Is it just 'grinders' who feel the game lacks depth?

[Lheim]

Meh. When people talk about depth, they're talking about game systems, not storyline or goals to grind for.

The outfitting in this game, the differences in ship performance - those things are deep. You see endless discussion about the merits or disadvantages of different ships in this game, and endless variety of possible outfitting goals for each type of ship, and people having different preferences for different flight characteristics - these things are indicative of depth. There's a kind of 'apples vs. oranges' difficulty in quantifying how ships perform, and that's a marvelous thing.

If we had more 'play' and choice and endless debatability about the best way to go about influencing the bgs, or which factions to support and how to go about getting reputation with them, or how to go about trading most effectively, then we could talk about depth overall.

I sincerely hope crafting offers more debate-driving 'apples vs. oranges' options for equipment.

 

[who?]

what a load of buried in some logic.

yes your definition of width and depth is cool. but what are you even talking about? you explore a system, you now have information. what can be mined. what can be landed on. you can go deeper and find out what a landable planet holds for synthesis materials. you can go to ring worlds and find haz res sites or stuff to mine. you can could discover something rare on the market place or a new trade route to make money doing trading. you can find combat zones and choose a minor faction to help control a system which affects what on the marketplace and what kind of missions you get.

Like, what mmo are you comparing elite to or are you just lies? because everything you said is pretty weak man

I'm happy to explain what I mean, though from your post above I'm not sure you're interested in a reasoned argument.

Take exploration. If you want to find all bodies in a system, you jump to it, press a button for a few seconds and they all appear in your System Map / Nav view. That's it. There's no challenge, no variety, no need to make any decisions or use any skills. Press a button, job done.

How could it be done differently?
- Perhaps when the "honk" fires, you get a chorus of echoes back, with different echoes for different planet types and the delay is proportional to the distance from your ship. Then you'd have to use your skill to recognise the sounds of the planets you're looking for.

- Or perhaps instead of the honk, you have a gravitational scanner that shows distortions caused by the planets. Once you find a distortion you could switch between EM spectra or switch to different sensors based on the planet type / size of the distortion.

- As it stands, outfitting for exploration means carrying an ADS and DSS. Always. It'd be more interesting if you could outfit for different roles, so fit sensors for scanning gas giants would earn you more money from those, but less from other planets. Then when scanning the system you'd be proactively searching for gas giants. The more specialised the scanner, the greater the reward for those planet types.

- Exploration/surveying missions could help a lot. "Sirius Manufacturing needs an Ammonia World with a gravity of 0.5-0.7G for optimised operating conditions", and now your exploring has a purpose. Find a rare planet like that and you get mega-rich.

Planet scanning is no better. Target planet, point your nose at it, job done. Again, no skill, no variety, no challenge.

I do like the SRV and Wave Scanner a lot. Stumble across a POI, find a good landing spot in rough terrain, deploy the Wave Scanner and use your ears and eyes to detect and identify the different types of target. The biggest problem is that there's nothing very useful to find.

If they could add something like the Wave Scanner to the ship, it would be a huge improvement. The HUD does show you your heat signature, perhaps we could have scanner that displayed the heat signatures of other ships (with each ship type having a unique signature). So instead of a "Strong Signal Source" popping up on your screen, you'd see a "Signal Source" and have to use your eyes to identify the ships in it by recognising their heat signatures.

 

[Ignition]

I'm happy to explain what I mean, though from your post above I'm not sure you're interested in a reasoned argument.

Take exploration. If you want to find all bodies in a system, you jump to it, press a button for a few seconds and they all appear in your System Map / Nav view. That's it. There's no challenge, no variety, no need to make any decisions or use any skills. Press a button, job done.

How could it be done differently?
- Perhaps when the "honk" fires, you get a chorus of echoes back, with different echoes for different planet types and the delay is proportional to the distance from your ship. Then you'd have to use your skill to recognise the sounds of the planets you're looking for.

- Or perhaps instead of the honk, you have a gravitational scanner that shows distortions caused by the planets. Once you find a distortion you could switch between EM spectra or switch to different sensors based on the planet type / size of the distortion.

- As it stands, outfitting for exploration means carrying an ADS and DSS. Always. It'd be more interesting if you could outfit for different roles, so fit sensors for scanning gas giants would earn you more money from those, but less from other planets. Then when scanning the system you'd be proactively searching for gas giants. The more specialised the scanner, the greater the reward for those planet types.

