Is it just 'grinders' who feel the game lacks depth?

[Sanderson]

Do:
one trade to another system that you're not currently in
one exploration to an unexplored system
one mission
one act of piracy
one military rank progression
one mining expedition
one planetary landing and subsequent POI discovery
one act of random kindness
one expedition to find alien artifacts
one distress call were you transfer fuel or repair a stranded ship
one battle at a high conflict zone
one battle at a low conflict zone
one bounty hunt of another wanted commander
one time join a "power" and do a mission to help that power
one time play Arena until you get one rank
one of the previous with another commander in multiplayer

Do these things while trying to stay alive and advance your financial standing and or ship components.

When you're done with that come back and I'll give you more content to do because there's more to be done. Most will have already spent more time in ED by this point than you do in other games. I'll see you when you get back.

 

[dxm55]

I purchased Horizons..... and then stopped playing 2 weeks after that.
Apparently planetary landing and bounding around in the SRV held my interest for about 2 trips, and that was that.
Flying around generally featureless dead rocks, with the odd settlement and bases just didn't do anything for me. The SRV driving was pretty boring too, you just bounced around a lot and that got old in 5 minutes.


I was back into the RES shooting down ships, which is always way more fun than explorations or trading.
Then I got bored and stopped playing altogether. Will wait till the next update to see if anything else holds my interest.

 

[Jenner]

Let's stop with the personal attacks please. Everyone who is abiding by forum rules has a 'right' to be here and to post their thoughts. Discuss the topic, not the posters. Thanks.

 

[ShimEnki]

I'll admit I didn't read the wall of text but, I feel compelled to reiterate what I said two years ago:

I love the grind. The "grind" is the freedom to go and do what you want, on your own schedule, without the simple minded carrot leading you down a short path to "fun". If the game is a "grind" for anyone, change your gameplay, mix it up, use your imagination. Too many people, IMO, are too used to being lead down a path concentrated excitement, which usually ends in a week (if that) or less.

Space is not some action movie adrenaline rush (although in ED it can be) it's a lot of things but, a "grind" is not one of them.

Indeed.

The definition of shallow to many is the absence of imposed hallways and steps so to speak that dictate what you are to do next, and what you cannot.

To engage a game like this and experience that freedom and aliveness requires one to operate from self depth.
The only way one can possibly perceive this game as shallow is if one requires those hallway handrails and walkers and all those imposed story line dictates that appear to create depth...when in fact that form of depth refers to superficial cognitive slavery.

That grind will immediately release as soon as one releases demand for the game to dictate your next action and determine what that action actually means.

 

[Sanderson]

Everyone has there opinion and I truly feel for those that already are bored with ED but, to me, when I picture it in my mind I see two kids at a playground. One is having fun running around trying the various equipment provided and playing with other children. The other is bored because a parent isn't there to tell them to go swing, or slide or to play with other kids.

If you stop waiting for the "parent" to tell you what to do and instead go and see what you can discover and are still bored, well I honestly feel for you, because us other kids are having a lot of fun. This is just an analogy, I'm not calling anyone a child.

 

[Roybe]

I think it's just a matter of 'why?'.

If you can imagine a 'why?', then the game has lots to do to reach the intrinsic reason you asked the question.

If you want the game to provide the answer to your question, 'Why should I play the BGS?', 'Why is it important that I kill this NPC?', 'Why does it matter if I....<fill in the blank>? then the game will come across as shallow.

Not sure it there is a right or wrong here...it's just a matter of personal feelings towards what a game does. This game does not give you any reasons for 'why?' whether you enjoy creating those reasons or not is entirely up to you as a player.

 

[Sanderson]

Nevermind, I'm not going to respond to personal attacks.

 

[Dbrn47]

Nevermind, I'm not going to respond to personal attacks.

No one attacked you personally, just the words you are using and the logic behind them.

 

[Marcus Tullius]

People are grinding, because they don’t have what else to do. Off topic: do you know guys, what I’m thinking, when I see a post like this: *I love the game, but…*. Sorry guys, but there is a rule: The *love* excludes *but*. The love is accepting something as it is. If someone says *I love ED, but…*, actually he loves space flying, the beauty of the Universe, but not the ED.

 

[Soliluna]

To answer the title? No.

