Silent running does work, its just more dangerous and vastly slower than the alternative It is however the only way to smuggle in certain vessels as they really aren't fast enough to speed dock.

 

[andrak]

Scanned at +5km four times tonight by local security while my heat signature was flatlined.

They've never worked for avoiding scans. Firing off chaff, heat sinks or whatever else is just a placebo effect that has never prevented NPCs scanning your ship. That doesn't stop people from constantly spouting nonsense that they do though.

The only guaranteed way to stop a scan is to outrun it.

 

[Brimstone]

Yeah ok.. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68069&page=2&p=1158586&viewfull=1#post1158586

Then according to what Sandro says, we shouldn't be getting scanned while 5km away from any NPC's.

I've been playing with Silent running in combat lately against NPC's, and I can confidently say that it does absolutely nothing against them. One fight I bailed, and got out over 6km while in silent running and they were still following me. It's like once they see you, they always see you.

 

[GilliganTX]

They've never worked for avoiding scans. Firing off chaff, heat sinks or whatever else is just a placebo effect that has never prevented NPCs scanning your ship. That doesn't stop people from constantly spouting nonsense that they do though.

The only guaranteed way to stop a scan is to outrun it.

That is wrong. SR and heat sinks DO work. They just don't work well, IMO, and I pretty much don't use them to avoid scans. Chaff does nothing. And that is not the only guaranteed way to stop a scan. Shooting the scanning ship works too.

Then according to what Sandro says, we shouldn't be getting scanned while 5km away from any NPC's.

I've been playing with Silent running in combat lately against NPC's, and I can confidently say that it does absolutely nothing against them. One fight I bailed, and got out over 6km while in silent running and they were still following me. It's like once they see you, they always see you.

You have to exceed 8km to break their lock, then you can come back in as an "unresolved" contact.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Chaff doesn't even stop or prevent them from scanning you. It would be nice if they played under the same rules as us.

 

[777Driver]

Then according to what Sandro says, we shouldn't be getting scanned while 5km away from any NPC's.

I've been playing with Silent running in combat lately against NPC's, and I can confidently say that it does absolutely nothing against them. One fight I bailed, and got out over 6km while in silent running and they were still following me. It's like once they see you, they always see you.

Which is exactly how it should work. If you bailed during a fight with me and started to run I could still follow you, silent or not. It's called the Mark 1 eyeball..

Pretty sure that is the issue many have, I successfully run silent because (A) I engage well out of range and (B) I don't treat it like a complete invisibility cloak, I still monitor police traffic. I would be surprised if the devs haven't added a random detection chance even when completely silent and out of range. There should always be a chance that a cop visually ID's you and moves closer for investigation.

You get people like andrak who fly into a station, get scanned, pop a heat sink or go silent, then complain the mechanic doesn't work.

@Andrek, the only guaranteed way to stop a scan is to shoot

 

[Brimstone]

Either way, I'm salty and wish I could cheat like an NPC. Even their turrets will still hit you if you're just at the edge of their range. NPCs be griefing hard, they need to be shadow banned

 

[racer1]

Then according to what Sandro says, we shouldn't be getting scanned while 5km away from any NPC's.

I've been playing with Silent running in combat lately against NPC's, and I can confidently say that it does absolutely nothing against them. One fight I bailed, and got out over 6km while in silent running and they were still following me. It's like once they see you, they always see you.

Like 777Driver says, I think the AI have the concept of seeing you with their "eyes" rather than just on the scanner.

 

[Nerwan]

Yeah ok.. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68069&page=2&p=1158586&viewfull=1#post1158586

I'm sure everything they say here is true.. In my experience with silent running against cmdrs, 500m is about right if you have A grade sensors etc. However, they make absolutely no mention of NPCs in this and I'm convinced now that NPCs are completely unaffected by SR in all respects. I've definitely passed cops considerably outside 500m and they've attempted to scan me etc.. (Although never 5km, that seems crazy). I think one thing that a lot of people don't realize is that if you approach the mail slot from a completely perpendicular angle and do a reasonable speed, perhaps boosting until about 3km and then slowing down as fast as possible, you will *never* get scanned. I think a lot of people attribute this to silent running being effective but in fact it works seemingly no matter how much heat you're producing.. On the other hand, if you approach the mail slot from the side etc, you'll pretty much always get scanned irrespective of whether you're using silent running and irrespective of whether the cops are 500, 1000 or even 1500 m away..

 

[Drelthar]

It works if you haven't yet been spotted. Which is Ok. But it should at least be able to break scan lock if you drop to low heat while being scanned, they should then have to get close enough to scan again.

Also, the scan, can just be the "Passive" scan made by facing someone while targeting them. Doesn't need to be warrant scanner to see wanted. Though it SHOULD need to be cargo scanner (which the NPC should require to be fitted) if they detect illegal goods.

Basically, the NPC should follow the same rules as us.

They most likely don't, because our rules have been tweaked lots since release, while the Ai likely hasn't stayed up to date.

This kind of oversight is not unlikely in a game developed like this one.

It is still annoying though.

It's also likely not a huge priority for the devs. Which I also understand.

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commanders!

Just to clear up any confusion: heat sinks *do not* affect your emissions signature. They simply dump heat build up from your ship to prevent your modules and hull from cooking.

Silent running is the best way to ensure that your signature is minimised as it actively reduces your emissions to a minimum.

