In case you missed the latest interview with MB on Exploration

Ziljan

Ziljan
Yes, it's an exploration guide, and we are all quite knowledgable here, so why would we need this instruction on such a "simple" topic? Well it turns out here are some pretty cool things you may not have known about Michael Brooks and the work done on the Stellar Forge, and perhaps even more interesting, a few key updates on future enhancements of deep space exploration that will make things more "elite: dangerous" to say the least...

Some highlights:

-driving SRV = exploration rank increase, higher the the further you are from Sol (but slow/supplemental gains in any case, solves a pet theory of mine once and for all :D)
-exploration will become more risky in the future, including both natural and "unnatural" hazards. Shields recommended ;). And possibly weapons :eek::)[heart]:D!!!
-AFMU were supposed to have weight, but they don't, and probably never will, whoops, lol (always wondered about it)
-The purpose of distant permit sectors... Dun, dun, dun
-The infinite range of the ADS was a mistake, and made exploration "too easy" but it seems we're stuck with it [noob][blah]:O[redface][downcast]
-Michael Brookes researches astrophysical journals/papers for his basis of knowledge in shaping the stellar forge [heart][heart][heart]
-The population, distribution, and even the number of the stars is a direct result of a highly detailed initial mass function and an input initial mass for the Galaxy. Does not say if this mass included dark matter (?).
-the properties of a system are based on the mass, age, and location of the system in the Galaxy

[video=youtube_share;Gaoem7l1Qwg]http://youtu.be/Gaoem7l1Qwg[/video]



Personal observations: I think they could "fix" the ADS situation by making high powered discovery scanner pings detectable by Thargoids. So sure you can still get infinite range, but you may also draw some unwanted and rather deadly attention to yourself. Maybe also a good way to pick a fight in the black? Lol. Just one idea ;)
 
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Kuroshio

Kuroshio
Thanks for the summary! Shame on the AFMUs, though, I kept on hoping that they (and fuel scoops) would one day have mass. It would make exploration builds a lot more interesting.
 

Arubeto

Arubeto
Ziljan said:
-The infinite range of the ADS was a mistake, and made exploration "too easy" but it seems we're stuck with it [noob][blah]:O[redface][downcast]
Click to expand...

Yes, I was glad Michael at least acknowledged the addition of the ADS was a mistake, but it's unfortunate that they are to scared to fix this issue retroactively!

Come on, FDEV, you know the ADS is garbage, get rid of the thing and withstand the few complaints you might face, you should have a hard skin by now! ;)
 

JosiahD

JosiahD
Arubeto said:
Yes, I was glad Michael at least acknowledged the addition of the ADS was a mistake, but it's unfortunate that they are to scared to fix this issue retroactively!

Come on, FDEV, you know the ADS is garbage, get rid of the thing and withstand the few complaints you might face, you should have a hard skin by now! ;)
Click to expand...

Except it's not the addition of the ADS that was the mistake was it, just the range? All they need do is reduce the range to what it was intended to be - I assume it would have been something like 2500ls or 5000ls maybe.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
Repped for synopsis, as well as frequent and varied use of emoticons; you have complex emotions, Ziljan.

I'll be on my current exploration trip for a while, as I stop every 3000 or so lightyears and scan 20-30 systems almost fully (not moving (much) more than 2000 ls, unless curious or the bug strikes me, generally I only scan rocky moons if I'm there already and might as well) before moving on. This gives me little handfuls of not-too-biased exploration data to run statistics on. So I'm glad Brookes is basing Stellar Forge on actual astrophysics.

"Betsy", my Asp Explorer, is fully shielded and armed. Well, I did swap shield generator and fuel scoop slots, so the shields are mostly for running away purposes, and those slightly rough landings on high-g worlds. It might end up being interesting times if I get caught out there when the galaxy suddenly grows teeth after a major update. But at least I'm ready for it (I think).

Anyway, back to searching for carbon planets.

:D S
 
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LostLegend

LostLegend
Interesting stuff, cheers for the summary!

Really interested to see what dangers will lurk in the black in the future![woah]
 

Duckfather

Duckfather
I hope they don't make exploration more dangerous before we get back from DW. I'd at least like to be prepared for whatever the new danger(s) will be!

