I do hope Season 2 helps Piracy - Today's experience just confirms to me it doesn't work very well...

[NeilF]

Uhm, let me quote myself.

"But from experience - hitting the right key at the right time works well, not doing so doesn't."

Hitting a sequence of wrong keys in any order is not fixing anything.

I jettisoned all my collector limpets on my first mining trip, trying to deploy the cargo scoop.
I paniced, tried targeting the next limpet to scoop it back and by accident targeted the next NPC miner.
I panicked even more and instead of hitting the "cycle target" button, I fired a full volley of mining lasers at him, getting immediate wanted status.
I got frustrated and bit in my desk, resulting in a loss of a tooth.
My dentist recommended I stop biting desks, but what does he know about broken game mechanics. Medical school does not make him a great game deisgner, does it?

True...

But a mechanic where the pirate risks taking a few seconds of inactivity as a sign of the victim is at "Exit to Menu," is clearly not helpful.

And even though I tried to show my willingness to "play along" by immediately lowering my gear and opening my cargo hatch, the fact the pirate didn't see/notice this, is clearly not helpful.


In short, the piracy process/mechnics are all a bit vapid, leaving all too many ways for the process to just not work very well

 

[Red Anders]

Why the first pirate opened fire? He thought you would log of etc. There is no time for you to think, you have some options. Be ready to drop cargo before he message you or start message before you see him ask about cargo. I would give my target max 10 sec to respond before starting to attack. Or you could have dropped the cargo after he opened fire, he probably would have stopped attacking if he was after your cargo. It doesn't take 10 seconds to drop 100 cargo.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the guy combat logged the pirate wouldn't have been able to kill him before he vanished anyway would he? Assuming you mean actual combat logging i.e. pulling the cable. (Which he did anyway and yes OP I will criticise you for it because if you're flying in open you do so knowing that you can get attacked and killed, there isn't an opt-out and FD have already confirmed they consider it to be an exploit.)

Depending on what ships they were both in, even a log-out from menu with the 15 second delay may not have killed him. Point being, 'thinking' that he was going to combat log is no reason for a pirate to attack him because if he subsequently did combat log, he wasn't going to get the kill anyway. As proved by the fact that's exactly what happened.

If the guy was trying to high wake or low wake then yeah, I would fuly expect a pirate to attack him but summary execution does seem a tad excessive as a punishment for not being the fastest around the menu system, as long as he's parked up and not obviously fleeing, I'd have thought the plan would be to wait out and see what the guy does next?

As far as jettisoning all cargo is concerned, it might only take a second to jettison 100 cargo (if you're one of the three players who haven't unmapped the 'jettison all cargo' key within 24 hours of starting playing lol) but wouldn't that have given the intrepid buccaneer a mere 20 tons due to the limits on canisters in an instance? Since the only way you can jettison anything less than 'everything' is by faffing about in the menu, at the same time as trying to talk to someone to stop them blowing your ship up whilst you do that, I'd have thought a little patience might be a virtue especially if the pirate is asking for 100 tons which is obviously going to have to be dropped in installments.

 

[NeilF]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the guy combat logged the pirate wouldn't have been able to kill him before he vanished anyway would he? Assuming you mean actual combat logging i.e. pulling the cable. (Which he did anyway and yes OP I will criticise you for it because if you're flying in open you do so knowing that you can get attacked and killed, there isn't an opt-out and FD have already confirmed they consider it to be an exploit.)

Well, my "combat log" was a jerk odf frustration at how quickly the process fell apart TBH, even between seemingly two willing parties.

I could have tried to simply fly away and jumped out I suspect. Or just sat there and watched my hull drop to zero. But neither of these would have rectified how the process fell apart and we couldn't simply make a "pirate encounter" actually work

So I tried to "reboot" the situation, to come back and try to make it work... But even that failed

As far as jettisoning all cargo is concerned, it might only take a second to jettison 100 cargo (if you're one of the three players who haven't unmapped the 'jettison all cargo' key within 24 hours of starting playing lol) but wouldn't that have given the intrepid buccaneer a mere 20 tons due to the limits on canisters in an instance? Since the only way you can jettison anything less than 'everything' is by faffing about in the menu, at the same time as trying to talk to someone to stop them blowing your ship up whilst you do that, I'd have thought a little patience might be a virtue especially if the pirate is asking for 100 tons which is obviously going to have to be dropped in installments.