Turning off lots of modules will reduce your signature - doing it enough can more or less match silent running with some ship/module configurations, but mileage may vary.

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

There is an inconsistency between chaff effects versus players and versus AI - we will get round to fixing that.

One final point: authority ships are *much* more likely to scan bigger ships, scan them first and try to scan them quickly. Sma

 

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commanders!

Also, AI *do* have to have cargo scanners fitted to perform cargo scans.

 

[Arjin]

Hello Commanders!

Just to clear up any confusion: heat sinks *do not* affect your emissions signature. They simply dump heat build up from your ship to prevent your modules and hull from cooking.

Silent running is the best way to ensure that your signature is minimised as it actively reduces your emissions to a minimum.

Turning off lots of modules will reduce your signature - doing it enough can more or less match silent running with some ship/module configurations, but mileage may vary.

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

There is an inconsistency between chaff effects versus players and versus AI - we will get round to fixing that.

One final point: authority ships are *much* more likely to scan bigger ships, scan them first and try to scan them quickly. Sma

Thanks Sandro! now we just need custom profiles for silent running!

 

[Drelthar]

That's nice, however, it seems like the additional rules for Ai eyeballing isn't just eyeballing. They seem able to scan you while "aware" which is inconsistent with player rules. Thier ability to scan needs to be linked to thier ability to target you, which should be linked to sensor strength vs signature.

Which should mean they need to get to within 3-500 (or "more..." unexplained distance, testing could confirm) in order to start, or continue to scan, while signature is miniscule (silent running, or no modules etc)

It -appears- they can still scan, and target /use gimbals/turrets, while within awareness range, whereas humans cannot target, scan, or use auto targeting weapons, unless they are within auto resolve range.

This may not be the case in the code, however, it is what it seems like is happening.

Which is what causes the confusion.

Essentially, going silent and getting over 500(ish) meters away, should break a scan.

Also. We get "scan detected" but no feedback on scan progress, or if it has broken. This would be very useful feedback to have.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

It's probably been mentioned but silent running should have your ship at 0% external heat regardless of your internal temp. It's not the heat sinks which are technically the problem here but likely either a bug with scanning, or a buff to scanning. I've noticed also that boosting and going silent isn't breaking scans any longer, but only good for preventing them in the first place, although this is quite hard to do when scanned right out of sc.

 

[freedom4556]

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

A number of kilometers? That seems a bit much to me, Sandro. Also, any thoughts that this might not be fair with regard to scans? As a for instance, when a player is eyeball tracking a target, we don't get the scan that resolves the target's wanted status, which is what causes the smuggling missions to fail, no? The current system makes sense from a combat perspective, especially when trying to use silent running to shake aggressors, but it doesn't seem very fair with regard to trying to do "don't get scanned" type missions.

Thanks again!

 

[GilliganTX]

A number of kilometers? That seems a bit much to me, Sandro. Also, any thoughts that this might not be fair with regard to scans? As a for instance, when a player is eyeball tracking a target, we don't get the scan that resolves the target's wanted status, which is what causes the smuggling missions to fail, no? The current system makes sense from a combat perspective, especially when trying to use silent running to shake aggressors, but it doesn't seem very fair with regard to trying to do "don't get scanned" type missions.

Thanks again!

8km, IIRC, is the distance required to break sensor lock.

Check his second post, NPC's use cargo scanners, not the initial ID scan, to fail your smuggling missions. So 1.5km, should be enough distance to evade the NPC cargo scan.

 

[Bacalao]

That's nice, however, it seems like the additional rules for Ai eyeballing isn't just eyeballing. They seem able to scan you while "aware" which is inconsistent with player rules. Thier ability to scan needs to be linked to thier ability to target you, which should be linked to sensor strength vs signature.Which should mean they need to get to within 3-500 (or "more..." unexplained distance, testing could confirm) in order to start, or continue to scan, while signature is miniscule (silent running, or no modules etc)It -appears- they can still scan, and target /use gimbals/turrets, while within awareness range, whereas humans cannot target, scan, or use auto targeting weapons, unless they are within auto resolve range.This may not be the case in the code, however, it is what it seems like is happening. Which is what causes the confusion. Essentially, going silent and getting over 500(ish) meters away, should break a scan.Also. We get "scan detected" but no feedback on scan progress, or if it has broken. This would be very useful feedback to have.

Pretty much this. Silent running seems to do a good job at keeping you from getting noticed (boost makes you very visible and is not hidden by silent running), but once locked the NPC never loses target lock like a player does and losing lock does not seem to reset the scan timer like it does for players.

 

[goemon]

8km, IIRC, is the distance required to break sensor lock.

Check his second post, NPC's use cargo scanners, not the initial ID scan, to fail your smuggling missions. So 1.5km, should be enough distance to evade the NPC cargo scan.

if they have a class cargo scanners they could scan you technically from 3,5 km distance.

 

[GilliganTX]

if they have a class cargo scanners they could scan you technically from 3,5 km distance.

That *SHOULD* seem to be the case, but in practice, I have not been scanned outside of 1.5km. I've seen enough players report the same to feel confident enough to say that it *SHOULD* be sufficient to evade the scan.

But you are right, in that, *IF* the NPC cargo scanner follows the same rules as a PC cargo scanner, anything inside of 5km isn't safe. However, we have enough evidence that NPCs and their equipment do NOT abide by the same rules that govern PCs, so...

*shrug*