(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP
- Thread starter Abil Midena
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Here's a counter-argument. Wings are ruining PP.
The exploit of wing'd CMDRs gaining merits when all they have to do is land one shot on the target to receive 10 merits is detrimental to the BGS.
One pilot, one kill, one set of merits.
PP should not be playable in open, or groups.
The exploit of wing'd CMDRs gaining merits when all they have to do is land one shot on the target to receive 10 merits is detrimental to the BGS.
One pilot, one kill, one set of merits.
PP should not be playable in open, or groups.
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O, why should nature build so foul a den, Unless the gods delight in tragedies?
Read: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327
Hey, keep making yourself believe what you want yourself to believe, it might come true one day.
Clearly you don't read what I write. When people are given incentive to play in a certain mode/modes under a competitive scope, there was no equality to begin with, the change is suppose to mediate that.
The fact that you don't read other people's arguments and refuse to address them is the cause to your complete misinterpretation or even potential strawman.
Anyone can claim anyone else's argument to be subjective/suffer from confirmation bias, it's ludicrous as an argument. Especially there are evidence stating the complete contrary to your assertion:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327
Read why there was never equality under competitive scope of examination then come back to me, before then, you're just covering your eyes and typing blindly away.
No, you are refusing to comprehend others' arguments that clearly take in the present situation and analyze them appropriately. You are either pleading ignorance to all arguments but your own or have an agenda hidden from plain view.
See how this speculation game gets really really fun?
Hi, Sandro. Thanks for chiming in on this thread. It is appreciated.
As you're likely aware, incentivizing Open in this way gives an advantage to "PvPers" within the context of the Powerplay BGS (if you will). I'm not sure if that's your intent or not with this "balancing" kind of a mechanic.
Many here have argued that Powerplay is a form of PvP anyway, which I don't entirely disagree with, but this kind of incentivizing of its PvP elements would make it more exclusively a form of PvP than what it currently is. Whether or not that is a good thing in particular isn't so much of a concern for me.
The risk and fun of playing in open has always been the reward of playing in open, for me. Alt+F10 and a lack of P2P instancing has been the main appeal of Solo to me.
At any rate, thanks for expressing your thoughts on these changes here and taking our comments into consideration.
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The devs stated clearly that they are reworking crime and punishment, why do you think they implemented this change around this time?
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Ah, so let's take out all friendly NPCs from all CZs and make tagging target impossible shall we? Then you can state that wings have an advantage.
Hi Sandro, thanks for stopping by.Hello Commanders!
Gosh, this thread built up steam fast.
I'd just like to make very clear a couple of points.
The concept of an Open Play benefit for Powerplay is purely for Powerplay, not any other aspect of play.
In addition, the benefit is *not* a personal benefit - personal rewards, such as merits, obtained through Powerplay activities would remain identical between Open Play, Private Groups and Solo Play.
Finally, this concept is nothing more than a discussion point right now. There are no guarantees that we will move forward with it, or when we would implement it if we do decide it's a good idea.
As you know, playing the BGS to support a minor faction is exactly like playing PP to support a power. Many people do both and both compete vs NPC's and PC's alike. After all, if folks stopped taking action to influence the BGS, faction influence would stagnate, just like PP.
I posted earlier in this thread the following:
Part of my concern is that if the devs accept this logic...
"At the moment, any way I slice it, I can't come to any conclusion other than Commanders in Open Play have a tougher time than those in Private Groups or Solo." - Sandro
...then how do they NOT apply it to other aspects of the game?
- trade, missions, turning in exploration data, BH kills and turning in bounties, CZ kills : All of these impact faction influence levels in BGS where players are competing with NPC and usually other player groups for control of stations/systems.
What parts of the game are left that don't 'deserve' a bonus for playing in Open because you have a tougher time by potentially facing other humans?
Is this just a case where you choose to apply this logic in one case (PP), but not in all the others where people will/have argue for it with the same logic (impacts to BGS)? i.e. FD will never (I know, dirty word) incentivize OPEN outside of PP?
What about actions performed in open counting in solo? I don't want players hiding in open to be able to affect my game
Pledging to another power to work against that power's interests will remain the only strong form of attack.
5th Columning is THE most effective way to oppose a power.
These changes are good and will bring 5th Columnists into open.
Which may have the side effect of identifying WHO is doing the 5th Columning.
Which may have the effect of raising the heat in the forums.
For an example take the recent Winters >NULL< Mahon incident.
That has generated a lot of noise - at least out on Reddit.
At least some of that noise is due to the clear ID of opponents.
Simililarly with SDC vs "Friends of Möbius" BGS war.
lots of noise and heat because both sides are identified.
Personally: I play in open and support any change that brings people there.
5th Columning is THE most effective way to oppose a power.
These changes are good and will bring 5th Columnists into open.
Which may have the side effect of identifying WHO is doing the 5th Columning.
Which may have the effect of raising the heat in the forums.
For an example take the recent Winters >NULL< Mahon incident.
That has generated a lot of noise - at least out on Reddit.
At least some of that noise is due to the clear ID of opponents.
