Horizons So apparently nothing has changed...

Kayurin

K
Blackcompany said:
You're angry and you should be. You were sold a product that doesnt work, and the maker is completely ignoring this in favor of...whatever it is Frontier is doing now other than working on Elite...

The state of the game is frankly inexcusable at this point. I am sure that, in reality, Frontier are working on it. However, they should have put in the time prior to the release of the content, not after.

This is the very reason I will not buy Season 3 until the end, when the content is present and finished, if it is by then. If not, I will wait even longer. But I have no intention of ever buying another season up front again. Fool me twice...
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I agree with your reasoning and, like many others, won't buy any Season pass anymore until content for said Season is actually delivered in a swift and professional way. But at the same time, I'm not 'angry', and I can't really sympathize with people who complains they spent those extra €20 for the beta access. Seriously, they choose to do so, getting buyers' regrets now is pointless. There is no point in being angry and coming to the forums to make a rantpost. Wonder if FD would let us keep a post with a poll about our intentions to buy or not an eventual Season 3, but that's a different story and approach.



For wanting a product they paid for to work? Next time you buy a computer, ask for one without RAM and have them ship it to you separately. When they feel like doing so. Or try a car without brakes perhaps.

Why is this so acceptable in the realm of Video Games? In most other industries the sort of behavior game developers exemplify would have a company sued into bankruptcy.
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EULA, simply and plain. We all signed one that allows Game Developers to act the way they do, we can't sue them, it's pointless to complain on their forums, the only thing you can do is not purchase their products.
 

Zplintz

Zplintz
Blackcompany said:
You're angry and you should be. You were sold a product that doesn't work, and the maker is completely ignoring this in favor of...whatever it is Frontier is doing now other than working on Elite...

The state of the game is frankly inexcusable at this point. I am sure that, in reality, Frontier are working on it. However, they should have put in the time prior to the release of the content, not after.

This is the very reason I will not buy Season 3 until the end, when the content is present and finished, if it is by then. If not, I will wait even longer. But I have no intention of ever buying another season up front again. Fool me twice...

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For wanting a product they paid for to work? Next time you buy a computer, ask for one without RAM and have them ship it to you separately. When they feel like doing so. Or try a car without brakes perhaps.

Why is this so acceptable in the realm of Video Games? In most other industries the sort of behaviour game developers exemplify would have a company sued into bankruptcy.
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Every time I buy a computer I buy in parts and assemble it myself. I know what I am buying because that is what I expected. If I bought a car knowing it would not have brakes, I wouldn't be surprised or upset that it arrived without brakes.

Frontier were very open and honest about Horizons and there is plenty of history in the game's development since the KS for people to base their expectations on.

I can (and do understand) why some people might have been upset at launch if Elite Dangerous wasn't as finished and polished a product as they might have wanted but anyone buying Horizons at launch when Frontier was quite open about what it would and would not include and that there were to be regular expansion during the 'season' is beyond me. Anyone buying into beta needed only to check the forum to find out what the betas (at every stage) are like and how long roughly they lasted.

I do understand why some people are disappointed with the development speed or current content. I understand why some leave and come back to see if there are improvements but at the end of the day vote with your feet if you feel hard done by but if what you really want is for the game to improve, turning up on a forum to rant and throw insults at other forum members serves no purpose other than to turn FD away from your comments. (This goes for people who choose to attack those with grievances in order to defend the game too).

For what it is worth, I will buy each season as it is made available and enjoy each update throughout the year as it comes - after all, it all goes to help fund the game and enthuse FD to keep going. Which in turn improves the game in its entirety.
 
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Sans Daring

Sans Daring
Blackcompany said:
You're angry and you should be. You were sold a product that doesnt work, and the maker is completely ignoring this in favor of...whatever it is Frontier is doing now other than working on Elite...

The state of the game is frankly inexcusable at this point. I am sure that, in reality, Frontier are working on it. However, they should have put in the time prior to the release of the content, not after.

This is the very reason I will not buy Season 3 until the end, when the content is present and finished, if it is by then. If not, I will wait even longer. But I have no intention of ever buying another season up front again. Fool me twice...
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The content is fine. For over thirty years of gaming, there is a measure of expectation, and while there are things to be improved (and as far as I'm aware the dev team has not changed in size so whatever further devs Frontier has going on isn't really in the equation).

If you waiting for pioneering games that have no comparative worldwide, that operate in a fluid, multi-interfacing environment, to operate perfectly, then you'll be seeing games delayed for a long, long time. Personally speaking, the bugs I've seen in Elite I've seen in games far worse in the past, and they weren't like what we have now where developers fix bugs. Yesteryear you had a bug in the game you laughed, shrugged it off and prayed you had a save point - you never had the chance of bugs being sorted after purchase.

