Let's get one thing straight.

[bitstorm]

What's beside the point? That you labeled a bunch of things that matter to you that don't matter to me? There's something for everybody in Elite, and it's not going to be the same for everybody.

Um I listed a number of things that are important to the community and to ED as a whole.

I've never done Elite Racers, this is not important to me (though I fancy giving it a go), nor have I done Fuel Rat activities, nor am I on Distant Worlds, an unorecedented adventure to the furthest edges of the galaxy, which got over 1000 CMDRs got involved.

These are not personal to me, these are amazing things done in ED as a whole, I think most would agree these things are pretty awesome.

 

[Jypson]

Um I listed a number of things that are important to the community and to ED as a whole.

I've never done Elite Racers, this is not important to me (though I fancy giving it a go), nor have I done Fuel Rat activities, nor am I on Distant Worlds where over 1000 CMDRs signed up.

But I think most would agree these are pretty awesome things.

Again, what matters to one doesn't necessarily matter to another. There's nothing wrong with you opinions, but they are just that, opinion. Trying to add weight to your opinion by attempting to speak for others doesn't make your opinions fact.

 

[bitstorm]

I disagree, "the unexpected" is entirely distasteful to a lot of players and adds nothing to their gameplay. Hence the population of solo. There are some players that need that kind of action, but in the end it all becomes stale anyway, soon the unexpected is just the baseline and players of that nature are fickle, they'll move on to whatever next, shinier thing flashes in front of their eyes.

I think open gives staying power appeal to players who like and feed off of player-player interaction, but I think that has very little to do with the "unexpected" and much more to do with just feeling social. It goes down to how they work as a person, "why they play" rather than what the mode offers.

It seems like you're putting a negative slant on "unexpected".

Whats about the positive aspect of "unexpected"? ie Do you consider the emergence of something like the Fuel Rats to be distasteful?

 

[Bacalao]

Um I listed a number of things that are important to the community and to ED as a whole.

I've never done Elite Racers, this is not important to me (though I fancy giving it a go), nor have I done Fuel Rat activities, nor am I on Distant Worlds, an unorecedented adventure to the furthest edges of the galaxy, which got over 1000 CMDRs got involved.

These are not personal to me, these are important to ED as a whole, I think most would agree these are pretty awesome things.

There are very few of those you can't participate in if you play in solo or group. Open is by no means a requirement to be a fuel rat, join distant worlds (I believe they have their own private group), participate in CGs, chat with other people via steam or direct messages or on a TS or discord server. Open play does not corner the market on socialization or PwP participation/coordination. I think you're missing the factor (why they like solo) that many of those activities are enhanced for many players by doing them outside of Open because it removes the things that get in the way of their enjoyment of the game.

 

[Bill Clement]

That's a different topic though, you're using a different meaning of "unify" to make a point.

Open is the one mode everyone shares, from that point of view it IS the place where everyone is unified. Private groups are exactly that, private groups, I cannot just just enter your private group.

Anything outside of open has barriers to entry and as such barriers to play with other people, advocating any group above open results in *some level of* fragmentation.

You're moving the goalposts again Bits, me old mucker...

Spoiler

Put another way:

You've lost me. What other definition of unify are you using? You claim open unifys people- you say that playing that mode is a uniting experience. It isn't and I expanded on why that isn't the case. Now you're pointing out that there are barriers to players using different game modes. This is true, but it doesn't make one mode more uniting than any other- quite the reverse, many players who have experienced open actively seek other modes after experiencing unexpected or unwanted interactions with other open players. Their experience of open was divisive, not unifying. While I sympathise with their position, FD have provided them with alternatives. These alternatives keep players who might otherwise have left our community playing the game. Solo is unifying- it keeps individuals within our community who might otherwise have moved on. Don't underestimate the importance of those alternatives, or the role they play in keeping our community united. Most of the drama on this board comes from unwanted interactions, most of those in open or by players who prefer open. Having an alternative makes these an irritation, worthy of some harsh language on the forum where FD might just see it and might even do something about it. Without it, we might see the mass exodus that has killed many single mode games and almost destroyed some of the industry leaders, like Ultima Online.

 

[Bacalao]

It seems like you're putting a negative slant on "unexpected".

Whats about the positive aspect of "unexpected"? ie Do you consider the emergence of something like the Fuel Rats to be distasteful?

