Exactly. My home is Zeta Horologii, May Port. I've lived there for about a year now. It is currently operated by VSOP Privateers. They like me because I turn in bounties for them. However, I have no attachment to them. I honestly, at this point, could care less who owns the station. I wish that weren't so. I wish I had a reason to care.
Is it just 'grinders' who feel the game lacks depth?
- Thread starter Bill Clement
- Start date
Exactly. My home is Zeta Horologii, May Port. I've lived there for about a year now. It is currently operated by VSOP Privateers. They like me because I turn in bounties for them. However, I have no attachment to them. I honestly, at this point, could care less who owns the station. I wish that weren't so. I wish I had a reason to care.
Well done, I would say
I never cared about who was controlling ANY system or how I could overthrow it.
I feel like I am wondering aimlessly around the stars, looking for the best buck for my time.
Personally I find it is the lack of complexity in the gameplay mechanics that makes the game feel like a grind.
The already mentioned current implementation of exploration versus the outline in the DDF is a prime example of the possibility and potential this game has compared to what it is currently delivering.
The idea's are there and FD are more than aware of them, they just need to get round to the actual implementation. Thankfully I purchased the premium beta so I have shelved the game for now and check back occasionally around the milestone releases to see how its progressing. I honestly hope that FD manage to create the game outlined in the DDF as currently it feels like I have purchased a rather expensive tech demo...
The already mentioned current implementation of exploration versus the outline in the DDF is a prime example of the possibility and potential this game has compared to what it is currently delivering.
The idea's are there and FD are more than aware of them, they just need to get round to the actual implementation. Thankfully I purchased the premium beta so I have shelved the game for now and check back occasionally around the milestone releases to see how its progressing. I honestly hope that FD manage to create the game outlined in the DDF as currently it feels like I have purchased a rather expensive tech demo...
I would not directly say that the game is shallow.
The Background simulation is very interesting BUT it is not obvious, or lets say, not obvious enough that you are affecting a whole System.
Once you complete a mission, you get this teenie tiny Screen saying that you made some changes on the state of a faction and you close it quickly without paying much attention to it.
You just cannot display the state of a System and the people living in it in a more or less-filled bar. That... just doesnt feel right
I agree with this - the BGS is one area where there is a lot of depth: multiple states the system can be in, faction expansions, flipping systems. etc. There are some problems with it though: as you say, it's not obvious enough. If a system enters Boom you should see a huge increase in traffic and traders, both numerically and in size/cargo. When in Bust, the station could start falling into visible disrepair. If in conflict you'd expect military vessels to be milling around the stations in formation, perhaps the in-station announcements become more military in nature. etc..
And the BGS is also quite buggy.
No. I will never spend money on "DLC" or "Expansions" unless they have an equivalent amount of content as he base game does.
All Horizons did (in my opinion) is add the same airless, lifeless world to the game, just recolored. Sometimes that world has a base on it. Sometimes it doesn't. Even as shallow as the "base game" is....it's still more content than that.
Dang! So, the game isn't worth playing because you don't enjoy it! Something strange here... because i really enjoy it! That either means that i'm wrong for enjoying it, or you are wrong for making such an blanket statement. Hmm.... i wonder which it could be...
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I got some bad news for you mate. I love the game and think it is great warts and all. According to my wife I am always wrong ..... Therefore by extension sadly so are you
Pretty much how I predicted the thread would go in my initial post. Easy to predict when every similar thread has gone the same way. However, Soliluna is my refuge in this one, he/she really gets it. While our lack of enjoyment stems from "lack of imagination" I can easily, (and have), said that those getting supreme and extended enjoyment out of it are merely easily entertained, it's just an opinion after all. In either case, the argument doesn't end and we get nowhere. So really, what are we doing? We aren't going to change each others minds. Its up to FDev to change my mind, your mind and Soliluna's mind about the game.
For my last lap around Lake Insanity, I'll go with this: Joe Forum isn't going to convince people like us who have hundreds and probably thousands of hours in game that there is some grand experience to be had in the game that we just haven't seen yet because we are blind to it somehow. I've seen all of it and it isn't good enough. Done.
Judging by previous updates and issues, I am pretty sure that 2.1 will NOT give us the depth. The ED game is great fun, but I keep leaving it to play other stuff, because some aspects are just a repetitive grind. There is no persistence, no real impact on your surroundings and you are unable to interact in any meaningful way with other players. (Other than a wing and PvP.). I am sure the fan base will say I have no imagination.....which is wrong, I can imagine how good this game could really be if some of these issues were addressed. Right now IMHO the game gets a score of 6/10....it could so easily get 8/10 or 9/10
No it's not just the grinders that feel the game is empty. I have basically done whatever I fancy doing since day 1. I'm just waiting for 2.1 to see what happens from then on. I generally feel the game is far to easy. It only really gets exciting when your sitting in a corvette with naff all money for insurance and you have just lost your shields. I've just spent £15 on American truck simulator and tbh it's more fun driving a truck around America than it is to fly around several billion stars in a space ship.
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ED is a game of many different core game play loops. When viewed from a metaphorical distance the ED game landscape presents the image of having a lot going on, and there is indeed a lot going on; lots of individual core game play loops -- some intertwined, others not so much -- all jostling for attention.
The problem starts to become apparent when you focus in on individual core game play loops and you soon discover that they're actually very basic; there really isn't much going on there.
