How to defeat a commander that tries to scan your ship while you're in the station

[WR3ND]

Maybe stop mode switching, stay in solo and have a little patience for the BB updating normally.

The incentive to mode switch is there, so I can't really fault people for doing it (even though I personally don't care for it). As I've mentioned before, it's the incentives and their corresponding game mechanics that need to be dealt with.

 

[snadge]

The incentive to mode switch is there, so I can't really fault people for doing it (even though I personally don't care for it). As I've mentioned before, it's the incentives and their corresponding game mechanics that need to be dealt with.

Same as the incentive for a player to buzz Robigo mines and scan players that do mode switch, swings and roundabouts, risk v reward, if these players were not as risk averse, they could undock and kill the scanning player but they are cowards.

BTW that is the solution for any type of scan, whether it be NPC or player, SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE.

 

[sewerratuk]

Same as the incentive for a player to buzz Robigo mines and scan players that do mode switch, swings and roundabouts, risk v reward, if these players were not as risk averse, they could undock and kill the scanning player but they are cowards.

I understand your sentiment but calling people cowards? Have you seen a standard build for a fast smuggling ship? No weapons, no shields, wafer thin alloys.
So not coming out to fight a fully armed ship is cowardice or good sense?

However, it may be that if smugglers start finding it a big problem they could call on some friends with combat ready ships.. Good emergent gameplay

 

[Altair8800]

Same as the incentive for a player to buzz Robigo mines and scan players that do mode switch, swings and roundabouts, risk v reward, if these players were not as risk averse, they could undock and kill the scanning player but they are cowards.

Most ships you see there in open are ASP's without weapons, and any stuff removed not needed for smuggling and making the ship fast enought to avoid any scanns. No guns, no shooting at others, one could try ramming them, but with weak shields saving weight, that also won't work great. If someone in open is not trying to demolish your ship, it's not necessarily a coward.

 

[ocflyer]

Same as the incentive for a player to buzz Robigo mines and scan players that do mode switch, swings and roundabouts, risk v reward, if these players were not as risk averse, they could undock and kill the scanning player but they are cowards.

BTW that is the solution for any type of scan, whether it be NPC or player, SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE.

Unwilling to undock with a smuggling ship with no shields or weapons to fight a stealth combat ship? That's not cowardice or risk aversion, that's intelligence. Most of the comments on this thread are reasonably well thought out. I may not agree with them all but at least they think about what they're saying.

 

[snadge]

Unwilling to undock with a smuggling ship with no shields or weapons to fight a stealth combat ship? That's not cowardice or risk aversion, that's intelligence. Most of the comments on this thread are reasonably well thought out. I may not agree with them all but at least they think about what they're saying.

read the post above and maybe fit sensibly.

 

[sewerratuk]

My smuggling AspX has a proper bite, I am afraid of no one, it is also pretty tanky with 3A shield and military bulkheads but then again I play the game as though space is a dangerous place, maybe it takes 1 or 2 more jumps to deliver my cargo but I will always fight, if I die, so what, I had fun and what else can I spend my space bucks on apart from new ships?

It is also still plenty fast enough to avoid scans.

I should have said most players are greedy cowards.

And mine is built for speed with a 6A scoop and only 56T of cargo. No weapons, standard hull and no shields. Usually my hull is nicely scarred up by the time I make the first drop, I have boosted into ships that dropped next to me while I was avoiding a Sec scan/pirate and exploded.

I am guessing my smuggling risk is far greater than yours, I did the armed Asp smuggler for a bit but it was way too easy and hence boring. So if there are greedy coward credentials to be given out they aren't to me

 

[ocflyer]

read the post above and maybe fit sensibly.

I fitted my ship sensibly for SMUGGLING, not combat. Go try long distance smuggling for awhile and I expect that your ship configuration will eventually end up like mine, one that is fitted for evasive speed and defense (i.e. chaff) rather than confrontation. The shields merely reduce your speed. With shields, a cobra still won't be able to stand up in combat to a FAS, FDL, or Python which are the ships I saw at Robigo.