I can appreciate frustration, I think what isn't fair, as someone who has worked on productions, is the narrative generating on how development works; that Frontier are just not interested in bugs/ignoring them for new content/not listening etc etc. Development in games is highly structural, its not like sticking a patch of wallpaper over a hole. What can be fixed is, like in any production system, not simply looked at as a singular problem, but how that inter-relates systematically and that gives you windows of when best to fix bugs. You don't just do them on the fly, not on a game of this size.

I just think that has to be remembered, this is a massive game, a massive game that is continually existing. The benefit is these types of games are thereby continually being fixed.

I'm not saying this to antagonise, quite the opposite. If one steps back from the frustration and sees Elite for the massive undertaking it is, and consider that Dev is on your side, this loses a lot of the annoyance. This is a structurally a big project, it is organic, it is fluid. That can mean bugs flair up and get sorted later when the opportunity arises, but it does mean bugs get sorted! That's how gaming is changing. It's wonderful - games are no longer fixed entities. They can change and grow, but that will always create teething problems.

For wanting a product they paid for to work? Next time you buy a computer, ask for one without RAM and have them ship it to you separately. When they feel like doing so. Or try a car without brakes perhaps.

Why is this so acceptable in the realm of Video Games? In most other industries the sort of behavior game developers exemplify would have a company sued into bankruptcy.
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It's not a great analogy. If Frontier made you pay for a game that doesn't run at all, it could not function as a product, just as a car couldn't function properly without brakes, then yes. But the game works. Furthermore, there is nothing like Elite really. You're off spec with video games with some of the best technicians, artists and creatives breaking new ground as largely independent bodies, so independent they've been partially funded by the consumer. They are comparatively small art projects and that's how you should see them. Not a comparison to a utility, but to a creative piece of art that for the price you pay you get annual development, changes and repairs. Maybe not all at the time you desire, but they are working for you, we are all working together. We all want the same thing.

And this is said after my game has crashed in the middle of a surface mission wiping out the sentry nest I was gunning to get a pod. That's games. It happens. A game that has to run continually, on multi platforms, globally consistent, with a comparatively small dev team. Tis life :)

It's good stuff. Everyone is in this together, we all want the same thing. Keep reporting problems, keep communicating. Try not to assume or judge, and just enjoy this stunning game until you want to play something else. Life is too short otherwise!
 

Zarlok

Zarlok
I have played many games and this is at the top of the list. While I am keen to see 2.1 I can just go and do my own thing of which there is alot. Cheers Cmdrs!
 
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Runnybabbit

Runnybabbit
For what it's worth, and to add a little balance to the people commenting that the game, shall we say, isn't good enough?

I'm one of the older players, 61 next birthday, and have been disabled for a few years now. I've got into computer games late in life (apart from the very early ones like Pong, Pacman, etc), starting with Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, etc. I got into flight sims courtesy of a friend who gave me a HOTAS, and went then, with War Thunder, DCS, Rise of Flight. Then came two choices for me to make from August 2014, Star Citizen, and Elite Dangerous...

I studied both Forums voraciously, soaking up as much information as I could about each game, which were both scheduled to be released at Christmas 2014. By mid December, I decided on Elite Dangerous.

Since then, unlike any other game I've enjoyed (and I still dip into DCS, Rise of Flight and War Thunder, also ARMA 3) I've played Elite every day since the first week of 2015, never missed. I knew the game was really still in development, despite the public release, because I read the Forums. It still is.. When the chance came last year to obtain a Lifetime Expansion Pass, I weighed up how much I enjoy the game, against the cost of the Pass, and against the cost of paying for each season individually. Despite the fact that I've never played a game for longer than a few months before losing interest, I went with the Pass.

Not everything in the game "floats my boat" all the time. For instance, I don't get anything from CQC at the moment, so I leave it alone, except when on a whim I try my hand. Sometimes I enjoy trading, sometimes Bounty Hunting, sometimes Exploring. I haven't yet been inspired enough to try Mining (though I intend to when the fancy takes me).

My point is, that the game, just like life itself, is what you make it.. You get out of life, what you put in. Everyone's different, with their own, different approach, and all will approach the game with those parameters guiding them.

In summary, yes, everyone has an opinion, and the detractors of the game, do not state any facts, merely their opinions, as here, I've stated mine. Myself being 'old school', means that, if I don't like or enjoy something, I don't go on a rant, I simply leave and find something else to do.. Life, is far too short to be miserable..:cool:
 

Genxav

Genxav
1+ OP,

I will not be buying another season until its finished. I bought Season 2 to support, but not anymore. No meat, no money

Elite:WaitingTM
 

kpmop

K
Feeling a little masochistic today so...

