Now let's talk about your latest treasure hunt.

courperationX · Mar 27, 2016

I didn't expect to be making a sequel to my weapons nit pick, a post which I still have yet to properly respond to. What can I say? I've been lost in the galaxy lately. That said, I feel this complaint may be far more valid across the board (and hopefully shorter), and it actually effects gameplay as-is. That's right, your treasure hunt riddle.

I saw the last one's winner being praised on GalNet and thought, "Hey, that's pretty good!" (ten points if you get that interwebz reference) So when I saw this one sitting on the feed for a day or two, my investigative nature got the better of me. You know, the investigative nature that resulted in that last, very long, in depth post I made where people complained about the length, and ended with me pulling a PDF from the web written by a US Air Force Major.

Now I'd like you to divert your attention for a moment to my signature picture there, the pilot's license mock up. Specifically, look at the birth place listed. Then come back to me. Done? Good. Anyone involved with the treasure hunt probably recognizes it. Now I'm not one of those people saying that I could've TOTALLY solved the hunt entirely and finished first if your first riddle wasn't bad. I'm just using that as proof that I absolutely could've figured out the answer to the first riddle if it wasn't bad. I mean the whole reason I chose that location for the birth place was because of the mythological ties, I dig that stuff, ever since I was ten. "So Xman, if it was so easy, why are you complaining about it?" Because I never said it was easy, I'm saying it kinda should've been, at least for me given it's nature.

So why wasn't it? Because there's such a large blaring hole in this riddle (and apparently the Galaxy Map) that I wasn't allowed to think that long. The riddle itself, was not wrong. What's wrong is the immense capability for it to mean something else entirely. The entire point of a riddle is to leave you without a clue until you figure out the answer that should be so obvious, you end up kicking yourself. And there lies the problem with this riddle: It leaves you with a clue. And worse yet, the wrong one, at least in this case.

To begin figuring this one out, I (started) going through the basic trouble shooting steps of investigation. Step one and only I was able to enact being: What does this phrase relate to? So I typed it in to Google for ideas. For "The resting place of the king," I found contents relating to King Arthur and his final resting place being "Glastonbury England". So I first typed in "Glastonbury" in to the Galaxy Map, and came up with nothing. The map doing it's usual lack of response for an incorrect input. Then on a whim, I typed "Arthur" in to the Galaxy Map, in which case it did something it literally just didn't do: I took that input and brought me to a system by a completely different name, "Nuitae".

NOTE: If FD needs proof of that happening I can always have my Xbox record it. But honestly you could probably just go try it yourself.

Naturally I thought, "Well the map literally isn't supposed to do that, that's a clue if I ever saw one." It turned out that in this system, there is a space port called "Arthur Station". So it only seemed logical that by following this King Arthur clue, I'd find out what the Queen clue was all about. But that didn't happen. I plotted a course to the other side of the human populated space, just to find out that the actual direction was a mere two jumps from my original location. My "home system" is Achenar, even my extra ship is docked there. Avalon is a high tech system in the area I regular that I often visit.

Now it turns out I joined this not long after it was finished, so it's not like it would've mattered to me if the riddle wasn't full of holes. It also means I didn't experience the later riddles, so I can't speak for them. But this one was not nearly specific enough.

Now I don't like to be completely negative. You come out with a sour taste and I come out looking like someone that plays the game just to be upset all the time. I love this game, and for the moment I thought I was on to something I was having a blast with the intrigue and mystery of it all. You just need to investigate your own treasure hunt before you throw it out to the masses. I'm honestly just glad for the winner and that they didn't run in to the same convincing snag I did.

EDIT: Hey FD, I'm fully aware I curse like a sailor so I censor myself. Last time I posted you seemed happy with that. This time around however you still felt the need to edit my post. That's confusing, but I suppose I'll just have to restrain myself next time. I wasn't aware that using * was against the rules. I wasn't trying to avoid the filter, I was simply attempting to filter myself. Won't happen again. As for the attachment... yeah I had a feeling that one might not be approved of but it didn't contain any technical swears so I though I might try it. Now I know. What can I say? I like to make people laugh. And after the post I made, I figured readers could use one.

Deedrix · Mar 27, 2016

"Hey, that's pretty good!"

Idubbbz, best cancer tbh.

courperationX · Mar 27, 2016

Ten points, to the man in the black hat! You win ten cancer points, Merry Christmas.

Alex Brentnall · Mar 27, 2016

You seem pretty annoyed and I can't really help you with that.
All I'll say is the clues are vague because literally thousands of people take part. Making clues too precise would lead to it being solved near instantly. This one lasted less than 24 hours.

Given it probably takes at least 5 developer hours to create something like this, probably nearer 20 hours realtime work It's a pretty poor payoff if they make it too easy.