Apart from that, I'm all for it :)
 
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Mengy

Mengy
Good summary, thanks! [up]

I'm actually okay with the infinite ADS the way it is, the galaxy is so huge that I think an infinite range HORN is nice. [big grin]

I do agree thought that the AFMU should have mass to it, as should the fuel scoops, even if it's a small amount of mass. [heart]
 

Scoopy Doopy

Scoopy Doopy
I don't mind requiring shields but requiring weapons would be just plain annoying. Exploring is the only way of getting away from pew pew and enjoying the incredible work put into the ED galaxy. Aside from that, I struggle to understand how you could put anything in the black that could conceivably be in the same place as you in order to shoot at you. I haven't seen a system in 40000 LY that anybody has ever been to so the chances of anything shooty,turning up would seem a bit extreme.
 

Archvillain

Archvillain
Arubeto said:
Yes, I was glad Michael at least acknowledged the addition of the ADS was a mistake, but it's unfortunate that they are to scared to fix this issue retroactively!

Come on, FDEV, you know the ADS is garbage, get rid of the thing and withstand the few complaints you might face, you should have a hard skin by now! ;)
Click to expand...

I had no idea, but wow, I love the idea of "fixing" the ADS to have long - but not unlimited - range.
It would still do most of the work, but also leave room for nuance - you're not certain that everything is always instantly served up on a silver platter.
 
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Allitnil

Allitnil
I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets. Basically, it would just take out any body more than 100,000 Ls out of the game to the extent that it might as well not be there in the first place.

So building on that, I would have the basic, intermediate & advanced discovery scanners all be capable of showing every body in the system. The difference then would be how quickly they resolved the detail. Consider a ELW: the ADS might see it as a grey blob > 20,000 Ls, be able to identify it as at least a WW from 20,000 Ls and a ELW at 10,000 (you would still need to close on it to surface scan); the IDS would see a grey blob to 1,000 Ls and then at least a WW and as an ELW from 500 Ls; the BDS a grey blob to 500 Ls, at least a WW to 250 Ls and then an ELW.
 

SpaceMonkeyz

SpaceMonkeyz
Allitnil said:
I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets. Basically, it would just take out any body more than 100,000 Ls out of the game to the extent that it might as well not be there in the first place.

So building on that, I would have the basic, intermediate & advanced discovery scanners all be capable of showing every body in the system. The difference then would be how quickly they resolved the detail. Consider a ELW: the ADS might see it as a grey blob > 20,000 Ls, be able to identify it as at least a WW from 20,000 Ls and a ELW at 10,000 (you would still need to close on it to surface scan); the IDS would see a grey blob to 1,000 Ls and then at least a WW and as an ELW from 500 Ls; the BDS a grey blob to 500 Ls, at least a WW to 250 Ls and then an ELW.
Click to expand...

This idea is 65,244 kinds of awesome.
 

marx

marx
Arubeto said:
Yes, I was glad Michael at least acknowledged the addition of the ADS was a mistake, but it's unfortunate that they are to scared to fix this issue retroactively!

Come on, FDEV, you know the ADS is garbage, get rid of the thing and withstand the few complaints you might face, you should have a hard skin by now! ;)
Click to expand...
A good rule of the thumb for multiplayer game design: unless you really have to, don't take away something that the players had before. They aren't going to take it well.
In fact, if FD took away whole-system scans, I'd wager that a "few complaints" would be putting it mildly.
Anyway, I agree that the ADS had its mistakes, but I think that it's not just the infinite range, but that there's no choice between the three scanners, no trade-offs. For a simple fix that would be nice, I'd recommend decreasing the basic scanner's weight to 0.5T and the intermediate's to 1T. That way, there would be actually a reason to choose a lesser one, even if it would be only for maximizing your jump range.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
Honestly, I think they should lay down the foundation for ADS and AMFU fixes in 3.0 if they started making hints about it now.

Just flat out state "these features need to be fixed and will be in the next season" and mention that other features will be introduced to balance it out and make gameplay more dynamic.

For example, the ADS could still have infinite range, but only detect the existence of objects beyond, say, 50,000ls or whatever. Within that range it provides the same information now. Beyond that it simply shows shadows of relative mass (ie the objects as they are now but in shadow).

If they end up introducing micro jumps to get to different stars in the same system, this would at least make it so an explorer would go to each star to honk before moving to the next system.