To answer your post? I have no idea, because I don't grind, but I do find the gameplay shallow - except combat. Combat has a lot to consider - constantly engaging you and demanding you to respond to changes or events. Trading and exploration does not. Trading is so shallow I prefer to call it "couriering" as most of the trading gameplay is couriering goods rather than trading them. The actual trading gameplay is buy most expensive commodity I can afford and sell it somewhere for profit, once route has been established, repeat. Exploration gameplay involves the same as trading minus the buying and selling, instead a one button scan and no stations. Pirating is like combat and trading mixed, smuggling is like naughty trading and mining is like playing spot the difference with asteroids.

That's not to say that it can't be enjoyed - but the gameplay is shallow. I would say even Candy Crush Saga is more engaging and has more to consider than mining where it concerns gameplay. At the same time, Candy Crush Saga is boring and mining isn't. I think the gameplay would benefit from depth in certain areas, however other areas are great and others still just need some variety.

Digressing a bit...

I find it funny that there are so many posters still saying that it takes intelligence/imagination to make your own fun in the game while arguing the game has depth because of it. If you're needing to populate the game with your imagination that means the game is lacking in something and you're making up for it.

I wonder if anyone has ever suddenly gone "By jove you're right! If I just imagine, there are infinite possibilities. This game is AMAZING!".

And I definitely wouldn't say this game needs intelligence to play, I play a lot of games and Elite is not one that I can say greatly challenged me or required massive input. Actually I would say completely the opposite, Elite is relaxing for the most part.

 

[Cynaqq]

Well, he said this earlier in the thread:



So it seems that playing pretend is, in fact, intellectually stimulating for him.

Actually, going by current state of neuroscience, playing pretend is the most intellectualy stimulating thing you can do with your brain.

It's just that there are layers to playing pretend. You can go 'aaaaargh! I'm space pirate! Like me somme yer loot ye got thar!' and then get disappointed you can't have a hook and eye patch in game or you can be an intellectual space pirate who can speak proper language, who is aware of what system he is operating in, how his actions tie in with what is going on in that system and systems nearby, how many people are visiting each day and how that seem to affect influences in those systems. In turn, you can determine the most likely route to have the most lucretive trade, and try to force the political state producing that lucretive trade on that route.

The tools to do either are already in game.

 

[Sanderson]

To answer the title? No.

To answer your post? I have no idea, because I don't grind, but I do find the gameplay shallow - except combat. Combat has a lot to consider - constantly engaging you and demanding you to respond to changes or events. Trading and exploration does not. Trading is so shallow I prefer to call it "couriering" as most of the trading gameplay is couriering goods rather than trading them. The actual trading gameplay is buy most expensive commodity I can afford and sell it somewhere for profit, once route has been established, repeat. Exploration gameplay involves the same as trading minus the buying and selling, instead a one button scan and no stations. Pirating is like combat and trading mixed, smuggling is like naughty trading and mining is like playing spot the difference with asteroids.

That's not to say that it can't be enjoyed - but the gameplay is shallow. I would say even Candy Crush Saga is more engaging and has more to consider than mining where it concerns gameplay. At the same time, Candy Crush Saga is boring and mining isn't. I think the gameplay would benefit from depth in certain areas, however other areas are great and others still just need some variety.

Digressing a bit...

I find it funny that there are so many posters still saying that it takes intelligence/imagination to make your own fun in the game while arguing the game has depth because of it. If you're needing to populate the game with your imagination that means the game is lacking in something and you're making up for it.

I wonder if anyone has ever suddenly gone "By jove you're right! If I just imagine, there are infinite possibilities. This game is AMAZING!".

And I definitely wouldn't say this game needs intelligence to play, I play a lot of games and Elite is not one that I can say greatly challenged me or required massive input. Actually I would say completely the opposite, Elite is relaxing for the most part.

That's one of the good things about ED, there's something for everyone. Want mindless combat? It's in there. Want to meticulously plan an expedition to a remote location in a ship with limited jump/fuel capabilities? it's in there.

There is literally an entire Galaxy in ED, look at it as a "choose your own adventure" or "Blaze your own trial" but, don't blame FD if you (not you personally) can't .

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Elite isn't more grindy than other mmos, it's just that other mmos hide the fact that they're grinders far better, and have more side activities that can just be done for fun and nothing else. Also the environments of other mmos lend themselves more to stopping to smell the roses than being encapsulated in a giant sphere with a texture map with stars on it.

