News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules

[AceFlares]

Wow. Diving into the realm of harassment on an Internet mmo. Here comes the class action suit followed by mass refunds.
There is a thread on these forums right now inciting inflame harassment against a specific group. It calls for members of mobius and others to actively undermine SDCs player faction in wolfburg. It also incites many slanderous insults toward the player group SDC. Will you please take action against everyone participating in that thread. Thank you.

Deliberately banding together to undermine a player faction is fair game play. I've no interest in it, but it's reasonable and within the rules. Choosing to join a PVE group intending to and indeed griefing it, is not within the rules, and morally dubious. If you and others fail to see that, then I guess we will just have to wait until you mature.

 

[bitstorm]

I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a forum that deletes valid bug reports and closes threads that would shed light on what would be the way to go.

Can you elaborate on this please.

What do you mean deleting valid bug reports?

Also deleting helpful posts?

Do you have examples.

 

[CMDR Mitch Gant]

As the nature of a deleting process is deleting (sic!) evidence, there's no proof.

So officially, it was a joke.

.oO(Did he really pick THIS sentence out of the whole thing? I need a break.)

Okay, once again:

- There's no stability problem in the game. It's just a single PC.

- There's no balance problem. It's just that one doesn't know how to play.

- There's no broken missions. It's just one's imagination that's broken.

- There's no griefer problem. It's just that one forgot to switch to Solo or Mobius.

All is well, keep on dancing.

 

[DHMeyer]

As the nature of a deleting process is deleting (sic!) evidence, there's no proof.

So officially, it was a joke.

.oO(Did he really pick THIS sentence out of the whole thing? I need a break.)

Okay, once again:

- There's no stability problem in the game. It's just a single PC.

- There's no balance problem. It's just that one doesn't know how to play.

- There's no broken missions. It's just one's imagination that's broken.

- There's no griefer problem. It's just that one forgot to switch to Solo or Mobius.

All is well, keep on dancing.

That's a good summary. I'd plus rep you for this, but have to spread some more rep first.

 

[bitstorm]

As the nature of a deleting process is deleting (sic!) evidence, there's no proof.

So officially, it was a joke.

What the??

You said "closes threads" right??

And if a thread has indeed been deleted you can still talk about it, I'm not going to stand here and call you a liar.

It just came across as quite a claim, which was exactly why I questioned it.

You're saying it was a joke, ok mate. I'm not sure how that was supposed to be obvious but hey.

 

[iofhua]

I don't like it. Anything should go in Open. If PvP isn't your thing, you can go solo or join a private group and invite your friends. "Repeatedly targeting the same person" is just another way to say "hunting".

This whole thing is stupid and the devs have lost my respect. They made two modes of gameplay to avoid PvP and they still cave to the carebears when people PvP in the PvP mode.

 

[DHMeyer]

I don't like it. Anything should go in Open. If PvP isn't your thing, you can go solo or join a private group and invite your friends. "Repeatedly targeting the same person" is just another way to say "hunting".

This whole thing is stupid and the devs have lost my respect. They made two modes of gameplay to avoid PvP and they still cave to the carebears when people PvP in the PvP mode.

Technically, they've made one PVE mode and that's Solo. Then for PVP there is Arena and Open is a PVP if anyone wishes to. Private groups are not PVE only, there can be PVP private groups as well. The PVE (or PVP) ruleset, if applies to a private group, it does so only based on an agreement between the players in this group.

 

[CMDR Mitch Gant]

And if a thread has indeed been deleted you can still talk about it, I'm not going to stand here and call you a liar.

It's called sarcasm. No offense.

I was called a liar by a now-top-notch-Mobius-guy in here a year ago for telling folks about the not-to-name-and-shame-guy at Leesti - George Lucas. I went away from the forum for several months after that. I consider the level of discussion in here pseudo-professional and I'm a bit hesitating... still.

It just came across as quite a claim, which was exactly why I questioned it.

Did it? Really? *sigh*

 

[frostypaw]

Increased actual security action is the solution here surely - don't ban them, just have them shot out of the sky by invulnerable federal forces every time they enter space. Atrocities lead to extraordinary response - yes you can do whatever your want but there will be consequences.

