the station bandit last night

[Adept]

It is absolutely essential this type of 'Eve like Goonswarming' on a choke point be put down.

Eve has been an interesting social experiment, but unfortunately it has also "legitimised" truly bad behavior in the minds of some people.

The people ganking others for lols because they can, because they feel "entitled", because "they arwn't testing but playing the game"... These are the archtypical griefers. The ugly face of PvP. The three ganging up on an unsuspecting player coming to dock weren't after something to challenge their skills. They were out for the "joy" of pulling the legs off a frog or burning ants with a magnifying glass.

Sadly it has been amply demonstrated that there needs to be very strong preventative measures in the game, or this subset of players will ruin the testing and the game itself to as many people as they can. It is selfish, destructive behavior, but it's common enough to be a problem.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

'Eve' like behavior on the part of some players is most disturbing and should be acted upon by FD immediately!

I have three things to say to this:

1. By testing the alpha this means you signed to potentially be attacked at anytime. There is no single player phase just yet. It's all multi-player.
2. Frontier have public said in the forums the other week "Anything goes"...this was in response to a thread like this.
3. Would you rather this happened now, when it "doesn't really matter", and therefore Frontier have amply time to sort it out?...or would you rather everyone was nice as pie during Alpha and only when the game gets released and dying actually means something do people think "this should have been sorted in alpha!!!"...I know what I would prefer

.
I'm not defending what some people are doing with their station ganking and spawn camping and I can see how it can frustrate people...I've been on the end of it, but I just laugh.
Can I just point out again that Frontier publicly stated "Anything goes".

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

And although I'm not responsible for your treatment in this game, this 'Eve' like behavior on the part of some players is most disturbing and should be acted upon by FD immediately!

In release I fully expect players to group up and "gank" unsuspecting players - now they shouldn't destroy said victim in order to further their piracy rating, but even if they just blow up the player it's still going to happen.

Are you suggesting that unfair fights (3v1) be somehow prevented ?

He was attempting to do his part in testing the game and prevented from doing so. This was absolutely 'griefing'! For multiplayer to survive in this game this behavior can.not be accepted...

Having an agenda of your own (a test) is no guarantee nor implies a right of any kind within the alpha.

I am fairly sure that he was picked on, yes, as a target whilst trying to dock - it happened and the station defences were either inadequate, of too short a range, or we're simply missing. Screaming that the world is about to end is rather dramatic ... It's an Alpha - the Devs have said (and I repeat myself here) "anything goes" which means if pilots want to gank and grief others .. Let them. Report it via the ticket system and leave it for FD to deal with.

Regardless of whether you see this as 'griefing' or 'inconveniencing', the Alpha (at least the current version) is not the place for it. The only time it should be acceptable is if the test is consensual. Attacking somebody who hasn't agreed

Snip

There's definitely a place for testing that (e.g.) station defences aren't working. But once you've verified it, report it and move on. If you need help testing, use the forum to recruit -- there are plenty who are willing to help out.

Alpha is one of the best times for testing of grief measures - the game isn't too far developed and it's far easier to make changes now when the code and process is still rough round the edges than at the end when the polish is being added.

Not everyone reads the forums by the way - we have a similar problem in the DDF where the same few voices chime in but there are over 500 eligible people who could post but don't

Sorry but three people (who seem to be able to communicate with each other) camping the only station available, is without a doubt, greafing.

Claims that they are 'testing' - Utter . If they want to test something, one of them should roleplay the victim and the others the Pirates.

Claims that they are highlighting greafing for fixing purposes - More , again, one of them should play the victim, then open a bug report and explain what they were able to do.

How would you know - did you ask them ?

3 people choke pointing the only station is to me quite smart as up until that point none of us knew that was possible now how the game would react. (How the players would react comes as no surprise)

Eve has been an interesting social experiment, but unfortunately it has also "legitimised" truly bad behavior in the minds of some people..