- Exploration/surveying missions could help a lot. "Sirius Manufacturing needs an Ammonia World with a gravity of 0.5-0.7G for optimised operating conditions", and now your exploring has a purpose. Find a rare planet like that and you get mega-rich.

Planet scanning is no better. Target planet, point your nose at it, job done. Again, no skill, no variety, no challenge.

I do like the SRV and Wave Scanner a lot. Stumble across a POI, find a good landing spot in rough terrain, deploy the Wave Scanner and use your ears and eyes to detect and identify the different types of target. The biggest problem is that there's nothing very useful to find.

If they could add something like the Wave Scanner to the ship, it would be a huge improvement. The HUD does show you your heat signature, perhaps we could have scanner that displayed the heat signatures of other ships (with each ship type having a unique signature). So instead of a "Strong Signal Source" popping up on your screen, you'd see a "Signal Source" and have to use your eyes to identify the ships in it by recognising their heat signatures.

People don't understand what gameplay elements, rules, systems and tools are, they are very busy using their imagination to fill the void. They will always find a cliff on a small hole and are happy with that.

If you didn't, go read the DDA about exploration, it was AMAZING, with heat signatures and probes, misjump, and a galaxy map which is hidden until someone find the new systems.

I agree with you, this game needs tons of more gameplay and replayability.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

I'm happy to explain what I mean, though from your post above I'm not sure you're interested in a reasoned argument.

Take exploration. If you want to find all bodies in a system, you jump to it, press a button for a few seconds and they all appear in your System Map / Nav view. That's it. There's no challenge, no variety, no need to make any decisions or use any skills. Press a button, job done.

How could it be done differently?
- Perhaps when the "honk" fires, you get a chorus of echoes back, with different echoes for different planet types and the delay is proportional to the distance from your ship. Then you'd have to use your skill to recognise the sounds of the planets you're looking for.

- Or perhaps instead of the honk, you have a gravitational scanner that shows distortions caused by the planets. Once you find a distortion you could switch between EM spectra or switch to different sensors based on the planet type / size of the distortion.

- As it stands, outfitting for exploration means carrying an ADS and DSS. Always. It'd be more interesting if you could outfit for different roles, so fit sensors for scanning gas giants would earn you more money from those, but less from other planets. Then when scanning the system you'd be proactively searching for gas giants. The more specialised the scanner, the greater the reward for those planet types.

- Exploration/surveying missions could help a lot. "Sirius Manufacturing needs an Ammonia World with a gravity of 0.5-0.7G for optimised operating conditions", and now your exploring has a purpose. Find a rare planet like that and you get mega-rich.

Planet scanning is no better. Target planet, point your nose at it, job done. Again, no skill, no variety, no challenge.

I do like the SRV and Wave Scanner a lot. Stumble across a POI, find a good landing spot in rough terrain, deploy the Wave Scanner and use your ears and eyes to detect and identify the different types of target. The biggest problem is that there's nothing very useful to find.

If they could add something like the Wave Scanner to the ship, it would be a huge improvement. The HUD does show you your heat signature, perhaps we could have scanner that displayed the heat signatures of other ships (with each ship type having a unique signature). So instead of a "Strong Signal Source" popping up on your screen, you'd see a "Signal Source" and have to use your eyes to identify the ships in it by recognising their heat signatures.

Actually i think a dev once said that this "echo" is really how you described it. you honk and based on the distance and type of object the signal has a delay and sounds different.
personally when it comes to scanning i like "triangulation", Eve had a pretty nice system for that (send out drones and focus them on a signal), but i think it wouldnt fit for Elite. So a combination of triangulation and the srv wave scanner could be interesting, honk to get the signals, follow the waves to find them then. planetary scanning could be based on what you see, so you would need to fly around the planet to fully scan its surface (topography scanner maybe?)
but yeah...just honk to scan a full system is kinda boring

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the game still feels like an alpha or early release (or whatever thy call it nowadays). It lacks basic functionality that I would expect from a game I've spent $120 on so far.

Stuff line bookmarks, manual route plotting, a better mission system... This is the kind of stuff I'd expect at release, not years down the road. I think it's fair in 2014 (when it was released) for a space sim to at least have the functions of a GPS.