 

[snadge]

I fitted my ship sensibly for SMUGGLING, not combat. Go try long distance smuggling for awhile and I expect that your ship configuration will eventually end up like mine, one that is fitted for evasive speed and defense (i.e. chaff) rather than confrontation. The shields merely reduce your speed. With shields, a cobra still won't be able to stand up in combat to a FAS, FDL, or Python which are the ships I saw at Robigo.

ok, well next time take a combat ship of choice, wait for the scanning ship to appear, undock and SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, if more people played like that, they would not do it.

 

[GilliganTX]

ok, well next time take a combat ship of choice, wait for the scanning ship to appear, undock and SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, if more people played like that, they would not do it.

I've never come across those individuals in Open.

I have in Mobius.

 

[snadge]

I've never come across those individuals in Open.

I have in Mobius.

Mobius is full of whiners, on the pad at Robigo more than 1 minute and your chat is full of insane whining, I can well believe it in Mobius, obviously you aren't allowed to SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, which is a shame.

 

[ocflyer]

ok, well next time take a combat ship of choice, wait for the scanning ship to appear, undock and SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, if more people played like that, they would not do it.

If the camper was a computer that thought logically, then blowing them up would stop their behavior. But human nature doesn't follow the actions of a computer. A pilot that has nothing better to do than to patrol a station for hours, scanning and blowing up helpless smuggling ships will continue to do so even after being blown up once or twice. Humans that endow themselves with self-assigned authority really think that they're doing a good thing so no amount of force will dissuade them.
.
My initial post outlined a simple mechanic to defeat the broken scan mechanic, at least until FD corrects the game mechanics to something a little more realistic. Although many posts in this thread were dismissive, insulting or offered silly solutions, some of the posters offered some really interesting ideas to improve the game and/or tweak the existing mechanics slightly so that they adhere to the spirit of the game. My point in this thread was two-fold: (a) describe a temporary method to combat the abusive (IMO) station camper, and (b) foster discussion that would bring some of these good ideas to the surface. Both of those goals have been met. I applaud the posters that offered well considered ideas: (a) block scanning through the station walls, (b) alternative mission incentives, (c) narrowed mission objectives for shadow delivery missions, etc.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Beyond achieving your aim of shutting down another channel of player interaction, care to quantify why you think this?

You're not a law enforcement officer - you're a vigilante.

Even if you do scan someone and find they have stolen goods (or illegal) what are you going to do about it ? Liberating them of the goods and/or destroying them [if they're clearn] is a criminal act so really there isn't anything you (as a civilian) can do. Now, rather than take away this "feature" IMO two things should happen to alter the cargo scanning outcome:

• Remove the "auto mission" failure for others carrying stolen goods. You're not the law - only NPC police should [technically] be able to do this. It's like trying to interdict a clean pilot in super-cruise to have a look at their cargo. That is a crime and only permissible by the police.
• Add instead a bounty-style chit that if you scan something [PC or NPC] carrying stolen / illegal goods you can turn it into the station for
  • some credits, based on the value of the goods scanned
  • some faction increase for being a good civilian and informing the police of said crimes.
  • Maybe also add a faction decrease [or something] for the criminal you scanned ?

Spoiler

I agree, but (playing devil's advocate a little) I would take the more complex, less likely-to-happen, hopeful approach: why not create a gameplay element to give this behaviour some meaning. Here's a quick example:

When player A performs the scan, he receives a mission / message in his inbox to report his findings to the proper authorities / relatives of the victim / parties interested / rival slave gang etc. B will only fail the mission if A completes this mission in turn. The information must be delivered to the destination of B's mission. Multiple missions are issued depending on B's missions. The payout for each of A's missions is substantial. If B completes his mission first, A's mission fails.

This becomes a race between A and B to reach said destination first and complete the mission before the other one. C and D can join in anytime and "steal" A's or B's missions in the same manner. They can choose to fight or outrun each other. Since missions are long range, the decision to perform the run or simply farm new missions becomes relevant.

Bottom line: I would like player scanning to still be a part of shadow deliveries, if it has some meaning in the universe. Sadly, this is not something which can be said about many other things in the game.

Seems someone beat me to it - good suggestion - some positive reason to scan (reward or counter mission) would be welcomed. As you said, Player A get's nothing out the equation. +1 rep sir

 

[ocflyer]

You're not a law enforcement officer - you're a vigilante.