The only thing you can really say about this is that the game either has far too strong a reaction and/or missing code. For example : killing a player nets you the same bounty as killing an NPC and yet during the DDF it was agreed that the bounty would be higher - that part is missing / wrong. It was also agreed upon that really bad players would find the police / navy coming after them - that is also missing or the thresholds are wrong. Don't overreact to the situation because it's Alpha and, once again, the Devs have said "now is the time for anything goes"

I have three things to say to this:

1. By testing the alpha this means you signed to potentially be attacked at anytime. There is no single player phase just yet. It's all multi-player.
2. Frontier have public said in the forums the other week "Anything goes"...this was in response to a thread like this.
3. Would you rather this happened now, when it "doesn't really matter", and therefore Frontier have amply time to sort it out?...or would you rather everyone was nice as pie during Alpha and only when the game gets released and dying actually means something do people think "this should have been sorted in alpha!!!"...I know what I would prefer

.
I'm not defending what some people are doing with their station ganking and spawn camping and I can see how it can frustrate people...I've been on the end of it, but I just laugh.
Can I just point out again that Frontier publicly stated "Anything goes".

Exactly - perfect understanding of the scenario.

 

[xyphic]

Alpha is one of the best times for testing of grief measures - the game isn't too far developed and it's far easier to make changes now when the code and process is still rough round the edges than at the end when the polish is being added.

I don't think I got my point across very well. Of course, testing out griefing measures in Alpha is entirely valid. However, the measures present in the current Alpha are so minimal that there is effectively nothing to test! Clearly in the final game, sitting outside a station in a safe system firing on anyone getting close is going to elicit a response. "Testing" that this doesn't happen in the current Alpha is beyond pointless after the first go, as it's obvious that it isn't implemented yet. So anyone who continues this type of behaviour is testing nothing but the patience of the other testers.

Not everyone reads the forums by the way - we have a similar problem in the DDF where the same few voices chime in but there are over 500 eligible people who could post but don't

That's true. I think that FD should have made more of an effort to direct *everyone* testing the game to the forums, and indeed should *not* have said that "anything goes" because it's fundamentally detrimental to the testing process (at this stage).

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I don't think I got my point across very well. Of course, testing out griefing measures in Alpha is entirely valid. However, the measures present in the current Alpha are so minimal that there is effectively nothing to test! Clearly in the final game, sitting outside a station in a safe system firing on anyone getting close is going to elicit a response. "Testing" that this doesn't happen in the current Alpha is beyond pointless after the first go, as it's obvious that it isn't implemented yet. So anyone who continues this type of behaviour is testing nothing but the patience of the other testers.


That's true. I think that FD should have made more of an effort to direct *everyone* testing the game to the forums, and indeed should *not* have said that "anything goes" because it's fundamentally detrimental to the testing process (at this stage).

I agree on the last part - it's radical for sure, but it's FDs baby so ...

The first part - well, how do you know if you don't test it ? And once tested unless you read the forums how would a new player know not to test it again ?

In short - things are going to happen in the Alpha that you don't like. Ticket it and move on.

 

[xyphic]

The first part - well, how do you know if you don't test it ? And once tested unless you read the forums how would a new player know not to test it again ?

You don't, which is why once you've tested you should move on. I get the impression that the majority of complaints aren't that they've been killed once by one player, but that there are sometimes players or groups killing other players indiscriminately (e.g. the widely publicised 'quarantine' event which did nothing to further testing of the game, regardless of what was claimed).

In short - things are going to happen in the Alpha that you don't like. Ticket it and move on.

That's fine as long as the other party moves on too!

 

[GeordieMarv]

Wow! Lots of tears in this thread.
It's a game, and anything goes. Unfortunately life isn't fair!

 

[Adept]

Wow! Lots of tears in this thread.
It's a game, and anything goes. Unfortunately life isn't fair!

Spoken like a goon. Not a compliment to anybody over 14.

 

[GeordieMarv]

Spoken like a goon. Not a compliment to anybody over 14.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am.

 

[Theaghan Black]

I don't think I got my point across very well. Of course, testing out griefing measures in Alpha is entirely valid. However, the measures present in the current Alpha are so minimal that there is effectively nothing to test! Clearly in the final game, sitting outside a station in a safe system firing on anyone getting close is going to elicit a response. "Testing" that this doesn't happen in the current Alpha is beyond pointless after the first go, as it's obvious that it isn't implemented yet. So anyone who continues this type of behaviour is testing nothing but the patience of the other testers.

Exactly.

I'm a backer but not in Alpha: can I ask if Alpha users are provided with a change log after every patch?

By this they could know if a feature is already implemented or not: in this case we should talk about AI efficiency in guarding the station or any mechanism developed to limit griefing.