When horizons released, I was surprised that we don't have the ability to mark coordinates on planets so we can easily find landmarks or sites (like the barnacles). It just seems like it should have been a no brained to put that in with something like planetary landings.

Every system is identical. Every faction has the same type of stations. System security is a joke. Aligning with a faction really means nothing, as you can be max rank with both Empire and Federation. Fly your Imperial Cutter, which obviously means you're high ranking in the Empire, into a Federation star port without any issue. Even if you're high enough to have a Corvette.

The game still very much feels like a skeleton. There's no rhyme or reason to anything, and logic doesn't seem to be factored in at all. It's hard to see where they're coming from, and where they want it to go.

I have a lot of fun playing. Mainly because I just enjoy flying with my HOTAS. It might not actually be the game itself. It's just the closest thing to an mmo that I can my expensive CH setup with. I enjoy co-op gameplay.

It seriously needs these issues addressed to keep me interested for long. I don't think I'll be buying season 3 unless it looks like that is happening, but we'll see how 2.1 goes.

 

[The Dutch]

I see it like this... the developers gave us a huge sandbox to play in. But it is up to the players what they make of it. Sure, you can set a goal and trying to get one of the big ships. Fastest way to get there is grinding those shadow trading missions.... But as some already said, you can make the way to these ships much more interesting.

One of the things I like about MMO's is building a community. I have done this in other games with thousands of players. The fun thing in this game is that you can have a relatively small group to make a difference in a system or a small region. If you enjoy these kind of things you should join a player based minor faction. There are several player groups who take the role playing game withing ED to another level creating whole stories and things like community goals.

Why not join the fight against the NPC factions/groups and return to the boring stuff when you ready for it again...

We just got word that our little group is accepted as a minor faction and I am really looking forward to implementation of this and becoming part of the BGS.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Yeah, it lacks depth and complexity in a lot of areas. Missions/BGS/trading still feel like placeholders. Ship outfitting is dull (linear E -> A progression) and too many ships aren't worth buying. Every activity gets tedious as you rank up or try and save for something big and shiny because you have to do so much of it, and there's not a lot to each one outside of endless repetition. Less grind + better rewards + higher difficulty/more variety? That'd be great. Is it going to happen? I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe it's a limitation of the procedural galaxy.

I still play, I still enjoy looking at space and wandering about, but I don't kid myself I'm playing some rare gem of game design anymore. Maybe one day when the whole vision is up and running, but not right now.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

I see it like this... the developers gave us a huge sandbox to play in. But it is up to the players what they make of it. Sure, you can set a goal and trying to get one of the big ships. Fastest way to get there is grinding those shadow trading missions.... But as some already said, you can make the way to these ships much more interesting.

One of the things I like about MMO's is building a community. I have done this in other games with thousands of players. The fun thing in this game is that you can have a relatively small group to make a difference in a system or a small region. If you enjoy these kind of things you should join a player based minor faction. There are several player groups who take the role playing game withing ED to another level creating whole stories and things like community goals.

Why not join the fight against the NPC factions/groups and return to the boring stuff when you ready for it again...

We just got word that our little group is accepted as a minor faction and I am really looking forward to implementation of this and becoming part of the BGS.

the problem that i have with the term "sandbox" is, that we have no sandbox here. we have a box without sand.
take a look at some other "sandbox" games,
Minecraft is a Sandbox where you are given blocks to be creative, to build what you want.
Eve Online is a Sandbox with player driven economy and markets, player owned systems and stations.
Tree of Life is a Sandbox game where you build your own village, trade with other players, or just attack them.

But Elite is just a box without the sand, because you cant really affect anything, atleast not alone. You cant buy out a market because once you get back or switch the instance the market is refilled, even without ships that restock it.
you cant wipe out a whole RES, the ships just respawn.
you cant produce things that you then deliver to other stations and players. The only "sandbox" thing in this part would be Mining, but even there is no diversity because painite is always the best material to get, and pristine metallic will always be the best belt (until they rework mining someday), but not even with those ores you can affect the market. The station could be dieing from hunger, they would still pay a lot for painite and alsmost nothing for food. I mean...normaly the three big Ps should be worthless by now, because nothing else is mined and sold. The market should adapt to the insane amount and reduce the value of them, while other materials increase

