It will give us more things to shoot at, but when I think about getting constantly interdicting by foreign NPC nuissance agents that interrupt my attempt to interdict valid wanted CMDR PP targets, my blood pressure starts to rise in anticipation. They really need to fix Control Systems so that foreign agents only harass you if you are carrying PP cargo, kind of like how x-ray vision pirates will usually leave you alone if you don't have anything in your hold.
(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP
- Thread starter Abil Midena
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It will give us more things to shoot at, but when I think about getting constantly interdicting by foreign NPC nuissance agents that interrupt my attempt to interdict valid wanted CMDR PP targets, my blood pressure starts to rise in anticipation. They really need to fix Control Systems so that foreign agents only harass you if you are carrying PP cargo, kind of like how x-ray vision pirates will usually leave you alone if you don't have anything in your hold.
I guess i missed that. PM me the link, ill take a look.
General idea sounds bad... but won't comment until i've read it.
Oh no, it's not a fully written proposal, it's the idea where player owned faction gets to choose whether it wants to implement the potential PP change to its faction or not, but NPC factions don't have the potential PP change.
Since we all end up at PP when the factions we support get large enough, does that makes sense or is there something missing/unfair?
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Guess i'm not understanding something. While i've been in favour of FD tying Powers to factions, PP doesn't affect factions directly, although it can affect what happens in their systems and for example, what things are available. So... why should player factions be able to choose whether the PP changes affect them?
You're going to have to help my poor brain out here.
Well, the way I look at it is that Powers are just really influential factions. So do we want to give player owned factions the option to choose if they want to implement the potential change for Powers or do we keep player factions to be the same like NPC factions?
I know my own player group and some other PvP player group don't really care about the BGS in the slightest, but I also know those that do and do focus on combative PvP. Do we give player factions the choice to pick if they get potential PP treatment or no?
Actually I'm getting sleepy here, as well, so I might start to not make sense.
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Basically do we give those that really care about BGS the option to choose what to implement for their own faction or not? Doesn't extend to NPC faction, obviously.
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Player factions and NPC ones should be treated identically - they were (AFAIK) added to give you a sense of identity. Make enough noise and FD adds you in, then you become part of the BGS .. if you're suggesting that player named factions receive more special treatment I too am all ears ...
Edit: Unless you're referring to a player named faction that is promoted to a PP Power ?
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Hm, so it will be a race to make it a PP faction if the players cared enough. Since you can't really pledge to a faction outside of PP officially, there's no real commitment. Okay, that make sense I guess.
Agony, forget I said anything, the idea doesn't make sense, guess I'm too tired.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
While there are indeed Player Sponsored Minor Factions, they are functionally no different at all from any other Minor Faction in the game. There is no method of controlling who is permitted to become allied with any Minor Faction. Sandro also said that:
.... which specifically excludes Minor Factions from the considered scope of application of such an Open Play Success Bonus (OPSB).
Another interesting point is the use of language in one of Sandro's posts:
He uses "thousands" - not "hundreds of thousands" or even "tens of thousands" - just "thousands". That does not preclude the possibility that there are more than 19,999 player engaged in Powerplay (to some degree or another) but at the same time it does not seem to be that large a proportion of the number of copies of the game sold.
To consider such a fundamental change to the reward system for what seems, from Sandro's use of language, to be a small percentage of the player-base seems, to me, to be a bit over the top.
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Yep, Liqua kind of convinced me and you gave even more reasoning why I should remain convinced. Point taken, convinced.
Well no, you're tired .. I can see the potential in player controlled PP power people as tha really would give the players something to get behind.. Right now (to me) they're faceless NPCs (ignoring the blatant rip off from GoThrones etc for the portraits) - you align with one but so what .. it's an NPC who cares as much about you as most do about them.
If the dynamic was more volatile and FD stopped propping up the powers (and for once ejected one !!) that could introduce a player owned power; give them a reason to do something; they could (Within guidelines) set the powers expectations .. etc etc.
Now you have a real reason to care about the game. You and your mates worked the BGS to promote a minor player faction to a large player faction and becomes a PP power that anyone (by clicking the button) can join and help. No elitism (really - I have to prove myself by means of an application form for some of the larger groups
) and random people helping.Meh .. time to go work so I can't expand / write this more clearly as time is against me.
Well no, you're tired .. I can see the potential in player controlled PP power people as tha really would give the players something to get behind.. Right now (to me) they're faceless NPCs (ignoring the blatant rip off from GoThrones etc for the portraits) - you align with one but so what .. it's an NPC who cares as much about you as most do about them.