Also for what it's worth this is a family friendly forums. Certain comments should probably be avoided, some may take offence, also using * and stuff to avoid the naughty word filter is against the forum rules. Those words were filtered for a reason, trying to get around that is a big "edit my post" sign to the mods

Viscera · Mar 27, 2016

you can always try this one I posted up last week instead

- https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=238954

biohazard15 · Mar 27, 2016

I've never liked the treasure hunts, but due to completely different reason that is already stated here: thousands of people take part, but only one wins. And it's ended in less than 24 hours. What about all the people who haven't been able to take part due to work and other things? What about those who came too late?
'
"Everyone can take part, but there is only one winner" is the worst way to make it. These hunts should be made like normal quests in any RPG: everyone is able to take part, and everyone can claim the prize. And just like normal quests, these hunts are staying forever until you take the offer and solve the riddles. The prize shouldn't be big (1M credits would be fine), but it would give people some fun alternative to the usual missions. Of course, there will be walkthroughs posted all over the net... just like normal quests!

Alex Brentnall · Mar 27, 2016

biohazard15 said:
I've never liked the treasure hunts, but due to completely different reason that is already stated here: thousands of people take part, but only one wins. And it's ended in less than 24 hours. What about all the people who haven't been able to take part due to work and other things? What about those who came too late?
'
"Everyone can take part, but there is only one winner" is the worst way to make it. These hunts should be made like normal quests in any RPG: everyone is able to take part, and everyone can claim the prize. And just like normal quests, these hunts are staying forever until you take the offer and solve the riddles. The prize shouldn't be big (1M credits would be fine), but it would give people some fun alternative to the usual missions. Of course, there will be walkthroughs posted all over the net... just like normal quests!

Interesting idea, I guess the main issue is many people will either ignore it because a lot of these people enter for the challenge, fame and glory.
Take this recent one. The reward was 10mil, the CMDR claiming it had 600mil cash + numerous ships. If there were unlimited winners there would be much fewer participants, I assume it's similar with the top 1/5/10 CMDR's on community goals hauling much more than if there was only a top 10% bracket.

Crimson Kaim · Mar 27, 2016

I agree with the OP in the point that the meaning is simlly not precise which makes not only the riddle boring but in combination with the low reward not worth my attention. I'd rather go bounty hunting for an hour or two and get the same reward.

They should make riddles out of the Elite history and not some complete randomness found in the depths of humanity. So ething we all can relate to. The previous hunt was about Faust if I remember correctly? Even though I am german I don't pay attention to Faust as it is simply boring so it is not the one who thinks faster or more accurate but the one who simy was informed about Faust. This makes the riddle more to a random selection of people who habe a random combination of knowledge and experiences rather than an accurate selection of peolple with a healthy mindset and a logic thinking.

Comrade Error · Mar 27, 2016

Yo where is my TL;DR?

Sapyx · Mar 27, 2016

To address some of the OP's concerns:

Firstly, the Galaxy map has always allowed you to find planets and stations, not just stars. Type "Hutton" into the map and it'll take you not only to Alpha Centauri, but to the other 18 stars with a space station or planet named "Hutton" in the game. Type in "Unity" and it will take you to New Yembo, even if you've never been to New Yembo before and the New Yembo system is still unexplored for you. So the map taking you to a system where there's a station named "Arthur" is not unusual behaviour.

Secondly, on flying to the far side of the galaxy following a false clue (or false interpretation of a clue): that's part of the fun and part of the risk you take when you accept these quests: the chances of your interpretation of a clue being completely and utterly wrong. In the first one of these they ran, back when people were unaware they would not be asking people to leave the Bubble, I seem to recall some people flying out a couple thousand lightyears into uninhabited space, following their (wrong) interpretation of a clue. Indeed, with the number of participants these quests attract, you need most of them to go gallivanting about the wrong parts of the galaxy if you're going to have a chance to win.

Finally, on the issue of "unfairness": most CGs are "fair" in that the rewards are distributed in direct proportion to effort expended - if you grind your way to the top the fame, glory and credits are yours, and if you only do a token amount you only get paid a few tokens. These quests are different - they are a "competition". They are more like a sporting event, or a raffle: many can enter, but only one can win. They don't give out gold medals to every athlete at the Olympics, only the winners. I have no problem with this.

Speaking for myself, I thought "Avalon" as soon as I read the first clue, but I was at work at the time; by the time I logged onto the game and found out that there was indeed a system named Avalon in the game, with a station named after a legendary queen, the quest had already been won. Oh well, c'est la vie.

mojododo · Mar 28, 2016

Sapyx said:
Finally, on the issue of "unfairness": most CGs are "fair" in that the rewards are distributed in direct proportion to effort expended - if you grind your way to the top the fame, glory and credits are yours, and if you only do a token amount you only get paid a few tokens. These quests are different - they are a "competition". They are more like a sporting event, or a raffle: many can enter, but only one can win. They don't give out gold medals to every athlete at the Olympics, only the winners. I have no problem with this.