You are more or less sitting in the box watching others (the background sim) play with the sand, but you are to to understand what they do (because you cant see what exactly happens, not meant as an insult, just as a metaphor)

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Pretty much how I predicted the thread would go in my initial post. Easy to predict when every similar thread has gone the same way. However, Soliluna is my refuge in this one, he/she really gets it. While our lack of enjoyment stems from "lack of imagination" I can easily, (and have), said that those getting supreme and extended enjoyment out of it are merely easily entertained, it's just an opinion after all. In either case, the argument doesn't end and we get nowhere. So really, what are we doing? We aren't going to change each others minds. Its up to FDev to change my mind, your mind and Soliluna's mind about the game.

For my last lap around Lake Insanity, I'll go with this: Joe Forum isn't going to convince people like us who have hundreds and probably thousands of hours in game that there is some grand experience to be had in the game that we just haven't seen yet because we are blind to it somehow. I've seen all of it and it isn't good enough. Done.

The game just needs to add more logic to make the game more immersive.

Look at all the states the minor factions can have, yet hardly do they change what happens. In best case when people starve you get food donation missions and maybe a barge flying around "buying" food.

But there should be more like more piracy happening on ships carrying food, because in a starving systems the blackmarket for stolen food would boom.
It is the way how the games own universe displays these changes that make it seems, no one ingame cares, why should even the player care. When they urgently need wepaons and fly around calling "we buy wepaons" why is the price not significantly showing this? Instead the deals are pretty "meh". And then, even when bringing and selling weapons, it hardly matters or affects the BGS nor your official displayed standing towards these minor factions. Nothing really matters or cares by the given gameplay mechanics. And so the player hardly cares as well. I can go to a combat zone here or there, can stay one hour or 10, but the universe won't matter or care much. And this is a problem, because what is the point of doing this if the impact is so low that it does not matter? Causing Millions of loss in military assets for another minor faction should definately and heavily affect their behavior towards me, and also should the minor factions ones I was fighting for. But this is entirely missing in both the good and bad effects it has. I mean I can accidently hit another pilot and will instantly get a fee. But then shooting down 100 opponent ships seems to not care anyone. Hows that by ingame logic explainable? It needs some very illogical and twisted imagination to make this a "working" universe. And thats what I call unimmersive.
Same with system authorities. If you have shadow missions or illegal cargo they regulary (actiually constantly, because mission triggered) come and interdict you and scan you. Makes sense, is logically. But why do I NEVER get a regular checkup when flying around empty? Is some magic telling them I am empty and not scan worthy? For a proper believable immersion, occosional Authority scans should happen even if you are empty. And a lot more should happen to you when you have been caught repeatedely with illegal cargo. But scanning only happens when you are entering a station. It creates an unbelievable environment, because it's not consistent.

The Elite universe need sto be way more consistent in its behavior and act more reactive towards specific player actions.

hi, the person you insulted here, guess you wanted some clarity or something on my "pvp" skills and this is actually a thread that is pretty on topic about this, kind of?

In the other thread I was talking about analysis work, i am the analyst for the Elite PvP League in Elite Dangerous, i think this game has great depth if your spade is sharp enough.

However, every match in the EPL is the same thing over and over, people using rail guns and then on their off time sitting at the barnacles grinding materials and robigo missions for their next match.
In some of the balance changes to this game make it quite the grind for certain things. Theres no balance in ways to make money or get materials, it's just robigo and barnacles, nothing other than that. There should at least be some variety in ways to make money.

Overall, nah, i dont think this game is shallow, we can make our own content, like a PvP league. But to keep it up, it does require a huge grind of resources in the off.

yes this is one of the points too, FD should analyse the income/effort ratios and true "risk" ratios. And redistribute a few prices, missions rewards or mechanics to make them more competitve. Some people say robigo runs are "risky" But I don't get this, because they are easy and hardly of any risk. Yet massively rewarding. Then take any headhunter missions. They are more risky by the chance that such an opponent may be in a bigger wing, and the time effort ratio is rather high due to the randomness of seeking such specific individual in a system. They are far off any true income/effort*risk ratio. If ED would be a real universe, no one ever would mine in a ice ring because thats waste of time. FD could change this by changing the yield of various asteroids so that low price asteroid materials have a MUCH larger wield so that the time ratio lowers. That makes then a good balance in comparison to the high value but lower amount ores. Since it needs more time investement to fill up your ship with them. They need to analyse player behavior and also ask players rather directly why they do not do specific missions.

the problem that i have with the term "sandbox" is, that we have no sandbox here. we have a box without sand.
take a look at some other "sandbox" games,
Minecraft is a Sandbox where you are given blocks to be creative, to build what you want.
Eve Online is a Sandbox with player driven economy and markets, player owned systems and stations.
Tree of Life is a Sandbox game where you build your own village, trade with other players, or just attack them.