If at least one of these feature is coded in the current game's version, then this 3v1 is useful to test it and none should complain until the bug is confirmed.

But if it's clear that this behaviour is not going to be limited by any features, I really can't understand how a player could have fun in doing that. Personally I put griefers on the same level with cheaters and exploiters: I feel sorry for these human beings as they must have a sad real life.

 

[PacalB]

Wow! Lots of tears in this thread.
It's a game, and anything goes. Unfortunately life isn't fair!

Well then, "if anything goes" I propose a daily TS station gank killing session! Groups who just sit at the station in packs and kill every single thing that moves in our out. Shut down the whole station mechanic down completely, I mean anything goes, right? So why not? One rule ... kill everything and everyone not in your group. I'm sure this will make for a great experience with lots of lolz all round.

Anyone here knows of the beautiful gank feasts at lowsec and nullsec gates in EVE? Well, if theres no real station defenses then we are free to gank and kill everything that moves! Once enough bounties are made just swap out ships for a cheapo basic Sidewinder and pop your mate for the uber bounty! Not only do you get to screw the game for lulz, you get great creds for doing it as well! Double bonus points that!

Sounds like EVE station camping! Oh yeah!

Better still, the group of station gankers that can get the highest kill rate and bounties before popping each other for the creds get honour rights to gloat about it on the forum here for uber infamy! Screen shots please! lolz and suffering is the name of the game! Anything goes! Be part of it or be a victim within it.

Bring Zelda to a complete stop!

Also, once there are enough groups teams to gank out Zelda, bring the other areas to a ganked out full stop as well. No one in your TS group in the area dies but ... Kill Everything Else!

And remember ... Anything goes!

 

[Sir.Tj]

Exactly.

I'm a backer but not in Alpha: can I ask if Alpha users are provided with a change log after every patch?

By this they could know if a feature is already implemented or not: in this case we should talk about AI efficiency in guarding the station or any mechanism developed to limit griefing.

If at least one of these feature is coded in the current game's version, then this 3v1 is useful to test it and none should complain until the bug is confirmed.

But if it's clear that this behaviour is not going to be limited by any features, I really can't understand how a player could have fun in doing that. Personally I put griefers on the same level with cheaters and exploiters: I feel sorry for these players as they must have a sad real life.

The Developers log give out most of the info generated by the Developers when the post information like changelogs.

Developers Log


Also, can we remember that everyone does have the right to a opinion and to keep it friendly.

 

[GeordieMarv]

Well then, "if anything goes" I propose a daily TS station gank killing session! Groups who just sit at the station in packs and kill every single thing that moves in our out. Shut down the whole station mechanic down completely, I mean anything goes, right? So why not? One rule ... kill everything and everyone not in your group. I'm sure this will make for a great experience with lots of lolz all round.

Anyone here knows of the beautiful gank feasts at lowsec and nullsec gates in EVE? Well, if theres no real station defenses then we are free to gank and kill everything that moves! Once enough bounties are made just swap out ships for a cheapo basic Sidewinder and pop your mate for the uber bounty! Not only do you get to screw the game for lulz, you get great creds for doing it as well! Double bonus points that!

Sounds like EVE station camping! Oh yeah!

Better still, the group of station gankers that can get the highest kill rate and bounties before popping each other for the creds get honour rights to gloat about it on the forum here for uber infamy! Screen shots please! lolz and suffering is the name of the game! Anything goes! Be part of it or be a victim within it.

Bring Zelda to a complete stop!

Also, once there are enough groups teams to gank out Zelda, bring the other areas to a ganked out full stop as well. No one in your TS group in the area dies but ... Kill Everything Else!

And remember ... Anything goes!

You seem angry?

OK I can appreciate that it's frustrating to be griefed over and over and over again. I don't have access to the alpha (just premium beta), so I can't really comment on how bad it is currently.

But it's down to FD to get the balance right, with adequate station defences etc? I'm not defending it at all. I'm just looking at it from another perspective.

People should be free to play the game how they want. As long as they are not cheating/exploiting. Being killed in Elite is part and parcel of that in my honest opinion. Personally I would just laugh if this happened to me. I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as some of you do.

 

[PacalB]

You seem angry?

OK I can appreciate that it's frustrating to be griefed over and over and over again. I don't have access to the alpha (just premium beta), so I can't really comment on how bad it is currently.