Not at all, as in my previous reply, you don't need to go into open to fuel rat or be fuel ratted. How much you like "unexpected" things is a matter purely of taste, hence the elegance of the three modes.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I agree with the OP in some respects.

Elite Dangerous isn't your typical MMO (if, indeed, you can call it that). It tries to do both. Some Multiplayer functionality with some Solo play.

I think what really needs to happen is this:

1. OPEN PLAY is the only viable way to shape the galaxy and, by that, I mean human bubble space. This means there is an incentive to play in OPEN - you get to change the political landscape, which means greater interaction between all players, which then also leads to a better sandbox experience. You and your friends, who have gone to great lengths in organizing strikes against stations (such as deliberatly selling Unknown Artefacts to stations to break them because another player faction "runs" it), should be rewarded in seeing how you have shaped the future.

2. SOLO PLAY & PRIVATE GROUPS should be all about chilling out. No other players (other than potential friends). No bother. But it should not be another bag of tricks avenue in which to increase your Robigo wealth - however, I put this down to faulty game design, not the players who do this and many other things in the game - Engineers should hopefully solve most of this. Nor should this type of play through these two modes be a so-called "Back-Door" whereby you can circumvent player interaction in order to change the core assets of the game without resistance from other players. Selling dangerous junk in solo to a station, such as "Unknown Artefact Bombing", is a        way of getting a back-hand against other player factions in the background sim - and there is nothing any opposing faction can do to stop this simply because of the whole SOLO/GROUP exploitation - whereas in OPEN PLAY, players who enjoy the background simulation would at least have a chance.

I think this is how it should be done.

OPEN PLAY should be counted as THEE Cannon mode for story-line and political purposes in terms of real progression.

Everything else - you said it yourself, you play this just to relax - so that's how it should be done, but not without some terms and conditions to keep everyone else happy.

 

[bitstorm]

Not at all, as in my previous reply, you don't need to go into open to fuel rat or be fuel ratted. How much you like "unexpected" things is a matter purely of taste, hence the elegance of the three modes.

Sure but question that led to the discussion was why Frontier would "prefer" open over solo.

Why they would "prefer" open over groups, well because nobody can enforce their own set of rules on open.

In all honesty I don't think "prefer" is the right word, that was someone else's wording. (hence I keep putting it in quotes)

Ultimately Frontier have to balance to open, if they don't people are pushed out to PGs and solo, and fragmentation happens.

It's in Frontier's best interest to keep people together.

 

[Jypson]

I agree with the OP in some respects.

Elite Dangerous isn't your typical MMO (if, indeed, you can call it that). It tries to do both. Some Multiplayer functionality with some Solo play.

I think what really needs to happen is this:

1. OPEN PLAY is the only viable way to shape the galaxy and, by that, I mean human bubble space. This means there is an incentive to play in OPEN - you get to change the political landscape, which means greater interaction between all players, which then also leads to a better sandbox experience. You and your friends, who have gone to great lengths in organizing strikes against stations (such as deliberatly selling Unknown Artefacts to stations to break them because another player faction "runs" it), should be rewarded in seeing how you have shaped the future.

2. SOLO PLAY & PRIVATE GROUPS should be all about chilling out. No other players (other than potential friends). No bother. But it should not be another bag of tricks avenue in which to increase your Robigo wealth - however, I put this down to faulty game design, not the players who do this and many other things in the game - Engineers should hopefully solve most of this. Nor should this type of play through these two modes be a so-called "Back-Door" whereby you can circumvent player interaction in order to change the core assets of the game without resistance from other players. Selling dangerous junk in solo to a station, such as "Unknown Artefact Bombing", is a way of getting a back-hand against other player factions in the background sim - and there is nothing any opposing faction can do to stop this simply because of the whole SOLO/GROUP exploitation - whereas in OPEN PLAY, players who enjoy the background simulation would at least have a chance.

I think this is how it should be done.

OPEN PLAY should be counted as THEE Cannon mode for story-line and political purposes in terms of real progression.

Everything else - you said it yourself, you play this just to relax - so that's how it should be done, but not without some terms and conditions to keep everyone else happy.

So if I choose to play in Solo, I'm not a CMDR anymore? I'm some kind of dodgy casual sub-class player that should be restricted and limited in gameplay? Elite: Dangerous Lite?

