(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP
- Thread starter Abil Midena
- Start date
- Status
I've said it already and say it again - the best way to get people into open play is to make rebuy and repair cost from PvP deaths free. Bets to also not fail missions, erase bounty vouchers or exploration data. I am not being sarcastic here. Lots of MMOs function exactly this way - you die, you respawn, you continue. Minor inconvenience, nothing more.
This is a way to go...but then the tears of the fallen would not be so sweet.
IMO, the game modes are currently equal and Sandro's proposal would add an inequality to the game modes that does not exist at the present time. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just saying.
All three modes have the same effect on the BGS and simulation, that is equality.
But as you say, because of Sandro's comments, we can assume a majority of PP is taking place inside of groups and solo because of the added risk to playing in open. So lets say that, in general, because of the risk of, and occasional loss, those participating in PP in open, only contribute about 75% of the merits that their counterparts in PG or Solo do, and I feel that this is the case. Because of this, the developers are considering giving a 30% (made up) bonus on merits turned in/collected in open so that open players can contribute the same % of weekly merrits as their PG and solo counterparts.
This is called equity. It is not equality. If they follow through with this plan, they are making all three game modes equally equitable, by making them unequal.
Now, I do believe that it is the case that those who do participate in PP in open are handicapping themselves intentionally, for what ever reason (Honor, lulz, what ever), and as such, I am less inclined to concede that they are deserving of this bonus. Seems like intentionally injuring yourself so that you can get that nice disability check.
But I'm not all that opposed to it either.
Meh.
That will, hopefully, be part of the fix, but actually giving them much better scripting is the real fix. Given good scripting, even badly outfitted NPCs can be a threat, they use what they have to it's advantage, not just spamming chaff when the player has nothing but fixed weapons for example, or only firing missiles once shields are down instead of those being their opening salvo. That's just bad scripting there, which makes them no threat. Combine goods scripting with good loadouts and oh boy...flamestorms acomin!
Maj, catering to a minority is a mistake, if you've worked in the industry then you know this fact, it's been proven time and again by companies that no longer exist(for that very reason) to Blizzard, it's bad for business. PvPers are a minority in this game, FD doesn't cater to them either, the closest they've gotten is CQC/Arena, which was actually aimed at the console crowd as that's where it originated. It was simply easy to port over to the PC/Mac so they did it, hoping it would draw more of the PvP crowd in, which is why Arena came about as a stand alone product, attempting to draw in that crowd for the quick instant action PvP that's good for sale, horrible for longevity.
I play in Open mostly, I want the socialization that can occur there, and so far, my experiences have almost all been positive ones, but I'm not here playing Elite: Dangerous for PvP, that's just silly, it's not a PvP game. I'm a competitive PvPer, decades of that as my primary gaming, and this is not a game for that at all, even CQC falls short of a good PvP experience, too imbalanced, main game design shows through too much, and it's not at all designed for, around or caters to PvP in any way, shape or form. For PvP I have actual PvP games, MWO being one of my preferred simply because, well, giant stompy robots! Elite: Dangerous is a PvE game that allows PvP to happen, but it's designed around and for PvE, so that really screws up the PvP. Again, that shows even in CQC, they didn't rework the mechanics to make it balanced like they should.
Consider the above image, except, consider than the "shorter" child is the Open Power-Player, and that, instead of being born shorter than his taller, solo counterpart, he has simply decided to hack his lower leg off at the knee, and then whinge about needing an extra box because he doesn't have shins.
Last edited:
There's tens of thousands of Merits dumped into the nearest, over-fortified system without consideration for the "group vs. group" part of PP. There's dozens of over-undermined systems, because people don't really care about anything but their pew pew.
There's no in-game tools to organize PP actions and people are somehow too lazy to read up on all that stuff that's actually going on here or on reddit, so instead of playing PP, they think they play PP and waste huge amounts of "effort" into nothing.
How much bonus do we have to add to make up for ignorance and lazyness?
Is "reading" too rare of a skill, since it seems so hard to apply?
Logic too much of a challenge?
Curiosity some french mustard brand?
Last edited:
I'm inclined to say "none," but I'm a Libertarian...
I'm not sure that's inherent to the mechanics so much as it is to ANY open PvP system. Violence trumps all other activities. Even if a Killer loses a fight, they "win"; whatever activity the target was engaged in has been successfully disrupted, at least temporarily. The Killer can force any other archetype into a constrained range of choices: fight or flee. No other archetype can force a Killer to stop their chosen activity and engage in Socializing, Exploring or Achieving -- some Killers will voluntarily cease and desist to talk, for instance, but that's their decision. The Killer retains full agency while denying agency to the target.
.
Game designers seem intent on finding Bartle's equilibrium, where all the archetypes exist in a dynamic balance. I'm not sure it exists. All I know for certain is that when I choose to surrender my agency to another person, it is for rewards far more sublime than a virtual dogfight.
Problem is, people weren't demanding this change from FD, this was something Sandro came out with, based on the data FD has which shows that there is an imbalance between Solo/Group and Open in PP, he's stated that himself, it's based on the data they have, there IS a problem there and this is one possible for fix it. He actually proposed a 2:1 Power payout for Open:Solo/Group, which would indicate the imbalance is pretty damn big.