But Elite is just a box without the sand, because you cant really affect anything, atleast not alone. You cant buy out a market because once you get back or switch the instance the market is refilled, even without ships that restock it.
you cant wipe out a whole RES, the ships just respawn.
you cant produce things that you then deliver to other stations and players. The only "sandbox" thing in this part would be Mining, but even there is no diversity because painite is always the best material to get, and pristine metallic will always be the best belt (until they rework mining someday), but not even with those ores you can affect the market. The station could be dieing from hunger, they would still pay a lot for painite and alsmost nothing for food. I mean...normaly the three big Ps should be worthless by now, because nothing else is mined and sold. The market should adapt to the insane amount and reduce the value of them, while other materials increase

You are more or less sitting in the box watching others (the background sim) play with the sand, but you are to to understand what they do (because you cant see what exactly happens, not meant as an insult, just as a metaphor)

It's very much a hardened concrete box.

 

[Bluedeer]

As the other pilot in the OP image, I'd just like to point out through all these posts...


Did nobody stop for a moment to realize just how uniquely beautiful this is?

People that travel huge distances just to take pictures of themselves on planet Earth, no profit, no benefit, no effect on the local environment, just to get pictures of themselves somewhere, how come nobody seems to have mentioned just the sheer beauty of what is presented here?

I mean, look at the OP image. Two SRV's with their ships in the background, with a massive star behind them. Where else have you seen such a shot? Or even the images of the Distant Worlds campaign, the image of all those ships sitting around Sag A*, what other game are you going to find out there where you can see that? Sure, you can sit with your hunters and druids or perhaps your Minmatar cruisers in an instance somewhere, but they're not as -pretty- as what you can see here, not near as breathtaking as you can see. Sure, there's room for growth, room for improvement, but instead of griping about what isn't present yet... why has nobody stopped for a moment to appreciate what IS present? The first time I saw Betelgeuse in person, the sense of success I got for making the first jump to Barnard's loop all by me onesies, every time I go that far from home I get a thrill knowing I am so far away that if anything happened to me, it'd be more lost than just the cost of my ship, it'd be all that data and time lost too?

But above all of that, the grind, the exploration, the trading, the 'lack of depth' that seems to be the driving factor for negativity for what the game presents... you're never going to satisfy anybody. I stopped playing EVE because I hated how full of jerks it was. I stopped playing WoW for the exact same reason, AND for the fact that you couldn't really have any effect on the world. I stopped playing those because I felt like I was paying $15 a month for what would otherwise be a full time job just griding and raiding for what? More gold? A possibly better set of armor or weapon to wave around?

Nah, try scooting across the galaxy in a Diamondback Explorer, as fully kitted out as you can get to max range, and just go out there two or three thousand light years from home. See what you can see. Or like Datalink and I were talking, making a trip to Sag A* in nothing but kitted Sidewinders. ED is what you /make/ of it, and if there isn't a programmed mechanic to do something specific, there is enough for you to make your own story. Use your imagination! Or at the very least, take some beautiful screenshots to share with folks and tell your own story!

 

[Hilight]

I agree with you, this game needs tons of more gameplay and replayability.

Replayability? LOL There are quite a few of us who've been playing every chance we get for over a year now. Personally, I rate the replayability of Elite right up there with the Civ franchise--- that puts ED among the best games I've ever had the pleasure to play

 

[glynie]

You can't really tell someone they're not playing it right. The audience is what it is. If most people think the game's good then it's probably good. If most people think it's rubbish, it's probably rubbish.

 

[tomalus]

Grinding mechanics are cheapest and fastest to make, especially if you have to put alot of filler into your game.

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

ED is really a space adventure game.

There is a personal quest in the game.
It looks shallow on the surface but the depth is there.
If your not an adventure player then this game can be boring, that I can understand.