Cmdrs with mental issues would end up in treatment and jail, not endlessly supplied with new ships, insurance and support. Make the simulation more complete then no one gets to threaten to sue anyone. Cause a public terrorist incident interrupting live charity event and find corvettes locked on everywhere you drop into real space... Is the right thing to expect isn't it?

As is having your pilot's license revoked - spend your days looking at a dock and wondering if mass murder really is a valid career choice and why on earth you think you should be able to get away with it. The box doesn't advertise "be an actual psycho" and there's a difference inbetween hunting worthy challenging targets and being a       no better than beating up children for fun. License revoked, enjoy the view.

Not really interested in open play without consequences for behaviour, it would actually make it less real by a long way

 

[excalibus]

Impacted Fdev in the hip pocket, mobius accounts to 1% of players, they will not even dent FDs office toiletry budget, come back to earth wont you [haha]

i am not even going to get into the probable statistics of the percentage of the playerbase that mobius and other private PVE groups make up, it was actually not what I was referring to...

I am but one player who has vowed not to spend any more money on ED until there are systems in place to either stop a repeat of what has happened in mobius and to stop it happening from other groups or to give us an open PVE only mode.

I do not play in mobius, I do not play in other private groups, I do not play in Solo...
I had budgetted $500 to spend on ED merchandice through their store this year which is not going to be spent as a direct result of the situation with SDC and FDev's initial response, and I know of other players who are also doing the same with regards to purchases through the store as those of us choosing this option have spent considrably through the store previously and most of us as LEP holders which is why we spend additional money through the store as we never have to pay for the seasons...

I have no idea how many players in total are choosing to 'vote' with their wallet with regards to this but I do know I am not the only one choosing to do so...

So yes it does impact them in the hip pocket, how much of an impact only FDev know, but for this one commander, it is 500 AUD this year... we will see what happens over the course of this year...

PS yes there are things I was looking forward to purchasing from the store... oh well...

Why do this as It wont impact them I guess people will say... I do this because there obviously needs to be enforcement of the code of conduct for the service, and if frontier are not going to enforce their own code of conduct, then I am not going to spend another cent with them nor am I going to buy more copies of the game for friends nor am I going to reccommend the game to friends...

When there is a tangible and more importantly visible system in place that demostrates a clear stance of enforcing the code of conduct we all agree to abide by in the game then perhaps my stance will change...

 

[Chance-]

Deliberately banding together to undermine a player faction is fair game play. I've no interest in it, but it's reasonable and within the rules. Choosing to join a PVE group intending to and indeed griefing it, is not within the rules, and morally dubious. If you and others fail to see that, then I guess we will just have to wait until you mature.

Oh no! Not morally dubious?!? If we're taking action based on morals now its a scary place indeed. Also, when did we attack a PvE group? Last I checked we attacked a private group with mostly PvE elements and PvP in combat zones. We just forgot where the combat zones ended!

 

[Zatoichie]

Assumptions aside.

Of all the newbies I have met...

- almost all of them (!) quit after less than a week.

- main reason to quit:
----> 1) griefers - yes that's you, shooting at harmless and mostly harmless and novice cmdrs.
----> 2) broken mission system and the message "play the game doing missions".

FDev has still to realize one thing: Reputation is everything. You can do a lot of commercials, ads, conventions. What really counts is the one gamer telling the other one: THIS is something SPECIAL.

Only the hard core elitists do so. Most start the game, realize the mission system is broken, try to continue for all the money spent, get shot, get shot, get shot, get shot, quit.

Yes, there's no subscription. On the other hand there is the avid gamer not being shot to pieces by mediocre pilots just because his Python is in a trading outfit, just because he's not in for PvP, just because he's not in a wing... this avid gamer buys another season pass every year. He buys ship liveries, bobble heads even christmas trees. He tells his friends about the game, he gives reps, +1, likes to it at every given possibility.

The one being shot and killed whilst meeting nice people is going to look for nice people elsewhere.

This game needs a makeover in regard of a "no pvp" function, not a group of people choosing a smaller player base because of being ganked and griefed.

I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with this amount of frustrated newbies and newbie helpers being attacked every single night by the same "heroes" until they quit.

I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a 10% fuel bug that takes months to get rid of.

I can't see Elite living through its 10 yr plan. Not with a forum that deletes valid bug reports and closes threads that would shed light on what would be the way to go.

Guess what? I hate to see it that way. I was a backer. I would be, again. There's something completely rotten in the state of denmark, though.

