(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[GluttonyFang]

I'm sorry if I didn't remind everyone to don their prophylactic brain protector.

I think you should have done that before you made the post I replied to.

Edit:

What if I write "All the "PvE whiners on the forum" taking up too much of a majority on said forum and prevent balanced discussion needs to be addressed?

That's exactly the kind of thing you just wrote and what else did you expect other than me pointing out you're trolling the thread?

 

[Mohrgan]

I think the point is whether you get attacked or not you do take a risk, and even just that threat of risk is pushing people to PP in solo/group.

The balance Sandro is suggesting I think assumes that.

IF the bonus is only to apply when players are attacked I think it's likely the bonus would have to be higher to account for that.

FWIW This is Sandro's quote, he never mentions PvP. (although you can probably infer that)

It's all about PvP. The extra risk mentioned can't be from anything else because, there is no other difference between open and Solo. That being the case, why reward players for risk, if they don;t face it? We can isolate what the risk is, why not isolate the bonus. Those that PP in Open get rewarded in merits or influence for actually doing so. I would even be willing to just ignore the obvious chances to exploit the system, if they moved in this directions, rather than pay people off for risking the extra risk.

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I think you should have done that before you made the post I replied to.

Edit:

What if I write "All the "PvE whiners on the forum" taking up too much of a majority on said forum and prevent balanced discussion needs to be addressed?

That's exactly the kind of thing you just wrote and what else did you expect other than me pointing out you're trolling the thread?

Do you really think you are the guy to lecture me on forum post etiquette? Let me head you off, you aren't.

 

[Kristov]

> Objection your honor, assuming facts!

I present the forums as evidence of my statement your honor

 

[GilliganTX]

The game modes are equal in all aspects EXCEPT PP, that's where the imbalance is, and that's all Sandro's proposal addresses, the imbalance in PP and it only gives modifications to the Powers, the players actually get no direct benefit from it, no extra credits, no extra merits, nothing.





Since Sandro said the data shows the imbalance, sorry, I'm going to take his word over both of yours that there is indeed an imbalance, especially given that you two aren't exactly unbiased in the PvE vs PvP bit. I could give a rat's ass to be honest, I did PP for a bit, it's a grind, pure and simple, and outside of the toys for certain Powers, pointless as far as I'm concerned. I could see the imbalance when I did PP, it was a well known fact, you two are both aware of this, ANYONE doing PP and reading the forums for PP and the reddits for PP are aware of this fact, it's not only known and discussed but it's openly exploited. This isn't something that Sandro JUST made up to please PvPers, it's been known by the community for a while, so why the ?

Again, imbalance in the modes regarding PP only, proposal from a dev to fix that imbalance, which is based on the actual game data. Strong opposition from the PvE only crowd...why? All modes are supposed to be equal in all regards, remember? You folks scream and rant about that all time, but when an imbalance is pointed out that does shows Open is getting less than it should, you say stuff it?

Funny, I know for a fact that if Sandro had said Solo was imbalanced and suggested a modifier for it, you folks would be screaming it from the mountaintops and demanding FD put it in RIGHT NOW! Guess that all modes being equal really does mean, all modes being equal but OUR chosen mode is more equal then the other....

Perhaps I'm missing it, in what regard is Open not "equal" in effect to the other game modes with respect to PP? The effect of a merit is equal in all three modes. Now, I'll concede that it can be more difficult to earn that merit in open vs group or solo, but that has nothing to do with equality. "Equal" means one is not being treated differently than the others (everyone gets one box, even if it's more difficult for the shorter individual to see over the fence). At present, that is the case to my eye. All three modes are treated the same by the developers. Because those who choose to play in open like to make that game mode more difficult for one another does not make the game modes "unequal" (I'm also inclined to say that is "their" problem, they should figure out how to play constructively, if that's what they want).

The game modes themselves are equal. The fact that those inside one group like to make that group more difficult than the others is their choice. Modes are the same, those playing in them are not.

Looking at the statistics, it seems the developers have found the "merit output" (view of the game) per group to be inequitable, and in order to make it equitable, want to make the groups unequal, by treating one differently from the others (giving open an extra box).


Anyway, I don't think we really have any difference of opinion here, just seems to be a case of arguing semantics for the most part.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Do you really think you are the guy to lecture me on forum post etiquette? Let me head you off, you aren't.

Well, maybe you forgot that you were the one that said you wanted to "forum PvP" people for raising issue about combat logging?

So yea, I am reminding you of forum etiquette.

 

[Kristov]

It's all about PvP. The extra risk mentioned can't be from anything else because, there is no other difference between open and Solo. That being the case, why reward players for risk, if they don;t face it? We can isolate what the risk is, why not isolate the bonus. Those that PP in Open get rewarded in merits or influence for actually doing so. I would even be willing to just ignore the obvious chances to exploit the system, if they moved in this directions, rather than pay people off for risking the extra risk.

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Do you really think you are the guy to lecture me on forum post etiquette? Let me head you off, you aren't.