If the dynamic was more volatile and FD stopped propping up the powers (and for once ejected one !!) that could introduce a player owned power; give them a reason to do something; they could (Within guidelines) set the powers expectations .. etc etc.
Now you have a real reason to care about the game. You and your mates worked the BGS to promote a minor player faction to a large player faction and becomes a PP power that anyone (by clicking the button) can join and help. No elitism (really - I have to prove myself by means of an application form for some of the larger groups
Meh .. time to go work so I can't expand / write this more clearly as time is against me.
I see what you mean, good luck at work, and dare I say: have fun.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
From what little we know about Minor Factions being promoted to Power status, it would seem that a Player sponsored Minor Faction being promoted to Power status would give players no more direct control over that entity than if it was still the Minor Faction that it used to be.
Ah, got you. You're talking about when FD implement the ability for large player factions to become powers right? I believe that will always be optional.
It was a little different but it doesn't matter, I got convinced that it was a silly idea. Though it might be interesting for it to become optional for player factions when they do become Powers.
Either way, I'm too tired for the night, doggy needs sleep [zZzZz]
Indeed its a point of contention now since Sandro made his proposal.
While not everyone has been happy with the modes and how payouts or merits etc are the same for each of them, it was generally accepted when FD talked about all modes being equal, they meant they would not specifically favour one mode above another. Sure, there will be differences in terms of gameplay, and its not all one sided as some suggest, but for many of us, we were very happy that FD were being egalitarian about the different modes.
Along comes Sandro's bombshell, and now, people start looking at things differently.
Open proponents start to feel they are getting the recognition they deserve, that because open has the chance of PvP they it should be rewarded, and therefore FDs stance on equality actually means trying to make all modes equal in terms of risk vs reward. Its an understandable position.
On the other side, solo and group players are now feeling that they have been misled, perhaps betrayed even. No longer is equality about how FD handle the modes, now equality is about balance... and, dare i say it? We all know how "good" FD are at balancing things *cough* missile nerf *cough*.
If equality is not about egalitarianism but actually about balance, then naturally this is going to lead to questions like: When will there be NPC wings available? Its harder to go against NPCs solo than in a wing, which people in Open can do (and group of course), which makes doing Powerplay harder in Solo!
On the other side, and we have already seen this here on the forums and reddit, those who are getting very excited about this change, some of them are already calling for bonuses to Community Goals and the effect they have on the BGS "because its harder in Open". While Sandro has dismissed this, I actually feel by implementing a bonus for PP, those who are calling for a bonus on CGs and BGS actually have a valid position then. Sure, PP is meant to be more directly competitive, but we have seen plenty of times how doing CGs in Open is actually a lot harder in many cases. I'd actually be willing to argue that CGs in Open are a lot harder than PP in Open, because PP is spread over a large area, while CGs are focused in just one or two systems.
If the PP bonus goes ahead, i think bonuses for BGS and CGs would be warranted, and at which point, i'd be in a poor position of having to agree with that, but at the same time, i'd have to join the campaign for separation of modes and BGS... which i don't want. But there again, i don't want be treated like a second class citizen and competing (via PvE) against people who have been given a bonus just because of the chance they will face PvP is not a fair competition.
This deserved being posted again. +10x10^10
Ok, earlier you also used the term "coerced into solo/private" which of course is nothing short of silly.
Be reminded that the advantages in Open are being able to interact with other players. The way I hear Open advocates talking, it's the only true mode, it's much more fun than boring solo/private. All modes are treated equally at the moment. There are no second class citizens, and there are no privilegeds. What some gain in efficiency in PP, they lose in player interaction. Those who enjoy player interaction are a little less efficient in PP.
If this bonus goes through, the equality which exists now in the modes will be slanted towards Open. If you look beyond a spreadsheet model of efficiency of doing stuff in PP and look at the whole picture you will see that. Open advocates always bang on about how the thrill of unexpected encounters is improving the game? There's your compensation.
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I want unpredictable player interaction, its the bestp art of the Game!
A player attacked me, thats not fair, compensate me for it!
I want unpredictable player interaction, its the bestp art of the Game!
A player attacked me, thats not fair, compensate me for it!
Banks asking for bailouts after engaging in risky lending and loosing.
Agree completely.
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How o.o?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237773&p=3685353&viewfull=1#post3685353
I don't consider myself an Open advocate, I advocate for even ground on a competition for modes.
And why does game mode choice affects the even grounds in a competition? Treated equally? You mean this equality is based on an examination outside of the competitive scope, but PP is a competitive mechanic.
You seem to use arguments from these "Open advocates" against me as if they are my own. Well, they are not.
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