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Sure but question that led to the discussion was why Frontier would "prefer" open over solo.

Why they would "prefer" open over groups, well because nobody can enforce their own set of rules on open.

In all honesty I don't think "prefer" is the right word, that was someone else's wording. (hence I keep putting it in quotes)

Ultimately Frontier have to balance to open, if they don't people are pushed out to PGs and solo, and fragmentation happens.

It's in Frontier's best interest to keep people together.

> How so? We're all connected to the same BGS. The only thing the different modes do is change instancing, that's it.

 

[askavir]

Frontier best interest is to keep people playing, regardless of mode. As players have different interests and preferences, their solution with different modes is the best to accomplish this, making the game appealing to all kinds of players.

Regardless, some open mode players relentlessly keep insisting that their way is "the one true way", that they are the chosen ones by the prophet Braben, touched by angels for selecting a particular option on a game menu, and that the heretics of other modes must submit to the enlightened path or be damned in hell, while the enlightened way must be more rewarding for people walking the one true path because they endure imaginary tribulations.

I could be talking about fanatic religious extremists, but curiously I'm not.

 

[bitstorm]

Frontier best interest is to keep people playing, regardless of mode. As players have different interests and preferences, their solution with different modes is the best to accomplish this, making the game appealing to all kinds of players.

Regardless, some open mode players relentlessly keep insisting that their way is "the one true way", that they are the chosen ones by the prophet Braben, touched by angels for selecting a particular option on a game menu, and that the heretics of other modes must submit to the enlightened path or be damned in hell, while the enlightened way must be more rewarding for people walking the one true path because they endure imaginary tribulations.

I could be talking about fanatic religious extremists, but curiously I'm not.

I don't think you've understood the point.

That being that ultimately player interaction provides longevity to the game.

Sure throw out silly accusations accusing people of being "fanatical religious extremists" if you want, it only undermines any point you might have had.

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So if I choose to play in Solo, I'm not a CMDR anymore? I'm some kind of dodgy casual sub-class player that should be restricted and limited in gameplay? Elite: Dangerous Lite?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



> How so? We're all connected to the same BGS. The only thing the different modes do is change instancing, that's it.

Sorry but is this a troll question?

I mean I feel this has been talked about in many many threads for the last month.

You haven't seen the Sandro thread talking about the BGS issues?

There's more difference between the modes than instancing.

If that's really the case why do people switch to solo/pg for Powerplay activities?

 

[Jypson]

I don't think you've understood the point.

That being that ultimately player interaction provides longevity to the game.

Sure throw out silly accusations accusing people of being "fanatical religious extremists" if you want, it only undermines any point you might have had.

> In your opinion. You keep forgetting about that part.

 

[Bill Clement]

So if I choose to play in Solo, I'm not a CMDR anymore? I'm some kind of dodgy casual sub-class player that should be restricted and limited in gameplay? Elite: Dangerous Lite?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



> How so? We're all connected to the same BGS. The only thing the different modes do is change instancing, that's it.

Not quite, Jypson me old. While you're in solo or group I can't pew pew you from open. This is a big deal to some open players, who believe the one true mode should get even more preferential treatment than it already does to compensate them for choosing it. If you get to play by yourself, or in the company of friends, then you should be penalised for denying open players their entirely justified and totally fair pew pew quota.

I'm quite interested in the BGS and PP, as well as how player actions open up or close down gameplay options. I can't see any advantage in solo or group beyond giving you the entirely reasonable choice of who to play with. The notion that you're immune to interdiction and therefore more effective in PP or BGS operations is a straw man- anyone wasting time and resources on interdiction has given up far more than they can gain, the action is self defeating. If PP was played entirely in open no-one wanting to win would waste time interdicting when they could be undermining/reinforcing instead. Sandros suggestions came on the back of the large number of PP players choosing solo, not their effectiveness vs a similar number of players remaining in open. Perhaps they saw some advantage that I don't, but my personal opinion is that the player predisposed to PP is one who is less likely to see value in the many attractions of open. Player interactions would be seen as an unwelcome distraction, rather than a potentially fun and rewarding surprise. The OPs post reinforces that opinion. He's not 'hiding' by not wanting the noisy crowd getting on his nerves when all he wants to do is play his own game.

 

[askavir]

I don't think you've understood the point.