Whilst i agree with this point that its a competition and the first and only winner should get the prize, it disengages a proportion of your playerbase by deliberately excluding them if they are only a casual player. I am in game and on the forums enough to hear about these events as they are announced but the people who arent regulars or come in late simply wont bother if they are a day behind the news, as they would have next to no chance. He has a point, make it win-able to all, but reduce the payout significantly if your not the first winner. Have it like the CG's where the comp runs the tick week, but the major prize is gone once the first CMDR gets it.

metatheurgist · Mar 28, 2016

Ya, I have to agree with you about the nature of the riddles. They're far too open to interpretation. A good riddle is hard but when you work out all the elements you should be left with only one conclusion. I didn't try this last one, it finished before I even saw the Galnet posting. The only experience I have is with the previous one, and the riddles were terrible. There were multiple sentences but really only one sentence was significant; it's pot luck as to which one you pick and which avenue you pursue. And with a galaxy this large, it's not often fun to fly those distances just to chase a hunch.

Aewarin Jameson · Mar 28, 2016

The only thing that annoyed me about the whole "treasure hunt" was that it was over in 7 hours ... by the time I noticed the thread on the forum (cos ya know - life) someone had completed it.

courperationX · Mar 28, 2016

mojododo said:
Whilst i agree with this point that its a competition and the first and only winner should get the prize, it disengages a proportion of your playerbase by deliberately excluding them if they are only a casual player. I am in game and on the forums enough to hear about these events as they are announced but the people who arent regulars or come in late simply wont bother if they are a day behind the news, as they would have next to no chance. He has a point, make it win-able to all, but reduce the payout significantly if your not the first winner. Have it like the CG's where the comp runs the tick week, but the major prize is gone once the first CMDR gets it.

I think the single winner thing is great, it raises the stakes. But I can also see where you're coming from. I suppose a "thanks for playing" payment would be beneficial without degrading the high reward of the winner.

courperationX · Mar 28, 2016

Sapyx said:
To address some of the OP's concerns:

Firstly, the Galaxy map has always allowed you to find planets and stations, not just stars. Type "Hutton" into the map and it'll take you not only to Alpha Centauri, but to the other 18 stars with a space station or planet named "Hutton" in the game. Type in "Unity" and it will take you to New Yembo, even if you've never been to New Yembo before and the New Yembo system is still unexplored for you. So the map taking you to a system where there's a station named "Arthur" is not unusual behaviour.

Secondly, on flying to the far side of the galaxy following a false clue (or false interpretation of a clue): that's part of the fun and part of the risk you take when you accept these quests: the chances of your interpretation of a clue being completely and utterly wrong. In the first one of these they ran, back when people were unaware they would not be asking people to leave the Bubble, I seem to recall some people flying out a couple thousand lightyears into uninhabited space, following their (wrong) interpretation of a clue. Indeed, with the number of participants these quests attract, you need most of them to go gallivanting about the wrong parts of the galaxy if you're going to have a chance to win.

Finally, on the issue of "unfairness": most CGs are "fair" in that the rewards are distributed in direct proportion to effort expended - if you grind your way to the top the fame, glory and credits are yours, and if you only do a token amount you only get paid a few tokens. These quests are different - they are a "competition". They are more like a sporting event, or a raffle: many can enter, but only one can win. They don't give out gold medals to every athlete at the Olympics, only the winners. I have no problem with this.

Speaking for myself, I thought "Avalon" as soon as I read the first clue, but I was at work at the time; by the time I logged onto the game and found out that there was indeed a system named Avalon in the game, with a station named after a legendary queen, the quest had already been won. Oh well, c'est la vie.

Really? That's funny. Because the last time I typed in "Phoenicis" on the Galaxy Map looking for a system I'd been to I got nothing. And anyone that regulars Empire space will know that multiple systems have a strange fascination with the word. So according to my previous experience with the map, it was not supposed to do that. It's not that I have a problem with challenge, it's that a riddle isn't supposed to be misleading. It's supposed to be perplexing. A competition surrounding a riddle shouldn't be set up to reward the first person who can guess right, it should reward the first person who can actually figure it out properly. That's the entire point of a riddle.

Also, Avalon wasn't the resting place of King Arthur, it was where people believed he went to recover from his wounds and return at a later time. His actual resting place was "Glastonbury". So the riddle wasn't even correct, mythologically speaking. Hence, why I thought I was looking for a place where I'd find "Arthur".