OK, there are a few problems with the game (some missions, interdiction mechanics, uncoordinated crime/punishment, not enough internal slots in the DBE ;-) to name a few) but in general it works pretty well. Horizons (so far) has added quite a lot of content to the game - we can land on (atmosphere-less) planets, drive around (without randomly exploding anymore too!), attack bases, "mine" some minerals which we can actually use (rather than just dumping for credits). So far so good.

I suppose the main genuine gripe is that BB missions are still flaky - it's almost a core part of the game after all - but other than that and 2.1 being delayed, the game is pretty much where I expected it to be.

Hopefully the missions will get fixed in 2.1 and hopefully the new content won't cause more problems, but I think people are losing sight of what's already been done.
 

Barmatyr

B
Elite is not a mmo, is not a rpg, is not pvp game,is not a space sim.... is not a game. There is basic thing to make a game, no matter graphic aspect or simulation component. Just few thing to make a game, very simple mechanic which are not in Elite. It's nearly the same than in a novel, but don't seem to be the matter for those who exploit the game. For me this product is exactly the same than a cage and a wheel. The world look huge but it's a cage, you cannot do anything on it, no mechanic to work on and no story. The wheel, you can make you're own story of your pilot but in fact. you're just making what authorized for you to do, collecting money with glitches mechanic, where you feel powerful. But you're meaningless, you have no effect on anything. You have no story to take part on. You're just running in a wheel in a big, wonderful, amazing cage...

It's ok to be satisfy with it, hamster is so why not human. It seem that we must be ok to be meaningless cobaye. It's what is ask for us everyday, we just need wonderful cage !

Have fun running the wheel !
 
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Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Malakie said:
Let's use one example, many of the missions that do not work. Trying to use the excuse that it is taking this long to fix the missions is just that.. an excuse. I don't deny there may be some major bugs they have had a heck of a time tracking down.. But MANY of the bugs complained about are not something that takes a rocket scientist to diagnose and bug fix.... especially some that are game stopping like some of the missions are.
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I take it you haven't acquainted yourself with 2.1?
 

CDR Michael Darkmoor

CDR Michael Darkmoor
Barmatyr said:
... You're just running in a wheel in a big, wonderful, amazing cage...

It's ok to be satisfy with it, hamster is, so why not human. It seem that we must be ok to be meaningless cobaye. It's what is ask for us everyday, we just need wonderful cage !

Have fun running the wheel !
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It's only a cage if you cannot get out of it... walk away already... be free!!! :D
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Here you have the choice... live your life in imagined mental "slavery" to the FD dev "overlords".... or not.
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Meaningless??? Then why is the "idea" taking up so much "space" in so many brain pans - One would think that those who do not care would not even bother posting on the subject.
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Seriously... people should try to start charging "Rent" for the use of their heads as media processing and storage devices. ;)
<it might help to recoup the cost of their self-perceived "mistake(s)">
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SentineI

SentineI
Ziggy Stardust said:
Malakie said:
Let's use one example, many of the missions that do not work. Trying to use the excuse that it is taking this long to fix the missions is just that.. an excuse. I don't deny there may be some major bugs they have had a heck of a time tracking down.. But MANY of the bugs complained about are not something that takes a rocket scientist to diagnose and bug fix.... especially some that are game stopping like some of the missions are.
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I take it you haven't acquainted yourself with 2.1?
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The 'mythical' update that still isn't released, and in fact won't be released for about 2 more months? And thus will have taken them 5-6 months since 2.0 was released?

It may very well be that 2.1 will end-up addressing many of the OP's complaints... Except for the big one, which is that currently little has visibly been done to fix many game bugs that go back months. (Although aren't they supposed to have stopped broken missions from being generated by the server? Or is that still not done yet?)
 
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NMS

NMS
Malakie said:
I have not played in a few months because I got tired of waiting for fixes and things to do...

And the game is still exactly where it was back then.. Missions that don't work, lack of things to do and so on... So is going on? Why has there not been at least a patch to fix some of the glaring problems like missions that cannot be finished? I supported this game from day one but I sure as hell do not feel like I am being supported back now by the DEVS.

I don't care about all the big hype for this new version/update constantly being touted. What I care about is playing a game that is fun, does not have bugs that are apparently IGNORED for months on end and lack of any communication on what the hell is going on. I want something that works NOW THEN worry about this new content and additions.

Am I angry? Damn right I am. Logging in after all this time to see nothing has changed... NO excuse.
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Unfortunely, right now horizons is completely empty and really hope that 2.1 could bring some new(and deep) to the game.
 
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