Powerplay Prismatic Shields might be removed from the game soon

[Levicarnus]

http://imgur.com/D2qMdEb

As you can see in that image, Aisling Duval has taken perhaps the biggest hit she ever took to her power. All of this was done via undermining by a player group the effective size of 20 rich Cutter pilots who undermined Aisling Duval from the inside.

Do you like Prismatic Shields? Do you like how good Palladium trade profits are in Aisling Duval space (3000+ credits per ton if you do it right)? If you do, you should hate how effective undermining a power from the inside can be as well, because all of those systems in turmoil under Aisling Duval are her best systems, and it may be borderline impossible for Aisling to recover if this goes on.

You know what that means? No Aisling Duval in PowerPlay, no Prismatic Shields, and they happen to go great with trade ships like the Type-9 Heavy (I survived an Anaconda attack while in a Type-9 thanks to Prismatic Shields once).

What I mean to say is, now is a great time to petition to FDev to fix PowerPlay as soon as possible, because even a community of 500+ people like the one I'm in can't deal with broken game mechanics that allow just 20 people to royally screw things up. Also note that FDev's developers haven't been transparent on the situation, as there was a bug report my community made a month ago that still has had no real response (btw, Aisling had more like -177cc at the end of last cycle, how the heck has that transformed to -989cc???).

PowerPlay is the best reason to put over 750 hours into this game (at least to me), but if it can't be fixed, I have very few reasons to play this game.

 

[CMDR Argent Steel]

I figured more people would support her simply because she is hot.

 

[Conch]

i dont think they will remove modules, if AD falls, we get all access to the prismatic shielding.

and, DOWN WITH THE EMPIRE!!

 

[Infidel Deity]

What will actually happen if Aisling Duval falls?
If her power implodes?

 

[Thetele]

They won´t remove any modules from game. Why would they? Prismatic shields aren't problem. Why would they throw away work they have done to put them in game and remove one of the customization option. Almost year from release of powerplay and none of the powers have collapsed. She isn´t going to go away.

 

[Tataboj]

I'm with Aisling Duval for seven weeks now and almost every week the game is laughing at us.

 

[Arithon]

On the one hand, it is fair to speculate that if a particular Power falls from the game, that the special equipment they offer might become unavailable.

On the other hand, with the addition of engineers it could just as easily mean that ALL players may be able to find an engineer who used to work for Aisling Duval and who will now fit any commander's ship with Prismatic Shields for the right price. Which means special equipment will become more a quest item rather than a political reward.

Would that undermine PowerPlay? Possibly. But then it could be that if you already have a Prismatic, the engineer in question could "improve" it for you (less weight or power consumption) so having the PP reward remains advantageous.

 

[Apos]

Wow, that's a really good turmoil.

This might be the first time that Aisling-ites actually do something truly effective in 40 cycles.

Then again, people being afraid she will be removed with this turmoil being the best thing that ever happened to her seems to show why she went to the gutter in the first place.

 

[Tataboj]

Wow, that's a really good turmoil.

This might be the first time that Aisling-ites actually do something truly effective in 40 cycles.

Then again, people being afraid she will be removed with this turmoil being the best thing that ever happened to her seems to show why she went to the gutter in the first place.

Best thing that has happened to us? 7 of our best systems are in turmoil.

 

[Apos]

Best thing that has happened to us? 7 of our best systems are in turmoil.

Early in the morning and misread the upkeep for income.

Well, best of luck. You won't be collapsing with just this turmoil though, so don't panic that much. Just fortify.

 

[Conch]

Best thing that has happened to us? 7 of our best systems are in turmoil.

Seems to me like a you guys arrent fortifying enough

 

[aspiringexpatriate]

Best thing that has happened to us? 7 of our best systems are in turmoil.

I can't claim to know about the other six systems, but Nyalayan gives you a default upkeep profit of 64cc, right? After Overhead that system gave you all of 2cc of profit with default upkeep. That's really one of your best systems?

 

[Tataboj]

Seems to me like a you guys arrent fortifying enough

We fortified literally everything. But we also got almost everything undemined. From members of our own power.

