Effectiveness of crazy, evasive flying.

jamieboo

J
Been vastly enjoying playing with 1.1, but I have been wondering about this.
Even with crazy strafing, rolling, pitching etc, I still find that once an enemy begins an attack run an awful lot of their hits strike home.
Obviously if an enemy has gimballed weapons then this is rather more likely, and heat mechanics come into play too, but what are peoples thoughts on this?
I really enjoy the idea of seeing weapons lance harmlessly past my cockpit as I evade with some kind of capricious space galliard!
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Slopey
Range + someone with Gimbals, you can spin all you want - you'll get shot up.

Close them down, or extend beyond the other's range.
 

Aleksej

Aleksej
I can also be very accurate with fixed weapons. Only really close distance combat gives chances to evade being hit.
 

gabereiser

G
Evasion in ED is much more deliberate than rapidly trying to dodge. It takes a few seconds for your side thrusters to reach full power. Likewise any time you make thruster adjustments, it takes a bit of time to get to full power.

What I do is as soon as I see an enemy turn head on for a run, I start side thrusters... I then roll the opposite way and as they start firing, I give a bunch of yaw. This allows me to do the "star fox" maneuver called "Do a barrel roll!" with a large enough radius to miss initial shots. Once the shots DO hit, I reverse the yaw amount and disengage the flight assist as he/she is now close enough to do the "Newton Shuffle" where you are heading one direction but facing another.

As they pass by me, I re-engage flight assist, feather the throttle do get the maximum turning rate (always pulling up on stick, never pushing down) and get in behind. Once behind, it's always a kill....

Unless they have gimbaled weapons, then it's lights out... sorry.
 

jamieboo

J
Yes. And I think even fixed weapons gimbal a little don't they.
Personally, despite the consequent difficulty, I rather wish they didn't.
 

Aleksej

Aleksej
jamieboo said:
Yes. And I think even fixed weapons gimbal a little don't they.
Personally, despite the consequent difficulty, I rather wish they didn't.
Click to expand...

I would call it little aim assist. I think that it is quite logical to have it in the game. Otherwise additional weapon settings would be required, such as targeting distance as you would not be able to hit small target because it would fit between two straight pulses or beams.
 

Paulo_B27

P
When under attack, I recommend turning in to the fight and getting guns and missiles on them asap, especially if you have been taken by surprise. Also try boosting past them so at least you have a few seconds without being shot.

Another poster was correct, trying to out manoeuvre someone with distance and gimballed weapons doesn't work.

The key I find is to monitor your radar at all times and ensure that you don't get caught out in the first place, although this is not always possible!

Good Luck.
 

jamieboo

J
You're right, I think it is logical to have it in the game.
Never been a fan of logic! ;)
Also, as for targets fitting between beams, I'd wondered about this. I'd assumed lines of fire were parallel, and I guess on a Sidewinder the weapons are 3-4 metres apart, so I don't know of the chances of a target slipping between. Of course larger ships will possibly have more estranged weapon placements. Hmm.
But as for the original issue, I guess you're right, I just like the notion of traditional evasive flying. I want to be saved my capricious space galliard.
CAPRICIOUS SPACE GALLIARD!
:)
 

Adept

Adept
Even the fixed weapons not only track a little, but auto-harmonise. At least it looks like that. The beams and projectiles hit where you aim, not on both sides of it.
 

ste

S
I was thinking the same thing, dodging fire doesnt really seem a strategy, against the AI anyway. I dont know if they have been given a little helping hand in the aiming stakes to make them more competitive.
 

Erik Marcaigh

Erik Marcaigh
In dogfighting, another thing to look at closely are their thrusters. Want to know which way they want to go? Major clue right there. I stayed out of another player's sights by just watching their thrusters. (Of course that means you still have to behind/above/below/or to the side of them.)
 

Mephane

Mephane
Adept said:
Even the fixed weapons not only track a little, but auto-harmonise. At least it looks like that. The beams and projectiles hit where you aim, not on both sides of it.
Click to expand...

Only to a limited extent. When you are very close to the target, two lasers hit two different spots, or one of them might miss while the other still hits.
 

Adept

Adept
Mephane said:
Only to a limited extent. When you are very close to the target, two lasers hit two different spots, or one of them might miss while the other still hits.
Click to expand...

Which is great. It means that Frontier plays fair and the weapons actually have limited mobility in their mounts.
 

Arkronis

A
Depending on distance from the attacker; if jamming your throttle in to full reverse would help as a surprise move to break their attack and get behind their FOV?? :p - Never tried it myself. Anyone with any experience in this manoeuvre and its effectiveness?

(edit - of course the time it takes for the engine to push you back will take time, so it may not be...)
 

Ben Ryder

Ben Ryder
I'm not really having any problems regarding being shot at by gimbled weapons. The balance seems pretty good. I earned my first cobra with just a sidewinder with fixed pulse lasers and a couple of heat sinks. No piracy, no cargo catching, no other upgrades.

I then moved on to gimbled weapons with a sidewinder starting pretty much from scratch and worked my way to enough to buy a second cobra.

The gimble adds in accuracy and it loses in damage done. I've now ditched my gimbled lasers and I'm using the gimbled machine guns and the same seems true so far... I'll be comparing them to fixed.

******g bullets and lasers doesn't really seem to realistic but evading them does. However, when someone has a lock on me (with eyes or technologically enhanced... well they've got a lock and it seems fair enough too, that I need to break that lock or destroy them rather than dodge or try and out run the incoming fire.
 

Jorlin

Jorlin
Since the original poster is on 1.1 (premium beta, like me), i think where the question comes from:
Incursion, Wave 7-9

You can't simply go in and try to stay close. If you track one, the others will get you (at least on wave 9).
By running for a while, you can only seperate the fed. fighter from the others, since he ist a bit slower (but you risk losing him).
I'm still testing for other tactics than "reversing" the first two sidewinders but it's time consuming and a bit boring to do 1-8 everytime ;)
What i did not realize at first is, that the sidewinders are differently equipped, the one with multicannons is hard to run from.
 

Splendour

Splendour
From my experience at 500m+ evasive manoeuvres can be very effective to avoid cannon fire, but if you're being targeted with lasers it needs to be all about speed - getting out of arc or out of range as soon as possible.
 

Jorlin

Jorlin
Splendour said:
From my experience at 500m+ evasive manoeuvres can be very effective to avoid cannon fire, but if you're being targeted with lasers it needs to be all about speed - getting out of arc or out of range as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

And that's the problem there. Two Sidewinders with lasers, one with cannons and the fed fighter (forgot what he carries). :)
 
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