TIME FOR ACTION, FDEV!

Think you hit it right on the head. I have gotten at least 20 friends to pick this game up after me hyping it. I have flown them around and taught them about the game. Of that 20 maybe only 3 are left. We recently had an incident of Harassment that was reported to FDev. Yet it was handled by "He was fair game" not in PP just a noob learning the ropes outside of a CG. This didn't sit well with me at all. In fact I have not played since. Even though it fit within the definition of harassment by FDev it was still handled poorly IMO. But be it as it is, their the devs and Im just a CMDR.

 

[DanaM]

..... I have gotten at least 20 friends to pick this game up after me hyping it. I have flown them around and taught them about the game. Of that 20 maybe only 3 are left. We recently had an incident of Harassment that was reported to FDev. Yet it was handled by "He was fair game" not in PP just a noob learning the ropes outside of a CG. This didn't sit well with me at all. In fact I have not played since.

This is "unfortunate," as FD would say.

FD has a tough row to hoe with this game: their vision is for a "cutthroat galaxy," problem is, that's often not a fun place to "play." People have to get their throats cut regularly, and that's an experience many people will not want to spend their free time lining up for.

How do you make the game "dangerous," with real in-game risk, yet keep the greatest number of people having fun so they'll want to continue to play and bring their friends?

The OP here and FD's apparent willingness to work with Mobius to close accounts seems to indicate your concerns are on their radar, but so far they seem to be struggling to find a way forward without continuing to alienate one group of players or another. That truly is unfortunate. I'm continuing to enjoy playing in Solo and private groups. I tell friends Open = griefer/PvP mode and to stay out unless that's what they're looking for. So far, so good.

 

[DHMeyer]

Think you hit it right on the head. I have gotten at least 20 friends to pick this game up after me hyping it. I have flown them around and taught them about the game. Of that 20 maybe only 3 are left. We recently had an incident of Harassment that was reported to FDev. Yet it was handled by "He was fair game" not in PP just a noob learning the ropes outside of a CG. This didn't sit well with me at all. In fact I have not played since. Even though it fit within the definition of harassment by FDev it was still handled poorly IMO. But be it as it is, their the devs and Im just a CMDR.

One of the problems of advertising Elite to friends is that there isn't much you can do together, but this is a separate issue. But yeah, for the time being I'd rather suggest them playing in Solo or Private Group rather than going into Open in some starting system.

 

[Jack Schitt]

How do you make the game "dangerous," with real in-game risk, yet keep the greatest number of people having fun so they'll want to continue to play and bring their friends?

Much as I hate to be the one playing the same old tune, it's ultimately down to the game's response to player actions. Right now there is no meaningful authority response to player action anywhere in the game, outside of silly things like ramming near a space station or forgetting to request docking clearance. The whole galaxy is basically one big CQC arena. Anything goes. Anywhere.

Not only does this not make one jot of sense as a socio-political simulation of a future civilisation, it has to be damaging to the game's broad appeal. I can think of no other multiplayer game in which swatting of newly minted individual players in starter systems, by players armed to the teeth in wings of four, is not only permitted and effectively ignored by the mechanics but actually encouraged by the developers. There is no other game that works like this, except maybe DayZ. Which is nirvana if that's how you want to play, but does nothing to further the games's reputation among those who don't.

That it was allowed to get like this, after all of David Braben's "rare and meaningful" preaching and all the work the DDF and others put in warning FD of where things might end up, is depressing indeed.

Changes are supposedly coming at some point in the medium future, so there is still hope that some semblance of order can be forged from the chaos. But knowing FD's penchant for tweaks rather than radical changes, a realistic and nuanced galaxy may take some time to fully emerge if indeed it ever does.

 

[RITZEL (GDA)]

Well i realy don't want to sound a little bit aggressive but several streamers already called me stream sniper and they are going to report me for harassment,but it's not my fault they are streaming in open play and being 100% honest i interdict everyone in my front if you are not in my friend list so i really don't know how to respond to such people.

 

[frostypaw]

Well i realy don't want to sound a little bit aggressive but several streamers already called me stream sniper and they are going to report me for harassment,but it's not my fault they are streaming in open play and being 100% honest i interdict everyone in my front if you are not in my friend list so i really don't know how to respond to such people.