 

[Martin Schou]

What, exactly, is it that needs to be fixed? Is it turmoil? Because that part is fine. Is it pirate-undermining? Because that would cause a huge uproar amongst a lot of other powers who use it to balance out their CC. Removing pirate-undermining would also make it impossible to undermine powers your power is aligned to (i.e. no more Empire in-fighting), which would be really weird in terms of the independents, as they could no longer oppose each other. Honestly, the only issue with pirate-undermining is that you get 5 merits per ton when it's dropped by a player. If dropped by a player, those merits should only give 1 merit per ton, because otherwise it's a great exploit for two friends to give each other 40 million credits each week.

Seriously - you want FDev to fix something, but you don't say what is broken, and how.

Aisling has been running with a massively defective PowerPlay ecosystem for months now. As such, if she had everything undermined and fortified, she'd be in a massive turmoil - which is where she is right now. The seven systems in turmoil are the seven most distant systems that Aisling has, and as such they're the ones with the biggest upkeep and hence they are the turmoiled systems.

That's how the mechanics have always worked. The only reason Aisling is in as much trouble as she is this cycle, is that someone decided to undermine her. It may have been through piracy, but she was undermined none the less, and this is the consequence of having this kind of messed up ecosystem.

Aisling has had months to work on fixing her ecosystem (turmoiling away really bad ones), but has constantly fortified her systems to get herself out of the starting deficit instead. Now she's reaping the consequences of those months, because instead of her players getting to choose which systems to lose, she's now being foreclosed on.

If she turmoils another set of 7 systems, it's not going to get any prettier. The next seven would be Kaukhe, Aowica, Syntheng, Yan Musu, Lulus, Cailli and HIP 114709, and I'm not sure which of those are default profitable.

Again, nothing in the mechanics that decide which systems are put into turmoil is broken. The rules are very simple and easy to follow. There are really only two things to blame for the Aisling's current situation - 1) Aisling's passive bonus, which makes it extremely profitable for grinders to push bad systems. 2) Aisling's organized player groups' unwillingness to turmoil away their systems.

 

[Tataboj]

It is the fact that just a few people pledged to Aisling can comfortably undermine the power from inside, using the known exploit.

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I can't claim to know about the other six systems, but Nyalayan gives you a default upkeep profit of 64cc, right? After Overhead that system gave you all of 2cc of profit with default upkeep. That's really one of your best systems?

I am not in game currently, that is what leaders said.

 

[Conch]

We fortified literally everything. But we also got almost everything undemined. From members of our own power.

how does that work? i know that 5C can be a big issue.
but that can be taken into account.

 

[Martin Schou]

how does that work? i know that 5C can be a big issue.
but that can be taken into account.

It's the piracy-undermining mechanic he's Tataboj is talking about. Available to all 10 powers ... wait, no. Available to all powers except the Alliance.

If you're an Empire pledge, and you want to undermine another Empire power, you have to pirate PowerPlay goods from their ships in their systems. Kill an Empire pledged ship and you lose a crap ton of merits. Steal one ton of PowerPlay goods and hand them in at one of your control systems, and you get 5 merits in return.

This 1:5 balance has been chosen because piracy is a lot more difficult than just killing ships, especially when you're not allowed to kill ships while doing it.

What has happened is that players and powers have figured out that they can undermine themselves by working together with other players and powers from the same major faction. This is the likely reason that Hudson is in turmoil this cycle for example. His players very likely chose to turmoil themselves (by giving their PowerPlay goods to Winters commanders) to avoid expanding into Okinura, as that would severely hurt Winters' economy and hurt their own slightly. This time, instead of the goods being pirated, the goods are simply given away .

This use of the mechanic is used to balance out CC at the end of the cycle, so powers don't end up with massive amounts of CC which they'll have a hard time keeping control of.

It can also be exploited to gain credits.

Player A and B are pledged to two powers from the same major faction, and they agree to help each other.

Player A gets in a ship with lots of collector limpets and meets B in one of B's control systems. B fast tracks 2,000 merits for 20,000,000 credits and gives them to A. By the time A has handed them in, A has made 10,000 merits for the cycle. A and B now switch roles and do this again. At the end each of them have made 10,000 merits and spent 20,000,000 credits doing so. Two weeks later they reap the 50,000,000 credit reward for their work, as they've made it to rank 5.

And if they're already rank 5? Well, now they only need 5,400 merits. As such they each fast track 1,100 merits and swap. Now they've made a surplus of 39,000,000 million credits each. To my mind, this is the only exploit in the whole thing.