Psst, he's actually pretty qualified on that front as it happens....and I'm not a fan of his, him and I go at each other all the time, but I give respect where it's due, he's earned it.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Psst, he's actually pretty qualified on that front as it happens....and I'm not a fan of his, him and I go at each other all the time, but I give respect where it's due, he's earned it.

Appreciate the support.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I am not a mod so dismiss the following if you wish.

--

I am enjoying the popcorn .. makes me feel all warm inside, but it's not healthy for me.

Please - criticise the idea, not the poster.

 

[bitstorm]

It's all about PvP. The extra risk mentioned can't be from anything else because, there is no other difference between open and Solo. That being the case, why reward players for risk, if they don;t face it? We can isolate what the risk is, why not isolate the bonus. Those that PP in Open get rewarded in merits or influence for actually doing so. I would even be willing to just ignore the obvious chances to exploit the system, if they moved in this directions, rather than pay people off for risking the extra risk.

I edited my post above but essentially for the reasons I said, isolating the bonus has side effects.

1) It increases the bonus you must provide in the name of balance since the bonus is only being provided to a subset of players.

2) It encourages people doing a PP delivery to go attack someone on the way for "for the bonus". As opposed to trying to stay safe + deliver the cargo.


It's doable and could actually be more interesting, but it has at least a couple of side-effects which may not be wanted.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I am not a mod so dismiss the following if you wish.

--

I am enjoying the popcorn .. makes me feel all warm inside, but it's not healthy for me.

Please - criticise the idea, not the poster.

Yep, when an argument is obviously inciting conflict, point it out and put a stop to it to maintain the integrity of the discussion.

 

[Mohrgan]

I edited my post above but essentially for the reasons I said, isolating the bonus has side effects.

1) It increases the bonus you must provide in the name of balance since it's only being provided to a subset.

2) It encourages people doing a PP delivery to go attack someone on the way for "for the bonus". As opposed to trying to stay safe + deliver the cargo.


It's doable and could actually be more interesting but it has at least a couple of side-effects which may not be wanted.

No, you can have the same magnitude of bonus, it just focuses the bonus on those that earn it.

So what? I thought PvP in open was the good stuff? Why all of a sudden we a planning for players to stay safe and then give them a bonus?

 

[Dave1235]

OK. And what would that suggest?

Its not working and should be removed until they can fix it?

 

[Mohrgan]

Yep, when an argument is obviously inciting conflict, point it out and put a stop to it to maintain the integrity of the discussion.

Let it go. You can't make a career out if this.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Let it go. You can't make a carrier out if this.

As long as you stop inciting conflict with your argument, you won't find me pointing it out.

 

[bitstorm]

No, you can have the same magnitude of bonus, it just focuses the bonus on those that earn it.

So what? I thought PvP in open was the good stuff? Why all of a sudden we a planning for players to stay safe?

Eh?? You can't do that, it makes no sense. If you do that your calculations were totally wrong in the first place!

The fix then is to calculate the bonus required to balance correctly.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Duplicate

 

[Mohrgan]

What?? You can't do that, if you do that your calculations were totally wrong in the first place!

The fix then is to calculate the bonus required to balance correctly.

So? At least then you would actually be rewarding the extra risk. The risk of being blown up. Not the risk that you may be blown up. There has been a rough 2x's the influence for open PP mentioned. If you put a value on the actual combat you can reward for the risk directly. Do you believe that the risk of risk is worth more reward than the actual risk?

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I don't intend to, it's for the integrity of having healthy discussions.

Freedom fighter huh? I guess we are all lucky you are around to keep us safe.

 

[Kristov]

No, you can have the same magnitude of bonus, it just focuses the bonus on those that earn it.

So what? I thought PvP in open was the good stuff? Why all of a sudden we a planning for players to stay safe and then give them a bonus?

Since you don't seem to be aware of this at all, most of the folks in Open aren't there for PvP, we're there for the socialization that happens spontaneously when you are traveling around the bubble, that's it. PvP is a risk we face, but that's not why we're in Open, maybe you need to stop demonizing everyone in Open as PvPers who just want to gank you, because that's a far cry from the reality and it's rather insulting.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Freedom fighter huh? I guess we are all lucky you are around to keep us safe.

Well, these are Brett C's own words:

"Frontier advocates good discussion and encourages material to be posted, which might raise strong opinions. Please remain careful of how you express your views, and avoid an abusive or aggressive tone towards other people or a group of people."

 

[askavir]

Look at this and tell me what's wrong with "Power Play"

Spoiler

View attachment 108179
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Frontier: your systems are "too complicated" .. it requires 2 clicks to find out what to do. TWO! That is 60% TOO MUCH for your average player.
Your average player is lost, confused and useless.
Nerf this game to a point where I can sit my hamster in front of the computer and you would notice no difference in performance.

I tried to fortify such systems in Solo. Noone gives a rat's hairy tush about such systems. Noone would oppose me, since it is just waaay to far with a combat ship to ever go there..

Spoiler

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I had to give up, realizing that as informed solo player, I AM USELESS. But go ahead and grant a bonus to open. That will solve aaaaalll those "issues".

(sorry for the caps, if I could grab and shake you, be assured I would )

Have a virtual rep+, as I have no more to give you right now.