(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[GilliganTX]

Exactly how it should be Risk vs Reward

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Surely though you understand that by doing that, the developers are actively endorsing one game mode over the others, and giving it hard-coded advantages over the others.


That is a HUGE departure from the "Three equal modes" promise.


you can see how this would be massively disingenuous to many players who've supported ED on the basis of that promise? I think FD needs to respect those players the same as any other, and respect the promises that they made to them.

 

[Lestenio]

Bottom line: by boosting Powerplay rewards in open, my interest in it is rather decreasing instead of increasing, hence I'd wager you might miss your target to get more players to engage in Powerplay and perhaps would instead trigger the opposite.

Completely agree with you. I'm even less sold on the idea of PP than before.
I would imagine that some in PG or solo that take part in PP would likely give it too. Net result is it will do PP more harm than good.

 

[GluttonyFang]

How should I know everybody in groups with thousands of members? Not to mention that I'm not the owner of every group, it can always only be one.

Are you implying Mobius or a group like that?

Then it's still a controlled group with rules. If you want a ruthless battleground, then use Open Mode.

I just would appreachiate we call it by the name, its a supposed bonus for clicking open that has nothing to do with PvP. If it should be a bonus for PvP, said bonus would need to be tied to PvP. Otherwise its possible that someone doing some PP stuff in open without encountering any PvP, while at the same time someone in a group doing the same PP stuff and does encounter PvP but not he is getting the bonus but instead the other guy that didn't encounter any PvP. Because he clicked open.

It has to do with the potentialities of combative PvP. While I do agree that we should focus the reward on actual PvP encounters.

 

[Brimstone]

And, yeah, read my original post, kudos for doing so but are you seriously pretending that some of the other posters in this thread are 'alligned' to anything other than themselves and their ship survivability? There is no '', just clarity of observation, I clearly did not state 'all', I clearly did not state 'every poster' and congratulated those true powerplayers, so no, no '', just a reading fail on your part apparently. So, given that, I obviously did 'keep it in mind'. /rollseyes

So you're trying to point out that these people exist and some are posting in this thread? Okay. Kind of pointless, but fine.

 

[GluttonyFang]

2) Why even bring it publicly? You could have tweaked those values (and still could) in the background and as long as it wasn't a massive sweeping change, I doubt anyone would have noticed.

So you want FD to be less transparent...?

... What?

 

[Kristov]

And, yeah, read my original post, kudos for doing so but are you seriously pretending that some of the other posters in this thread are 'alligned' to anything other than themselves and their ship survivability? There is no '', just clarity of observation, I clearly did not state 'all', I clearly did not state 'every poster' and congratulated those true powerplayers, so no, no '', just a reading fail on your part apparently.

You know this for a fact? Or just pulling suppositions out of your rear? You make the allegations, you'd best be proving them or retract them. I haven't touched PP in months due to the way it works, 5th columnist and lost souls making directed actions pointless, just a grind for nothing of any value to me. And if you think the toys given out are THAT good, well...yeah, no, there isn't a MUST HAVE toy in the lot, that's a fact, the ONLY thing FD got right in PP, not a single MUST HAVE toy making PP a must for anyone wanting to do PvP or just do well in PvE.

 

[Brimstone]

2) Why even bring it publicly? You could have tweaked those values (and still could) in the background and as long as it wasn't a massive sweeping change, I doubt anyone would have noticed.

What if people were to eventually find out without being told first? How insane do you think the reaction would be?

 

[Majinvash]

Surely though you understand that by doing that, the developers are actively endorsing one game mode over the others, and giving it hard-coded advantages over the others.


That is a HUGE departure from the "Three equal modes" promise.


you can see how this would be massively disingenuous to many players who've supported ED on the basis of that promise? I think FD needs to respect those players the same as any other, and respect the promises that they made to them.

Except the three modes aren't equal, despite what anyone wants to quote or throw up.

Private wasn't even deemed necessary on the Xbox version, no idea about the PS4 one. So that is one example where it cannot be equal, cos they didn't bother with it.
Shared universe remember.

FDEV has said that Open is harder/more difficult *citation needed*. Even if only referring to PP, he clearly thinks one is different to the other two.

So, yeah they aren't equal and as soon as people stop fighting that fact, maybe we can stop having these circular fights and actually have the game progress.

**And cue Jockey with some post that we have all read and was written AGES ago**

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Hello Commanders!
I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay because Powerplay is the only aspect of the game that explicitly uses the concept of adversarial multiplayer, as opposed to the more vague ways that minor factions operate.

Hope this info helps.

Thanks for the clarification. That sounds more than reasonable. I was initially seeing it as rendering solo moot for faction play, and I'm glad to see that I was mistaken. The subtle difference between pulling players in open together to create a more lively environment, and pulling (or attempting to) players into open, is hard to convey in forum posts.

 

[Theodrid]

So you're trying to point out that these people exist and some are posting in this thread? Okay. Kind of pointless, but fine.

Not pointless, I am pointing out that some of the sudden fake interest in powerplay is exactly that, fake. If you think lots of posters pretending 'oh it hurts powerplay', or 'oh pwerplay is broken' when all they are really interested in is rapid farming for shields or weapons, fine, I don't think it's pointless, I think it is a disingenuous attempt to sway Frontier in a certain direction. Once again, to the true powerplayers, you have my utmost respect, to the rest of you, jeez, cut the droppings boys and girls and just tell Frontier you want you 'lazors' quicker, stop pretending.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You know this for a fact? Or just pulling suppositions out of your rear? You make the allegations, you'd best be proving them or retract them. I haven't touched PP in months due to the way it works, 5th columnist and lost souls making directed actions pointless, just a grind for nothing of any value to me. And if you think the toys given out are THAT good, well...yeah, no, there isn't a MUST HAVE toy in the lot, that's a fact, the ONLY thing FD got right in PP, not a single MUST HAVE toy making PP a must for anyone wanting to do PvP or just do well in PvE.