To me it's a win-win. Yes you spend more time in a system, but you don't have to spend fifteen minutes getting to the next star just to see what's there. It's still just a honk system, but it feels a little more involved.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Allitnil said:
I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets. Basically, it would just take out any body more than 100,000 Ls out of the game to the extent that it might as well not be there in the first place.

So building on that, I would have the basic, intermediate & advanced discovery scanners all be capable of showing every body in the system. The difference then would be how quickly they resolved the detail. Consider a ELW: the ADS might see it as a grey blob > 20,000 Ls, be able to identify it as at least a WW from 20,000 Ls and a ELW at 10,000 (you would still need to close on it to surface scan); the IDS would see a grey blob to 1,000 Ls and then at least a WW and as an ELW from 500 Ls; the BDS a grey blob to 500 Ls, at least a WW to 250 Ls and then an ELW.
Click to expand...


Err... or this. This would work too ;)
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
Allitnil said:
I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets. Basically, it would just take out any body more than 100,000 Ls out of the game to the extent that it might as well not be there in the first place.

So building on that, I would have the basic, intermediate & advanced discovery scanners all be capable of showing every body in the system. The difference then would be how quickly they resolved the detail. Consider a ELW: the ADS might see it as a grey blob > 20,000 Ls, be able to identify it as at least a WW from 20,000 Ls and a ELW at 10,000 (you would still need to close on it to surface scan); the IDS would see a grey blob to 1,000 Ls and then at least a WW and as an ELW from 500 Ls; the BDS a grey blob to 500 Ls, at least a WW to 250 Ls and then an ELW.
Click to expand...

Such a great idea, it deserves its own thread. Would hate to see it buried in a semi-relevant post where the devs might miss it. ;)

Be sure to post a link here if you do make another thread, that way we can all upvote it !
 
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afreeflyingsoul

afreeflyingsoul
Arubeto said:
Yes, I was glad Michael at least acknowledged the addition of the ADS was a mistake, but it's unfortunate that they are to scared to fix this issue retroactively!

Come on, FDEV, you know the ADS is garbage, get rid of the thing and withstand the few complaints you might face, you should have a hard skin by now! ;)
Click to expand...

Well, if you're going to start quibbling about the range of the ADS, then what about the fact that we can see stuff behind us when traveling faster than light? Or how about the fact that any scan would take the double number of seconds of its scan range.

A basic scan would take nearly 10 mins and an intermediate scan would take more than 15 mins. To scan a system with another star 400,000 ls away, you realize, would take more than four and a half days, right? Given the impossible nature of the scanning mechanic to begin with, the idea of an (quasi)infinite range system scan is pretty reasonable.

What is unreasonable is the fact that I can't turn of the d*mn interior lights of my Asp and some dim-wit put two bright bar lights on the A-pillars. Just shining in my face day in, day out. That's ridiculous.

And for those that didn't figure out why I put the prefix on infinite: the scan only works on one system...
 

afreeflyingsoul

afreeflyingsoul
Allitnil said:
I think the best option for ADS is for it to identify that there is *something* there but for it to only provide more information as you approach it. If, for instance, it had a fixed range of 100,000 Ls then the chances of anything more remote than that ever being discovered becomes incredibly unlikely. Hardly anyone is going to bother trying to detect such remote stars by parallax and then take the time to fly toward them in the hope that there might be worthwhile planets. Basically, it would just take out any body more than 100,000 Ls out of the game to the extent that it might as well not be there in the first place.

So building on that, I would have the basic, intermediate & advanced discovery scanners all be capable of showing every body in the system. The difference then would be how quickly they resolved the detail. Consider a ELW: the ADS might see it as a grey blob > 20,000 Ls, be able to identify it as at least a WW from 20,000 Ls and a ELW at 10,000 (you would still need to close on it to surface scan); the IDS would see a grey blob to 1,000 Ls and then at least a WW and as an ELW from 500 Ls; the BDS a grey blob to 500 Ls, at least a WW to 250 Ls and then an ELW.
Click to expand...

I likes the way you think! Though, rather than fixed distances, I'd like to see the nature of the object being scanned come into play. A gas giant that is approaching a brown dwarf would be emitting quite a lot of radiation that would aid in characterizing it, thus be scannable from much further away than, say, an icy body in an Oort cloud.
 
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