Pirating from NPCs is difficult, and as such the 5 merits/ton reward is fine. "Pirating" from players is unlikely to ever happen, and as such the PowerPlay goods gotten from players from another faction should, at most, be worth 1 merit/ton. I'm not even sure it should be worth anything to be honest, but again - that'll cause a massive uproar from a lot of powers, as it'll remove the best way they have to balance out their CC.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

how exactly does undermining from within even work? i havnt followed powerplay since...well...4 weeks after its release?
edit: just read the post above, interesting to know that

i thought that the worst systems fall into turmoil first, but you say that those are her best...
edit: just read also i dont think that she will drop out. We had other factions on the last 3 lanks for several weeks, and nothing happened. I think Torval was one month in turmoil once

 

[Conch]

It's the piracy-undermining mechanic he's Tataboj is talking about. Available to all 10 powers ... wait, no. Available to all powers except the Alliance.

If you're an Empire pledge, and you want to undermine another Empire power, you have to pirate PowerPlay goods from their ships in their systems. Kill an Empire pledged ship and you lose a crap ton of merits. Steal one ton of PowerPlay goods and hand them in at one of your control systems, and you get 5 merits in return.

This 1:5 balance has been chosen because piracy is a lot more difficult than just killing ships, especially when you're not allowed to kill ships while doing it.

What has happened is that players and powers have figured out that they can undermine themselves by working together with other players and powers from the same major faction. This is the likely reason that Hudson is in turmoil this cycle for example. His players very likely chose to turmoil themselves (by giving their PowerPlay goods to Winters commanders) to avoid expanding into Okinura, as that would severely hurt Winters' economy and hurt their own slightly. This time, instead of the goods being pirated, the goods are simply given away .

This use of the mechanic is used to balance out CC at the end of the cycle, so powers don't end up with massive amounts of CC which they'll have a hard time keeping control of.

It can also be exploited to gain credits.

Player A and B are pledged to two powers from the same major faction, and they agree to help each other.

Player A gets in a ship with lots of collector limpets and meets B in one of B's control systems. B fast tracks 2,000 merits for 20,000,000 credits and gives them to A. By the time A has handed them in, A has made 10,000 merits for the cycle. A and B now switch roles and do this again. At the end each of them have made 10,000 merits and spent 20,000,000 credits doing so. Two weeks later they reap the 50,000,000 credit reward for their work, as they've made it to rank 5.

And if they're already rank 5? Well, now they only need 5,400 merits. As such they each fast track 1,100 merits and swap. Now they've made a surplus of 39,000,000 million credits each. To my mind, this is the only exploit in the whole thing.

Pirating from NPCs is difficult, and as such the 5 merits/ton reward is fine. "Pirating" from players is unlikely to ever happen, and as such the PowerPlay goods gotten from players from another faction should, at most, be worth 1 merit/ton. I'm not even sure it should be worth anything to be honest, but again - that'll cause a massive uproar from a lot of powers, as it'll remove the best way they have to balance out their CC.

thanks for the explanation, not gonna use this tho.

but this should be fixxed.

 

[Martin Schou]

I can't claim to know about the other six systems, but Nyalayan gives you a default upkeep profit of 64cc, right? After Overhead that system gave you all of 2cc of profit with default upkeep. That's really one of your best systems?

Keep in mind that Aisling has a massively skewed ecosystem. Out of 62 systems, only 42 have an income of 63 CC or higher. Only 26 has an income of 83 or higher. As such, she has less than 26 systems that are default profitable. Losing 5 profitable systems, no matter how small the default profit is, is going to hurt.

Let's look at in pure numbers:

HIP 95256: Default profit of 51.9
HIP 105391: Default profit of 37.9
Bellaung: Default profit of 28.9
Nyalayan: Default profit of 1.9
Blod: Default profit of 4.9
Mula Wendes: Default deficit of 19.2
HIP 3603: Default deficit of 16.1

All told this is a loss of 90.2 CC

Now, in the grand scheme of things, Nyalayan and Blod aren't that big of a deal, but their profit likely balances out losses from other systems.

The only upside of this is that if Aisling loses all seven systems, she'll be down to 55 control systems, and every system lost after that will result in her overheads shrinking quite substantially.

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thanks for the explanation, not gonna use this tho.

but this should be fixxed.

The piracy mechanic needs to stay, but as I said, I do think the player dropped merits need to be balanced out quite a bit. Either to 1 or 0 merit/ton, simply to avoid the credit making exploit.