Keep in mind, they can see all the data, and this was brought about by that data, not PvPers demanding that FD give them a bonus to PP, most PvPers don't care about PP, it's a pure grind mechanic for some toys. They do it long enough for the various Powers to get the best toys, and that's it, because it's just a grind. 50m a week! Yeah, that's 5 hours of trading for me, takes more times than that to grind out the merits to make that salary...NOT an effective use of my time now is it if I just want to make credits. The toys, well, you get them and that's it, no reason to stick around doing all that grinding once you've got them. There's no reason for PvPers to want PP to be better in Open, it's easier for everyone to do it in Solo or Group...even the PvPers do that ya know....so...
This all came about due to the data FD has, not due to the players demanding it....might be folks need to consider that fact before making silly statements about PvPers being catered to....
So...
No source then for your so called "information".
Just more make believe with a hint of a dig at me because I do provide information from Frontier ( "throw about thousands of quotes" - you really hate my Wall of Information don't you. lol ).
Funny how for every post you make, you always lack source material or proof of your claims.
But feel free to claim PvP'ers and PvP is so important to Frontier, I'm sure that is why they built a whole game on PvE and don't even reward PvP in Power Play and PvP Piracy is the worse career in game followed by PvP Bounty Hunting.
Indeed, which is why I haven't gone so far as to say it's a bad idea or not needed. There are merits to the idea (pun-intended).
I'm just saying it's not about making the game modes equal. At the moment they are equal. This is about making the game modes more equitable in regard to powerplay. Doing so will make the game modes unequal.
That is just the fact of the matter. I'm withholding opinions on it, as I haven't fully formed them yet.
Last edited:
Plenty of organised PP and PvP groups have been calling for a change like this, I've seen playing in solo/group used as an insult/accusation against factions loads of times as well.
As I said, it won't cause everyone to want to play in Open, but it would make Open less un-appealing for at least 1 player (me). Based on the posts I've read, I don't think I'm alone.
Maybe, but this isn't true for me. I would welcome an increase in NPC difficulty as long as it made some sense and wasn't on-off like NPC Anacondas that can't even be bothered to return fire and then suddenly can out-turn an FDL.
Last edited:
As I said, it won't cause everyone to want to play in Open, but it would make Open less un-appealing for at least 1 player (me). Based on the posts I've read, I don't think I'm alone.
Maybe, but this isn't true for me. I would welcome an increase in NPC difficulty as long as it made some sense and wasn't on-off like NPC Anacondas that can't even be bothered to return fire and then suddenly can out-turn an FDL.
I'm also looking forward to better security forces. I play as a mercenary, and that often means finding myself on the wrong side of the law. It would be nice to have to consider a security response before accepting a job. I recently took a job killing 55 civilians in a nearby system to see what would happen. Security didn't care one bit as long as I didn't do the killing right in from of their canopy.
Why do we even have a Solo option at all?
Lets just get this over with and force Open on all players.
Let's just drop the 'Play as you want, do as you like, forge your own way' and just make it what it's been moving towards for a good while now.
(ie focus all the additional content on combat, but you really need to streamline the crud out of it, if you want to capture those CoD players and keep them).
Lets just get this over with and force Open on all players.
Let's just drop the 'Play as you want, do as you like, forge your own way' and just make it what it's been moving towards for a good while now.
(ie focus all the additional content on combat, but you really need to streamline the crud out of it, if you want to capture those CoD players and keep them).
Well you can't really say this...as you do not know who in the game might have his ear. There are plenty of people, I am sure, that contact him via PM...and he being a likeable fellow, would enter into conversations with some/many of them. Even if this is not the case, the PvP crowd has been diminishing quite well on its own accord...primarily from what they state as a poor design choice/idea...that the modes should give equal weight to equal work and the overall poor state of roles that should be more PvP oriented including Pirating and Bounty Hunting.
This, while dressed up as a fix to PP, is really an attempted fix to the imbalance between the modes, as the PvP people perceive it. By offering more power to merits in Open, the hope would be that more people would deliver them there....particularly if the numeric difference is going to be so large as 2:1....this would mean that for time spent, a player in Private/Solo would have to grind twice as long as someone in Open to equal out the difference. This MIGHT bring more players to Open, to try to deliver through the PVP players trying to stop them...IF they are instanced with the PVP players trying to stop them AND the PVE players can be bothered to play PP in Open.
Because it is the way the game was advertised, designed and then sold.
So lots of people would demand refunds if it were removed.
Others would just run private groups of 1 (ala solo)
And some would turn UPnP off (ala solo)
Look at this and tell me what's wrong with "Power Play"
Frontier: your systems are "too complicated" .. it requires 2 clicks to find out what to do. TWO! That is 60% TOO MUCH for your average player.
Your average player is lost, confused and useless.
Nerf this game to a point where I can sit my hamster in front of the computer and you would notice no difference in performance.
I tried to fortify such systems in Solo. Noone gives a rat's hairy tush about such systems. Noone would oppose me, since it is just waaay to far with a combat ship to ever go there..
I had to give up, realizing that as informed solo player, I AM USELESS. But go ahead and grant a bonus to open. That will solve aaaaalll those "issues".
(sorry for the caps, if I could grab and shake you, be assured I would )
Frontier: your systems are "too complicated" .. it requires 2 clicks to find out what to do. TWO! That is 60% TOO MUCH for your average player.
Your average player is lost, confused and useless.
Nerf this game to a point where I can sit my hamster in front of the computer and you would notice no difference in performance.
I tried to fortify such systems in Solo. Noone gives a rat's hairy tush about such systems. Noone would oppose me, since it is just waaay to far with a combat ship to ever go there..
(sorry for the caps, if I could grab and shake you, be assured I would
)
Last edited:
- Status