Aren't streamers going to be distracted doing their streaming? So it's kinda like being the guy who thinks he's hard for punching someone in the back of the head while they're calmly sipping their pint telling a story to their friends?

Sorry if I'm wrong - if they were combat streaming and got a bit more combat that does seem like fair play, or if you had no clue and they just happened to be the unlucky sod in the pirate's sights but the other option doesn't seem particularly manly as such

 

[xondk]

I had budgetted $500 to spend on ED merchandice through their store this year which is not going to be spent as a direct result of the situation with SDC and FDev's initial response, and I know of other players who are also doing the same with regards to purchases through the store as those of us choosing this option have spent considrably through the store previously and most of us as LEP holders which is why we spend additional money through the store as we never have to pay for the seasons...

"I had money I was going to use but now I am not" really is a weird thing to say, especially when you by now have to have realized that FDev is working on a solution?
Maybe take a breath, relax a bit and wait for said solution?

This is "unfortunate," as FD would say.

FD has a tough row to hoe with this game: their vision is for a "cutthroat galaxy," problem is, that's often not a fun place to "play." People have to get their throats cut regularly, and that's an experience many people will not want to spend their free time lining up for.

How do you make the game "dangerous," with real in-game risk, yet keep the greatest number of people having fun so they'll want to continue to play and bring their friends?

The OP here and FD's apparent willingness to work with Mobius to close accounts seems to indicate your concerns are on their radar, but so far they seem to be struggling to find a way forward without continuing to alienate one group of players or another. That truly is unfortunate. I'm continuing to enjoy playing in Solo and private groups. I tell friends Open = griefer/PvP mode and to stay out unless that's what they're looking for. So far, so good.

Well I don't think that is a problem FDev creates, as much as it is a problem only a select few players are creating, because they take 'cut-throat' to mean blow up everyone who can't blow you up, and as such target the targets that are weak and can't defend themselves, making legit professions such as pirating, which is after cargo, not your death, get generally labelled as these type of people, when they are not.
But yeah FDev is aware and working on the issue, but until a solution is in, griefers have all the advantages in open with none of the risk, it isn't even close to real pvp, because they aren't actually seeking any challenges.

 

[excalibus]

"I had money I was going to use but now I am not" really is a weird thing to say, especially when you by now have to have realized that FDev is working on a solution?
Maybe take a breath, relax a bit and wait for said solution?

not I had money, I have money, I have budgetted to spend that money through the store, in fact just prior to the whole debacle with SDC infiltrating mobius etc I had just spend some of that money in the store...

The rest... well we will wait and see... I do realise they are working on a solution and I will wait and see how that solution pans out... I am in this for the long haul, and have supported FD through the store quite a bit, and may well continue to do so in the future, we will see, it depends on how they resolve issues of breaching the code of conduct and how they fix the problem of setting and enforcing rules for private groups along with group management tools...

The whole escapade has left a sour taste in my mouth with regards to FDev and I do not even play in Mobius... I do expect more from a professional software service development and delivery team than I would from an indie developer per se, especially with regards to certain community issues (aka PVE players being told to go play in mobius if they don't want PVP) and then mobius getting PVP forced on 15 of their members because some numpties want to get their jollies by creating a stir and then going on reddit and so on bragging how they are going to repeat it and so on and so on... all to a rather passe' initial response from the Frontier Community Manager.

That said, at least now Zac has clarified some aspects for everyone with regards to going what is considered a breach of the code of conduct which might stop further incursions... I guess it will depend on if they follow through or not...

It is but a small step in the right direction though which is encouraging to say the least.

 

[xondk]

not I had money, I have money.

Yes, ok.

But my point remains, yes it is taking a while, but the best game you can compare Elite to in terms of development model, is Eve online, it took a while for that one to pan out right as well, trial and error, which yes can be frustrating, but each time they add something that works according to intentions it at least to me has been stunning, yes there have been bugs, and yes griefers and such have had near free reign for quite some time, but there are games here today over 10 years old that still have all these issues and doesn't want to acknowledge it, Frontier has acknowledged and informed on it, that to me says they aren't as bad as the many other games out there. So yeah, it is frustrating, but nothing else has been perfect initially before, we just tend to only remember the good parts, and not how broken games like WoW were initially, heck the only reason it took hold was because it was 'warcraft'