Grinding is a cheap tactic in the mmo world. It keeps players invested and controlled.
Go here, do this, fat rewards, do more, more rewards, repeat till you dead.
Next day show the other sheeples how hardcore you are, get praise.

Also some players just what end game and are not interested in any journey or pve.
I was like that in other mmo's.

 

[tawittle]

i actually feel like the missions are much better now, after you learn the new ones.

surface missions are amazing, 1 class 2 compartment for an srv and you can do occupied escape pod and drone kill missions: both of those are quick, fun and very profitable.

Instead of infinite kill pirate missions, there are a good amount of assassination missions now, and the new missions with the timed NPC assassinations don't bug out for me and are fun. Theres also new combat missions to meet a contact and get information on your "hit" and it can be something like pirate, extermination, or assassination missions.

For the trading side of things, theres lots more smuggling and trade missions now, with more dialogue, missions with multiple parts, and new missions like staying power and meeting the contact at specific time to drop off the loots usually work for me.

People talk about how bad the missions are, but honestly the only missions I've found to be bugged are the ones required "quest specific" cargo to be picked up and delivered (you can get the cargo, but won't have the right tag). The other new missions types work great for me.

I didn't really like the SRV driving at first, but I have to admit I'm falling in love with it again and I am really enjoying planetary landings more than I thought I would (very combat focused player, never done trading or exploration seriously). Theres lots of cool stuff to find on planet surfaces, like restricted areas, mining operations, guarded caches, etc.

Overall I feel like the missions for BGS grinding in 2.0 are way better because there are more dialogue, more mission types, and more complicated missions.

 

[mr_curry_fury]

I'm no grinder but whatever i did in the game eventually made me feel like I'm grinding. whether it be rep, merits, or credits. yeah I do feel it has no depth so I haven't played the game since horrizons launched I was planning on doing a series about the exciting stuff there is to do in the new season. but i feel since I'd wrap it all up in one episode. i should wait until more patches comes through before i send out the first episode and try to spread out the adventures I have over say 10 episodes. right now there is only content for me to cover in say 2 episodes. even then one episode would pretty much have me travelling to see these barnacles aaand try to find a wreck of these anacondas. no depth none. still tho they say its a 10 year long development of this game and we are only in the second year. so far its being fleshed out i guess. but hey best get some of the most important things in place before star citizen comes out because thats when the competition heats up.

Dont give me that oh SC will never release blah blah. they are speeding up the patches for their PTUs that shows that they are streamlining the pipeline of their development of content, quickly testing and releasing builds for public testing. dont sweat so hard that game is speeding up to the final straight. but uh I bet these guys at FD feel there is a monster closing in behind them. since we know it will impact their sales. Depending on where ED is when SC releases. how significant it will be i couldn't say. but Uncles and Aunts cant deny it will effect their income once SC goes live.

 

[Datalink]

Here's what I think the entire Elite franchise is...

Elite was written to be a space flight simulator, the ability to see distant worlds, explore new places, and yes, shoot things. It was written in an era where games like Super Mario Bros where considered impressive (and to be released a year after Elite). It did sell, it sold well, but it was also a bit niche even for it's day.

Both the Frontier games where to follow up Elite, expand on it's universe, but be faithful to the original game. A note, people actually complained a lot about the change from arcade physics to inertial physics in one of the Frontier games, I forget which one. Flight Assist in Elite: Dangerous is to satisfy both groups, the fans of Newtonian and arcade physics.

As for Elite: Dangerous: I have a story which points out what I get from the game.

I lament loosing a good star system I found. There was a deep blue gas giant, around it was this rather rocky icy moon. That moon had very fun mountains and valleys to drive in... the view... oh man the view. That gas giant had a huge ring system that practically touched the moon, so you had this genuinely alien scene of the world nearly touching the ring that practically went on further than the planet the ring was surrounding. The sight was breathtaking, and sadly it's a sight I may never see again... for I forgot to record the system. I found the system before I used EDDiscovery, and the only recording I had was a twitch video that expired when I wanted to go back to it. This is... for me, one of the most beautiful sights I saw... and it is gone... I will never see it again... I don't remember which systems I went through to get there I don't remember any information about the system, just... it was an epic one. I was first to discover the system too. The system was was a procedural generated, and it will forever be a pleasant memory of an amazing sight and experience. Fortunately there are a few billion other examples of these left to find.