Even if you do scan someone and find they have stolen goods (or illegal) what are you going to do about it ? Liberating them of the goods and/or destroying them [if they're clearn] is a criminal act so really there isn't anything you (as a civilian) can do. Now, rather than take away this "feature" IMO two things should happen to alter the cargo scanning outcome:

• Remove the "auto mission" failure for others carrying stolen goods. You're not the law - only NPC police should [technically] be able to do this. It's like trying to interdict a clean pilot in super-cruise to have a look at their cargo. That is a crime and only permissible by the police.
• Add instead a bounty-style chit that if you scan something [PC or NPC] carrying stolen / illegal goods you can turn it into the station for
  • some credits, based on the value of the goods scanned
  • some faction increase for being a good civilian and informing the police of said crimes.
  • Maybe also add a faction decrease [or something] for the criminal you scanned ?

Wow! I find that I really like your perspective and ideas on this. That is a very clean way to address the problem while maintaining the vigilante role.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Spoiler

I see you jumped passed the part where I explained a lot of people doing this are either RP-ing Federal pilots trying to quash people trafficking, Imperial Customs Officers trying to stamp out illegal slave trading (when they controlled the station) or just plain anti-slavery types.

Don't assume because you don't appreciate or 'get' the other persons idea of RP/gameplay choices that it is griefing, ganking or anything else just because it clashes with your personal stance on the matter.

Additionally, I'd also add a lot of the scanner types generally only do half an hour here or there and do it as an aside to their normal gameplay.

I agree with the RP, but you're a civilian with no real powers to enact the law [other than to cause a mission to fail if they are carrying stolen/illegal goods] and doing so provides you with no tangible benefit.

Adding in a purpose for the scan (reveal a criminal - get a bounty chit // counter mission) would enhance & justify your RP.

 

[Greyhawk]

Seems to me "Fail on scan" is the dumb mechanic. Everything else is fair game.

Game cries out for a "scrambler device" module. Takes up a space on your ship, rating defeats scans from players with lower rating cargo scanners. Only available on anarchy stations. For NPCs, rating adds time to scan to the NPC ships. So higher the rating the longer it takes for an NPC to conclude a scan.

 

[GilliganTX]

Mobius is full of whiners, on the pad at Robigo more than 1 minute and your chat is full of insane whining, I can well believe it in Mobius, obviously you aren't allowed to SHOOT THEM IN THE FACE, which is a shame.

Well you're just a Ray of Sun Shine, aren't you?

Never seen the whining there you're whining about.

 

[Sh1nyTh1ngs]

So I've read this whole thread, it's been interesting but nobody has mentioned one salient fact. Failing the missions does not destroy the slaves in your hold. You are basically being given free money by the scanning CMDR. Free money. Sure, not as much as if you completed the missions you stacked through broken game mechanics (non-persistent BB) but still, a full hold of free slaves is nice. And you can sell them right there on the pad.

Also, the OP recommended a menu log to avoid a negative effect, this is essentially a combat log and is never ok. If you are not prepared for having your game impacted by other humans in a negative manner, you should stay in solo or a PG where those actions are prohibited.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

So I've read this whole thread, it's been interesting but nobody has mentioned one salient fact. Failing the missions does not destroy the slaves in your hold. You are basically being given free money by the scanning CMDR. Free money. Sure, not as much as if you completed the missions you stacked through broken game mechanics (non-persistent BB) but still, a full hold of free slaves is nice. And you can sell them right there on the pad.

Also, the OP recommended a menu log to avoid a negative effect, this is essentially a combat log and is never ok. If you are not prepared for having your game impacted by other humans in a negative manner, you should stay in solo or a PG where those actions are prohibited.

And again this rolls straight back into "Using Solo and PG to avoid me scanning them is totally unfair and undermines my emergent gameplay. Mode-switching is teh evilz, separate BGS for Openz, moar fish in mah barrelz!"

I guess the salient point that the 15 second timer only exists when you are in... wombat? No, ermmmm Combat, that's right, combat.

So you can only combat log, if you are in combat. Not in a station, not in suspended animation, not in socks on bricks on blocks, I do not like green eggs and scan; Sam I am!

 

[Siobhan]

You'd be better off doing it with wet sponges at dawn, than continuing in here.

That sounds like fun!