That being that ultimately player interaction provides longevity to the game.

Sure throw out silly accusations accusing people of being "fanatical religious extremists" if you want, it only undermines any point you might have had.

Player interaction might provide longevity for the ones who seek player interaction. How is this that hard to understand?

Even if you could force solo/group players into open, they would still not interact with anybody if they didn't want to. And sure as hell it would not increase the game's longevity for them. So what exactly would be gained? Which further interaction exactly?

Why don't open players interact with other open players, and leave other players alone?

I have never saw a single solo or group player nagging endlessly about how open players should be forced or encouraged to play in solo or groups. Only some open players seem endlessly butthurt about other people's way to play the game. And keep trying to impose their ways into others because they believe their way is the true way. So yes, they have that in common with religious fanatics.

 

[Jypson]

Not quite, Jypson me old. While you're in solo or group I can't pew pew you from open. This is a big deal to some open players, who believe the one true mode should get even more preferential treatment than it already does to compensate them for choosing it. If you get to play by yourself, or in the company of friends, then you should be penalised for denying open players their entirely justified and totally fair pew pew quota.

I'm quite interested in the BGS and PP, as well as how player actions open up or close down gameplay options. I can't see any advantage in solo or group beyond giving you the entirely reasonable choice of who to play with. The notion that you're immune to interdiction and therefore more effective in PP or BGS operations is a straw man- anyone wasting time and resources on interdiction has given up far more than they can gain, the action is self defeating. If PP was played entirely in open no-one wanting to win would waste time interdicting when they could be undermining/reinforcing instead. Sandros suggestions came on the back of the large number of PP players choosing solo, not their effectiveness vs a similar number of players remaining in open. Perhaps they saw some advantage that I don't, but my personal opinion is that the player predisposed to PP is one who is less likely to see value in the many attractions of open. Player interactions would be seen as an unwelcome distraction, rather than a potentially fun and rewarding surprise. The OPs post reinforces that opinion. He's not 'hiding' by not wanting the noisy crowd getting on his nerves when all he wants to do is play his own game.

You make a fine point CMDR. Maybe every other weekend I'll mount a shieldless Sidewinder and pop into Open so they can have their lulz. I don't want to be accused of denying anyone their fair share of content after all!

 

[Bill Clement]

[haha] I'm all out of rep Jypsun, here's an i.o.u...

 

[bitstorm]

Player interaction might provide longevity for the ones who seek player interaction. How is this that hard to understand?

It's not hard to understand, I've already stated as much when people have said they prefer solo.

I'm talking *overall*, not about selected individuals, I'm trying to take Frontier's position.

For the progression of a "decent number of players" they'll do solo stuff (in any mode) and eventually boredom sets in as they've done everything and seen it all.

Where do they go from there? You'll find many thread with folk asking this question and others suggesting they join a group, doing stuff with people simply extends the life of the game, it's that simple!

It's just doing something fun with some folk, that's all.

There is no REQUIREMENT to do it, but for a lot of folk it brings something new to the game. It's a free extra, call it free optional DLC if you want, if you don't want to then don't.

But from Frontier's POV it's in their interest to make this sort of thing accessible so that those who are bored and don't post on the forum don't just walk.

Even if you could force solo/group players into open, they would still not interact with anybody

Eh?? Where have I ever said players should be forced into open, ever???

 

[Jypson]

Sorry but is this a troll question?

I mean I feel this has been talked about in many many threads for the last month.

You haven't seen the Sandro thread talking about the BGS issues?

There's more difference between the modes than instancing.

If that's really the case why do people switch to solo/pg for Powerplay activities?

So if you can't refute an argument, you claim it's a troll question. Impeccable debate skills CMDR!

> Do tell, what other differences is their? Also, facts please, no wild claims and speculation.

 

[bitstorm]

So if you can't refute an argument, you claim it's a troll question. Impeccable debate skills CMDR!

> Do tell, what other differences is their? Also, facts please, no wild claims and speculation.

In your opinion.

(see I can do it too)

Please put forward an argument, you're saying nothing.

 

[Jypson]

In your opinion.

(see I can do it too)

Please put forward an argument, you're saying nothing.

Correct, it is my opinion that you have inferior debate skills based on your posts in this thread. I already made my argument above, feel free to peruse and respond when you've garnered your debating faculties.