This to me, is the heart of what Elite should be, shining moments of amazing memories that stand out.

To me, it's not about the ship I fly, my ranks, or my combat/trade/exploration status nor should it be. To me, this game is about moments to cherish and sights to see, because ultimately I am still that child that'd look up into the night sky and say "I wish I could be there."

This, in my mind is one of a few types that can get the most out of Elite... those who can appreciate the game for what it is... not lament what it is not.

I admit, I'm not always in the mood for Elite: Dangerous, when that's the case, I'll walk away, do something else, and come back when my mood shifts back to the game. I play it because it is fun for me. I play it because it lets me do things I can't really do... I can escape the drudgery of everyone trying to be better than each other, ironically... because I can do things like point my ship in a direction, and just see... wonder.

I see Elite as a flight sim, set in space, with combat, and trade, and a galaxy worth seeing... that is what this game should be defined as, at least in my mind. With that in mind, I can get what I feel is the most of my time in it.

Elite, like any game, is there for having fun and to enjoy; To appreciate and experience for what it is.

To me, it's okay if Elite's not fun at times... I actually haven't logged in for nearly a month because I'm not in a mood for it specifically. When I have the urge, it will still be there, and I will come back to again and tell the child in me, "you are there".

I will concede that in terms of missions, activities and ways to play, it is still teething. But it is something I do enjoy sometimes, I don't expect it to be the be all and end all of gaming, no game should fit that description. I say this because there are many play styles, there are many ways to enjoy a game. There's nothing wrong with not enjoying a particular game, there's nothing wrong with not enjoying it. If you do, do enjoy it, if you don't... there's no monopoly on games out there.

I also enjoy Minecraft, Space Engineers, Fallout games, Portal, Antichamber, Papers Please, Starbound, the Borderlands series, Kerbal Space Program as well as many other games. Those games are all good for what they are. There are many things about all of them that I don't enjoy, or I tire of over time, and when I do, I put them down, and see what looks interesting in my library. Elite fills a void that was original filled with Eve Online for me. I have always gotten the most out of games that let me just have fun on my terms, and that's perhaps made me a bit bias, but when I don't enjoy something, I put it down for a bit, go to another task and then come back when I'm in the mood again. I do have several games I don't like playing, and that's okay too, they're there, sometimes they even say 'play this' and I'll say yes... sometimes I regret it, and sometimes I add it to my active rotation of games.

The lacks depth argument keeps being made, I am going to pull a very challenging game off the list and describe why it's challenging and what makes it simple.

Papers, Please! is about sitting in a booth, looking at documents and saying Accepted or Denied. There's a bit of detective work to work out which answer is best. But ultimately it is just a choice of Accepted or Denied. Sure there's a scoreboard where you're deciding if your family should get food, heat or medicine every day. There's a few stories, viewed from the immigration booth. George, the regular violator. Other cases where you have to balance your own family against the need of people going through the booth. There's a shooting mini-game that pops up once in a blue moon, but the game... at it's heart... is just a choice of Accepted or Denied. The depth is subtle though the depth is there.

Depth is incredibly arbitrary to define, so much so that it is a great way to throw out something that is otherwise interesting or even impressive. To me, the Halo and Half Life franchises lack depth, does that make them bad games, no... it does mean they're not for me.

 

[glynie]

Here's my review: None of my friends will play it.         /5.

EDIT: I seriously can't believe that got censored...it wasn't even a profanity. The forums suck too.

 

[tagos]

I'm with the OP.

Of course I'd like the game to be even more but I'm very much enjoying the experience. I'm not 'grinding' because the only objective I have is to survive and thrive by playing the game in character as a Han Solo, Malcolm Reynolds type.

So I'm not slave trading, let alone stacking missions to make millions. I'm not hunting out great trade runs on the net and cashing in. Not that I have any objection to people doing any of those things so long as they don't turn around and claim they are 'bored'.

I just enjoy the process of working towards my own goals.

 

[Datalink]

Here's my review: None of my friends will play it. /5.

There are so many games I've played where I've had that problem. World of Warcraft, a group of my friends switched from Horde to Alliance, then to a different server, when I played... I don't play WoW anymore.

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I just enjoy the process of working towards my own goals.

The most important part of any adventure is the journey.