I've certainly disabled the jettison all cargo key... And TBH, it would hardly have made sense to jettison 700+T of cargo to meet his 200T request. Especially when most of it would have self destructed. I don't think you can even jettison 200T without some of it self destructing can you?

 

[Majinvash]

Well, my "combat log" was a jerk odf frustration at how quickly the process fell apart TBH, even between seemingly two willing parties.

I could have tried to simply fly away and jumped out I suspect. Or just sat there and watched my hull drop to zero. But neither of these would have rectified how the process fell apart and we couldn't simply make a "pirate encounter" actually work

So I tried to "reboot" the situation, to come back and try to make it work... But even that failed

I've certainly disabled the jettison all cargo key... And TBH, it would hardly have made sense to jettison 700+T of cargo to meet his 200T request. Especially when most of it would have self destructed. I don't think you can even jettison 200T without some of it self destructing can you?

100 tonnes is the limit.

Even with 4 collection limpets, I have struggled to grab more than 80 before they expired.

Making them drop the whole amount if they fail to stop first request is a valid punishment.

Although we did make a T9 drop 300 in 100 amounts for 3 hungry condas and python once.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Gimi]

Just like we have a warning when the targeted ship enables the Frame Shift Drive, there should be a warning/notice when the drive is disabled/powered off in the modules panel.
There is a time late when powering it up again and with an additional warning when you do so you have the mechanic you need.
Disable the drive to submit, then communicate.

"Target has powered down Frame Shift Drive"
"Target has powered up Frame Shift Drive"

You could also have a final warning which warns that "Target Frame Shift Drive Ready"

Edit: Majinvash, I have no experience with pirating, so question is, would this work?

 

[dayrth]

I like the suggestions, but in the meanwhile try sending 'OK' then type the longer message.

 

[Derath]

I like the suggestions, but in the meanwhile try sending 'OK' then type the longer message.

This always worked with me, Yeah a couple of people abused it but by and large if they wanted to wait while they messed around with the UI I was good with that

 

[NeilF]

100 tonnes is the limit.

Even with 4 collection limpets, I have struggled to grab more than 80 before they expired.

Making them drop the whole amount if they fail to stop first request is a valid punishment.

Although we did make a T9 drop 300 in 100 amounts for 3 hungry condas and python once.

The cargo transfer is another issue... Might be another reason for my proposed docking mechanic! ie: The pirate docks to the victim, and the victim transfers the cargo over rather than all the throwing it into space antics - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=238907


In your example, the Anaconda could have docked to the T9 (victim), and had 300T given to it... and done! Victim leaves...

The other two ships could then have docked with the Anaconda then to take their 100T shares

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I like the suggestions, but in the meanwhile try sending 'OK' then type the longer message.

Fair point... But the pirate would undoubtable still be thinking the victim has typed "OK," and then just pressed the ESC key and is now just watching 15 seconds count down

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I can't rep you right now Neil but I would if I could as you were playing the game. Good pirates can provide good game play - bad pirates just give the entire game a bad rep.

 

[Majinvash]

Just like we have a warning when the targeted ship enables the Frame Shift Drive, there should be a warning/notice when the drive is disabled/powered off in the modules panel.
There is a time late when powering it up again and with an additional warning when you do so you have the mechanic you need.
Disable the drive to submit, then communicate.

"Target has powered down Frame Shift Drive"
"Target has powered up Frame Shift Drive"

You could also have a final warning which warns that "Target Frame Shift Drive Ready"

Edit: Majinvash, I have no experience with pirating, so question is, would this work?

Totally. Anything done to show the pirate they aren't going to run, usually results in a happy exchange.

The issue comes back to the current mechanic of submit - instant high wake.

The pirate has so little time to work out if the target is going to do an unstoppable run or combat log.
Less than 15 seconds if they log and about 25 second if they high wake. That we usually have to come out shooting.

As has been said, a simple "OK" is the best start and then keep still.

My current system is if they do not instantly stop on my hail.
Is to open fire, get through their shields and take out their thrusters or FSD, before they can high-wake.