No need to prove anything, it's an internet forum, and the lack of posting in these boards reference powerplay from some of the posters, as well as other boards outside of Frontiers control does speak volumes, if that offends you, so be it. Why it is so offensive to some people to simply admit the blindingly obvious is somewhat lost on me but sadly typical in debates like this, I retract nothing.

 

[GilliganTX]

Except the three modes aren't equal, despite what anyone wants to quote or throw up.

Private wasn't even deemed necessary on the Xbox version, no idea about the PS4 one. So that is one example where it cannot be equal, cos they didn't bother with it.
Shared universe remember.

FDEV has said that Open harder. Even if only referring to PP, he clearly thinks one is different to the other two.

So, yeah they aren't equal and as soon as people stop fighting that fact, maybe we can stop having these circular fights and actually have the game progress.

**And cue Jockey with some post that we have all read and was written AGES ago**

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I disagree. At present all three modes are treated equally by development. That is the key factor. That is equal.


The fact that you can get different results out of either group because of that groups population is a question of equity.

At present, the modes are inequitable.

Being different has nothing to do with being equal anyway.


I'm Caucasian. Because my skin is different to an Africans or a Koreans, does that mean we are not equal?
We are no different in the eyes of the Gov. We have the same rights, the same laws to follow, ect (on paper anyway). That is being treated equally.


This is like affirmative action. AA is not equality, AA is equity.


If FD were to treat a mode differently they would not be treating the modes equally. At present, they treat all three modes the same. They treat all three modes equally.


Difference is not inequality.
Treating things differently is inequality.




On XB not having PG, sometimes technical limitations get in the way of intention. IIRC, they are working to mitigate those limitations and get a group mode for XB.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Private wasn't even deemed necessary on the Xbox version, no idea about the PS4 one. So that is one example where it cannot be equal, cos they didn't bother with it.
Shared universe remember.

You must have missed the memo - Private Groups for XBox One are currently confirmed as being developed....

 

[Majinvash]

You must have missed the memo - Private Groups for XBox One are currently confirmed as being developed....

No Robert, I got the fax.

But without being too clever, it wasn't deemed necessary at Launch was it?
If they didn't bother putting it in, they couldn't have deemed it of equal worth as Solo or Open. The two modes why DID include.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[GilliganTX]

No Robert, I got the fax.

But with out being too clever, it wasn't deemed necessary at Launch was it?
If they didn't bother putting it in, they couldn't have deemed it of equal worth as Solo or Open. The two modes why DID include.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Then that was a mistake they are working to rectify per keeping their "3=modes" promise.

 

[Majinvash]

Then that was a mistake they are working to rectify per keeping their "3=modes" promise.

How do you FORGET an entire mode? That is EQUALLY important as they other two.

Come on dude

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Lustan]

Cheers for the clarifications, but 2 things;

1) Have you considered how people can get the boosted values for expansion, fortification and undermining but not run in to another CMDR (pseudo Solo in Open) - as the only "undermining" going on would be your time, effort and hard work.

This doesn't make sense. They realize that "maybe" you'll run into someone in Open...not guaranteed but it should be expected where as Solo you expect to run into no opposition.

2) Why even bring it publicly? You could have tweaked those values (and still could) in the background and as long as it wasn't a massive sweeping change, I doubt anyone would have noticed.

People ask for transparency from Frontier. Providing this is being transparent. It seems they went public because they want people playing in Open for PowerPlay.

It's obvious based on Braben interviews and this that the player base isn't playing the game the way Frontier intended. And they said they were going to try to be more transparent to help people find gameplay.

 

[GilliganTX]

How do you FORGET an entire mode? That is EQUALLY important as they other two.

Come on dude

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

IIRC, they didn't "forget," but were faced with several technical limitations that they did not have the time or resources to circumvent in time for scheduled releases. The releases were made with the promise that the shared galaxy, groups, and so on, were all intended for xbox and would be implemented as that became possible.

They are making good on that promise.

 

[JosiahD]

This distinction is only done for risk assessment, and guess what if you know and understand the Elite mechanics and if you know what a dedicated PK and griefe ris you know exactly that riks= hazard. because you know which ships are able to take you down and which not. There is no "exposure" in the terms of the given equation the Wiki page gives. Because Exposurer here is 100% if you ae close to this kind of opponent and the hazard just equals the risk. if ushc a player is able to get you he will, if he isn't he won't. It is actually that simple unless someone makes a total derp style maneuver.

Incorrect methodology. If assessing risk of the activity - in this case open vs other modes - you must calculate the risk score based on ALL hazards exposed to, not cherrypick the specific hazard you're focused on. Cherrypicking a single hazard introduces bias. Assess the overall risk of one mode over another by looking at all hazards together (all but one of which require no other players). Open, as a whole mode, is actually no more risky than the other modes. Localised risk can be elevated by the presence of other players, true (although that's only a potential, not a certainty), but that is totally different to a broad brush sweeping statement that most make that solo/private groups present less risk than open mode. Elevated localised risk does not automatically translate to elevated risk across open mode as a whole.

 

[jabokai]

* I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay because Powerplay is the only aspect of the game that explicitly uses the concept of adversarial multiplayer, as opposed to the more vague ways that minor factions operate.

Hope this info helps.

That clarification certainly does. In that case, and as long as that clarification remains in force, have at it (IMHO)!

 

[JosiahD]

This is what a lot of people forget/ignore when entering a Open vs Solo discussion.

Indeed - POTENTIAL threat, not certain.