But it's down to FD to get the balance right, with adequate station defences etc? I'm not defending it at all. I'm just looking at it from another perspective.

People should be free to play the game how they want. As long as they are not cheating/exploiting. Being killed in Elite is part and parcel of that in my honest opinion. Personally I would just laugh if this happened to me. I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as some of you do.

Glad you put a question mark in there cause I'm not angry at all. :smilie: We have had a station camp go on in the past that Gen-Han-Solo setup, I believe. The suggestion there is not out of anger, its out of natural progression of things and to "spread the love" around so to speak. What better way to do that than to have a rolling ganking session going on? Lolz, love and pain everyone gets to experience!

 

[gazzareth]

Glad you put a question mark in there cause I'm not angry at all. :smilie: We have had a station camp go on in the past that Gen-Han-Solo setup, I believe. The suggestion there is not out of anger, its out of natural progression of things and to "spread the love" around so to speak. What better way to do that than to have a rolling ganking session going on? Lolz, love and pain everyone gets to experience!

You just trying to create some business there Commander Balan?

G

 

[PacalB]

You just trying to create some business there Commander Balan?

G

Hey, I'm an entrepreneur? what can I say?

 

[Deathwatch]

Once station stuff gets ramped up more im sure certain stations will have better defence grids etc.

So players firing on other players next to a station should find themselves quickly turned to ash.

Maybe stations could have a massive EMP gun that would disable there ships so they get captured ?

 

[martin779]

Personally I disagree with the principle of ganking..gaming should be challenging to the individual, shooting up someone who's weaponless and at a standstill is not much different to pulling the legs off flies.

I have had one idea (although probably not original) which is to offer NPC wing men a fixed fee or % of your trade run profit for protection along the way. It wouldn't work for human mercs as that would just lead to protection racketeering!

You would purchase your cargo and then commit to a % cut of the profit when that cargo is sold. You would also have to sell the cargo within a number of successful docks to prevent holding on to your protection unfairly.

Just an idea, I'm sure it's full of holes but there you go

To OP, hope your wife improves. Been there myself, sending you both all the best.

And just to add another point, I would expect a response from the system authorities to be proportionate to the status of the system. Fighting around a lawless system should be par for the course...be prepared to shoot into the station dock with your afterburners lit (I did try that actually, it's not too scary, although I did accidentally hit the wrong button when chasing a cargo pod doing laps around the interior of the station and mashed myself against the wall!)

However, pick a fight with someone who's "clean" in a more orderly system, I'd expect a big 'ol beam cannon to tear the protagonist a new one.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Well then, "if anything goes" I propose a daily TS station gank killing session! Groups who just sit at the station in packs and kill every single thing that moves in our out. Shut down the whole station mechanic down completely, I mean anything goes, right? So why not? One rule ... kill everything and everyone not in your group. I'm sure this will make for a great experience with lots of lolz all round.

Anyone here knows of the beautiful gank feasts at lowsec and nullsec gates in EVE? Well, if theres no real station defenses then we are free to gank and kill everything that moves! Once enough bounties are made just swap out ships for a cheapo basic Sidewinder and pop your mate for the uber bounty! Not only do you get to screw the game for lulz, you get great creds for doing it as well! Double bonus points that!

Sounds like EVE station camping! Oh yeah!

Better still, the group of station gankers that can get the highest kill rate and bounties before popping each other for the creds get honour rights to gloat about it on the forum here for uber infamy! Screen shots please! lolz and suffering is the name of the game! Anything goes! Be part of it or be a victim within it.

Bring Zelda to a complete stop!

Also, once there are enough groups teams to gank out Zelda, bring the other areas to a ganked out full stop as well. No one in your TS group in the area dies but ... Kill Everything Else!

And remember ... Anything goes!

Glad you finally came round to seeing things the way the Devs do - in Alpha it is indeed "anything" goes so they can (presumably) learn what can happen and start to deal with it in Beta.

 

[PacalB]

Glad you finally came round to seeing things the way the Devs do - in Alpha it is indeed "anything" goes so they can (presumably) learn what can happen and start to deal with it in Beta.

Indeed, which is why the ganking session above needs to be done. It's gong to happen sooner or later, and to tell you the truth I can think of some positively evil ways of upsetting the apple cart. Better now than later as you say.