This is currently the only way to pirate someone who doesn't want to be pirated. ( Most people )

https://www.youtube.com/user/dannyboi131313/videos

There are a few of videos on here of pirating going right

Many more of it going wrong via combat logs, lack of communication or high waking.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Gimi]

Totally. Anything done to show the pirate they aren't going to run, usually results in a happy exchange.

The issue comes back to the current mechanic of submit - instant high wake.
The pirate has so little time to work out if the target is going to do an unstoppable run or combat log.


Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I don't think we are going to solve combat logging here. However failures to communicate, which was what OP addressed in his first post should be possible to do something about.
If pirating is to have value for both parties, communication is key, even for us non native English speakers who might need a few more seconds to formulate something intelligible. Disabling your ability to jump out in a way that lets both parties know should open up for more interaction and even negotiations maybe.

Wonder how hard it would be for FDEV to implement something like this.

 

[Majinvash]

I don't think we are going to solve combat logging here. However failures to communicate, which was what OP addressed in his first post should be possible to do something about.
If pirating is to have value for both parties, communication is key, even for us non native English speakers who might need a few more seconds to formulate something intelligible. Disabling your ability to jump out in a way that lets both parties know should open up for more interaction and even negotiations maybe.

Wonder how hard it would be for FDEV to implement something like this.

When I very first started pirating, over a year ago now. I posted on this forum asking how you created in game speech binds.

I was surprised to hear this didn't exist. I have had to resort ever since to copy pasting and have a word file with all my hails.

There are 3rd party programs that can load up several communications and bind them to the number keys but it was fiddly to set-up, so never bothered.

A bunch of my Code brothers have first, second and third + hails. Getting more aggressive with each level.

I start strong and see what happens.

"You are being robbed, stop you engines and wait for further instructions. Run and you die. The Code"

I usually give them a second hail after I have dropped their shields if they are running, while at the same time trying to disable them.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Jaeger]

This is of course not a unique post. Many people have posted their suggestions to improve/tighten up piracy. I do hope something is planned... I want to see a logical and workable mechanic in action! It has to work for the TRADER --> PIRATE ---> BOUNTY HUNTER food chain to even stand a chance of working as it could/should.

Piracy is just a flawed concept. An interdiction mini-game followed by imba threat based bullying of the vulnerable. You've done well to pull the plug.

 

[Derath]

Piracy is just a flawed concept. An interdiction mini-game followed by imba threat based bullying of the vulnerable. You've done well to pull the plug.

mmmmmmmmmmm delicious

 

[Majinvash]

Piracy is just a flawed concept. An interdiction mini-game followed by imba threat based bullying of the vulnerable. You've done well to pull the plug.

Wooo wooo wooo

Thread derailment incoming
Due to injured pride of a PVE player woo woo woo

"We are talking about Open bra, Where all things are up to the choice of the players, stop trying to force your play style on us Bra"

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[lysan]

I don't understand why they can't just have a local direct communication channel, like in DayZ. You could have it so you can speak to, and hear people, within a 1000Ls (or whatever) radius of your ship. You would just need to assign a key for push to talk. Maybe it's something to do with the instancing that prevents them being able to do it?

I DayZ the rule is, if you don't talk you're dead, period!

 

[NeilF]

I don't understand why they can't just have a local direct communication channel, like in DayZ. You could have it so you can speak to, and hear people, within a 1000Ls (or whatever) radius of your ship. You would just need to assign a key for push to talk. Maybe it's something to do with the instancing that prevents them being able to do it?

A lot of folks don't have mics. Alot of folks don't want to hear 12yr olds insulting their lineage.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Not everyone can use this. Voice attack uses the windows provided voice recogntion software. I have a Dutch language version of windows, which does not support the windows provided voice recogntion software..... so I can't use voice Attack.

Sorry, missed the post.

Is there a list of FD condoned third party apps?
I've used some macro apps to run entire 80 man raids back in the days -when 64kbit/s was your *entire* bandwidth - and they do work like a charm for time critical communication, but I'd rather not recommend anything that's not in accordance with the EULA.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Sorry - as far as I know FD do not support 3rd party apps.

Basically you can use anthing you want to, but at your own risk.

 

[Deathwatch]

What might be an idea is that when someone does a 15 second log out a warning appears, similar to what you hear when someone goes to low wake or high wake ("surge detected")