Simililarly with SDC vs "Friends of Möbius" BGS war.
lots of noise and heat because both sides are identified.
Personally: I play in open and support any change that brings people there.
What about actions performed in open counting in solo? I don't want players hiding in open to be able to affect my game
Well, at least solo people have a choice to enter open and do something about it whereas vice versa doesn't work.
I know you're keeping up with the other threads on the subject, Sandro, so I'm not going to reiterate posts from them.. but seriously, please try not to make it anything intrinsic to a given mode. The equality of the modes is such a fundamental thing in ED that if you thought offlinegate was bad you've no idea what breaking that mechanic would do. I've personally brought a few dozen players into the game since it launched and this fundamental mechanic was a major factor for every one of them. As I said elsewhere I've no problem with a little extra bonus for taking on Cmdrs where fighting other ships is an intrinsic part of achieving a goal but that's truly as far as it should go. The moment you start considering a bonus simply for playing in a particular mode you're breaking a lot of very important stuff to a lot of players.
Hello Commander Abil Midena!
The difference between the background simulation and Powerplay is that Powerplay is explicitly designed to be competitive in nature, where Commanders are mechanically pinning their colours to the mast, so to speak.
However, you raise a valid point. In truth, it's impossible to to say with any certainty whether we'd want to push the concept a wider: we'd need to commit to adding it to Powerplay, then see how well it actually played out - that's a lot of bridges to cross.
The difference between the background simulation and Powerplay is that Powerplay is explicitly designed to be competitive in nature, where Commanders are mechanically pinning their colours to the mast, so to speak.
However, you raise a valid point. In truth, it's impossible to to say with any certainty whether we'd want to push the concept a wider: we'd need to commit to adding it to Powerplay, then see how well it actually played out - that's a lot of bridges to cross.
But this equality that people seem to champion for so much was completely non-existent under a competitive scope of examination. This change if anything attempts to bring balance to the mechanic.
So no longer one coherent universe across modes? This spells the end of modes as we know them. Not that I have a problem with it. Let the PvPers have Open. Let the more "frightened/cheating/whatever" commanders fly in the other modes, for as long as those modes last.
My guess is that Open would be empty fast, no matter how many peanuts you throw in there. And with no pray/cannon fodder to feed on, the PvPers would leave the game, leaving only groups and solo active. And again all good by me. I just really can't see the big picture here.
I'm happy to be educated.
Should have just made one big playground (Open) from the beginning, instead of working your way back to it. But that wasn't really what you were selling to begin with, was it?
I did not read all 24 pages, but I think FD first need to add more options how to play PP:
Lets look at fortification for ALD only way to fortify is to haul reports (it I remember correctly..i quit PP some time ago...) from Capital to control system...
Would be nice to have more options like combat, missions etc
Anyway, lets look at current state of PVP so the best ship is FDL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWez230kbt0
So for fortification its trade ships (Type6-9, Cutter) against A-rated FLD in Open..so is this fun gameplay...I am not so sure about it....
Sure Open players who kill everything that moves would be very happy...
Lets look at fortification for ALD only way to fortify is to haul reports (it I remember correctly..i quit PP some time ago...) from Capital to control system...
Would be nice to have more options like combat, missions etc
Anyway, lets look at current state of PVP so the best ship is FDL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWez230kbt0
So for fortification its trade ships (Type6-9, Cutter) against A-rated FLD in Open..so is this fun gameplay...I am not so sure about it....
Sure Open players who kill everything that moves would be very happy...
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The problem with the BGS is that people does not even know or understand that they are sometime working against other players, and when a lot of players do the same thing at the same time (because of a CG or something like Robigo runs), they can have a big effect on it, and then you have a similar problem that could be solved the same way.
Your proposition of raising the effect (and only the effect, the players should always keep the same individual reward as you've explained) on the PP should be ported to the BGS if you finally decide it is an improvement to the game.
I hope you will.
The design focuses confuse me also. Over 50% of players currently have no interest in open and competitive pvp, another percentage are open to negotiation, and a similarly sized portion actually enjoy competitive pvp. Removing any solo player influence from PP would just make an unattractive game feature all the more unattractive. This is unhelpful, especially when the feature needs coercion to get people involved with it in the first place.
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More than it already has? Do you want to make Open the easy mode?
We are 15 months into live and "Crime and Punishment" as described at launch is nowhere near implemented. The BGS mechanisms are Heath-Robinson (Civil War for days with no CZ, etc).
Even in PP Devs have had to step in on more than one occasion and manually "steer" the tiller against unforeseen consequences of their implementation.
I don't expect this change to go live before Season 3 is launched, if it even gets past the design draft.
Yes, I know this reads as snarky, it is meant to read as "Calm down dear, it will probably never happen!"
Even in PP Devs have had to step in on more than one occasion and manually "steer" the tiller against unforeseen consequences of their implementation.
I don't expect this change to go live before Season 3 is launched, if it even gets past the design draft.
Yes, I know this reads as snarky, it is meant to read as "Calm down dear, it will probably never happen!"
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