This is mostly subjective though. What you're seeing when you see people complain about the game being shallow or grindy, I believe is players like me who are a bit more fantasy than sci-fi fans, but enjoy media from both genres. The hardcore sci-fi fans I'm sure get a lot more enjoyment out of Elite just because they love being in the environment and it engages their imagination more.

 

[Soliluna]

That's one of the good things about ED, there's something for everyone. Want mindless combat? It's in there. Want to meticulously plan an expedition to a remote location in a ship with limited jump/fuel capabilities? it's in there.

There is literally an entire Galaxy in ED, look at it as a "choose your own adventure" or "Blaze your own trial" but, don't blame FD if you (not you personally) can't .

Yes but your mixing up your adjectives, combat isn't mindless - combat is the only part of the game that actually challenges your mind. Which is why there are constantly posts of people complaining about being blown up by A.I. or being unable to escape interdictions but never posts about people being unable to make profit trading or unable to fly around exploring.

 

[Sanderson]

If that is the case I believe he should be a fiction writer. I have immersed myself in many novels/films/games and unfortunately my imagination is not up to the intellectual capacity he claims to hold. Perhaps I am deficient compared to the average ED player...

Perhaps I should be but, there's no need as FD has created an entire Galaxy for me to play in. All I have to do is have fun in it. I don't have to "pretend" if I shoot an innocent pilot I'll become a criminal, because that's exactly what happens. I don't have to pretend that doing missions for a particular government will increase my military rank and allow me access to systems and ships that I would otherwise not be able to access, it's already done for me.

All I choose to do is participate in this fantasy Galaxy, the fun is in there waiting for me to take a step as opposed to being pushed down the stairs. This is, IMO, a "make your own story" game. I really feel for those that can't, don't or don't want to engage their imagination because it really is a lot of fun.

All I'm trying to do is help those that find the game boring because they feel it lacks content. One may find the existing game mechanics not to be fun or their particular play style may be lacking features in their view but, IMO, saying there is no content because there's no story mode or hand holding is incorrect. Obviously some disagree but, that's ok.

 

[Dbrn47]

I find it funny that there are so many posters still saying that it takes intelligence/imagination to make your own fun in the game while arguing the game has depth because of it. If you're needing to populate the game with your imagination that means the game is lacking in something and you're making up for it.

I wonder if anyone has ever suddenly gone "By jove you're right! If I just imagine, there are infinite possibilities. This game is AMAZING!".

I'm going to print these words out and rub them all over my body. The imagination argument is one that always makes me want to headbutt my monitor. Now I'm off to watch some Syfy.

 

[Insomnia]

I think it's just a matter of 'why?'.

If you can imagine a 'why?', then the game has lots to do to reach the intrinsic reason you asked the question.

If you want the game to provide the answer to your question, 'Why should I play the BGS?', 'Why is it important that I kill this NPC?', 'Why does it matter if I....<fill in the blank>? then the game will come across as shallow.

Not sure it there is a right or wrong here...it's just a matter of personal feelings towards what a game does. This game does not give you any reasons for 'why?' whether you enjoy creating those reasons or not is entirely up to you as a player.

This. Soo much this.

 

[Mercy Killing]

I don't grind in my games. I grind in real life. My job is in a manufacturing facility for aerospace parts. Injection molding, to be precise. All day long (12.5 hour shift) I do repetitive, boring tasks that require little to no thought at all.

I don't want the same thing in my game. This is why I do not participate in Power play. It's why I didn't purchase the "DLC" that just came out.

At the end of the day, this game IS just the same repetitive tasks, over and over again, which is why I rarely log in and play any more, and when I do log in, it's rarely for more than an hour or so.

 

[Phord Prefect]

A little grindy at times I suppose. Have to earn those spacebucks to buy toys somehow. And the toys I want cost a lot of spacebucks. So, even doing the fotw spacebuck earner, it'll take a while.

Worth it though, imo. The toys are a ton of fun to play with.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The game is easy, and certain rewards (Cutter, Corvette) require grinding, i.e. the same process over and over (rep farming)

I think what the OP is saying is to get those rewards, you don't need to grind. Just do it a bit slowly while doing other things. It about the journey not the destination. I have got an Imperial Clipper, I did not grind to get it, as I took my time, I did the rank missions whenever I wanted.

As has been stated. It's only grind if you make it a grind. But if you go with a mindset of wanting that ship ASAP then grind away. That is your choice to make, you have decided to grind the missions etc. Nobody has forced you into it.