ED doesn't need more game play loops. It needs to have its existing loops fleshed out.
The problem starts to become apparent when you focus in on individual core game play loops and you soon discover that they're actually very basic; there really isn't much going on there.
ED doesn't need more game play loops. It needs to have its existing loops fleshed out.
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This - so much this! I cannot understand people who find Elite challenging. Time consuming, sure, beautiful at times, and even fun just because it is a good looking space sim with pleasant (if not challenging) flight mechanics
I wish there was more room for skill based improvement in this game outside of PvP. As it stands every single objective in this game is achievable through repetitive grind of easy missions/mechanics.
I'm not waving them away, they are simply very limited actions with very obvious "correct answer" choices. A lot of them are also not limited to exploration at all, it is only outfitting that offers a significant variance on exploration gameplay and pretty much only through jump distance.
I do the same route optimising when I jump around the bubble in my FAS. There is no depth to my jump calculations, it's "I want to go here, there are stations I can refuel at here and where there are no stations I need to use my fuel scoop so I should set the filter on the map." The considerations are not deep and the considerations are not limited to exploration. Rather than lots of alternatives that yield similar net effects but through different mechanisms you are exposed to the same gameplay and results regardless of choice. Jump. Scoop. Jump. Scan at will.
The "risks on navigating surfaces" is not exploration gameplay, you are exposed to the same risks regardless of exploration, combat, trading, mining - whatever, it is just a risk of flying over/landing on a surface. Are the risks more significant because of distance from the bubble? Yes. But the risks are the same, perhaps you pay more heed to them outside the bubble or they make things more exciting, but it is the same gameplay.
Jumponium is not deep gameplay, it is "do I need the extra jump range? Then use jumponium. If not, don't." It's not a choice that offers alternatives and different mechanisms of playing in fact it's not really even a choice. If you want to go somewhere and there is a jump too far you need jumponium, if it's still not enough try a different ship, if that's still not enough you can't go, it's that simple. I would say it's not limited to exploration because it's not but it's going to be mostly used by explorers the same way weapons will mostly be used in combat and the commodities market by traders.
I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy exploration, nor that they shouldn't enjoy Elite. But exploration is not deep, it is full of shallow, obvious choices with "yes this is right" answers. (The emergent, social game notwithstanding but that's created by the players, not the game). Deep gameplay does not have a list of "yes this is the correct answer" choices.
Compare the choices in exploration to the choices in combat. Combat has far more depth (reasons for doing combat perhaps not). Choosing to use pulse lasers instead of plasma accelerators completely changes not only how you approach a combat situation but how you fly in it. Outfitting weapons for combat has choices on how to achieve the same effect (target blowing up) and each of those choices changes the way you fly, far more than any of the choices in trade or exploration or mining etc. Deciding where to put your pips has a great effect on how you fly and what will happen during combat, how you approach the situation, which is not true for trading, mining or exploration. Deciding whether to us FAoff will greatly change how you approach the combat and the second to second gameplay decisions.
Btw I enjoy exploring myself, I haven't made any long trips though because I enjoy combat more and if I decide I want to do some combat it is impossible for me to do so once out on a trip.
Agree, some people don't understand this and confuse it with "you want a story mode" or "use your imagination".
I said it 1000 times and I will keeping saying it until the game evolves. The gameplay of ED is simple and not complex enough so when you do it the first time, every single time will be the same with the same outcome. It doesn't challenge you in any way and there aren't player skills involved.
You see, what bugs me is when people have to resort to blatant dishonesty in order to make their point. Far from not listening, Frontier Developments are probably the most personally involved group of game designers I've ever come across. No other game that I've played has come with such frequent updates, & frequent communications with the chief developers. The direction of the 2.1 patch, & the time they're taking to put it out, actually show they *are* listening, & have actually been listening since day 1.
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Its not just grinders its just a difference in what people are looking for out of games, some of the most popular mobile titles for example are clickers, all you do is tap the screen at an event with no other interactions. Does that lack content? Of course it does its mind numbing to me I'd be so bored within 5 minutes i'd want to top myself, that doesn't change that some people really enjoy games like that.
Exploration IS jump then honk, the fact that some players greatly enjoy it speaks more about their virtues as players than it does about the activity and thats the case with most of ED for me, some amazing players in a fairly shallow pool
Jump in & Honk will only get you the most basic data. You actually have to scan the as yet unexplored objects to get the full value from them. Can it be even more in-depth? Yes, of course, but its not nearly as shallow an experience as you're making it out to be.
Plus exploration is meant to be greater than the game mechanics. How many explorers seek out specific worlds, look for specific contents or system alignments? These aren't really game elements bar from included data, but become part of the explorer's adventure. What make's Elite smart is that to some degree, the gaming experience comes from how you approach it; the narrative is largely your own, that you supply to compliment game mechanics.
And yes can always be better, but I think exploration is more than honking or even cataloging planets. In this respect, exploration is probably the deepest narrative within the game.
Not true. I don't grind & I *love* the game.
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Ever since Horizons, a lot of the excitement for me is when I scan an unexplored planet.....& finding out that it's landable.
Just because it's your *opinion* doesn't make it *fact*. I always expected Season 2 to be the season when everything gets connected together-& all the Dev Updates suggest this is the case.
