The Tinfoil Buckets gota go......

[Bobo]

Just a quick ponderance thread while I head back out to the rift and off the edge in my tinfoil asp....

I know the topic has been done to death but every time its raised in general chat, the threads are bombarded by folk yelling how you can explore just fine with 13ly jump range and usually trails off into nonsense discussions about turning off shields etc to save yourself 3% heat

Since we have new toys and hopefully even more to come, its about time we had an exploration yacht that can hold all these pretty machines....and have a jump range to go with it. And I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of having to fly a tinfoil bucket if I want to cover any distance or explore stars on the edge where even with a 37ly jump range you still gota cover a bit of distance in sc before jumping.

Also thinking for the future. Nothing out there currently, but at some point we will get aliens we need to defend ourselves against (please save the "explorers only need to boost and run" line) and few tons of cargo/artifacts worth hauling back.

So is it possible to get an idea of what folks perfect yacht would be? I meen yacht, not scouting exploration craft, a yacht that can sustain self reliance for time out in deep space.

These 4 quick coriolis examples is kinda the line I was thinking. (really ruff ideas made with whats available)

http://coriolis.io/outfit/python/17A6A5A4D7A6A5C1u1u1u0t0t---024f3cf62d0s03v62f2i.Iw18eQ==.Aw18eQ==
http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...e02024kf83c1105v42d2f2i.Iw1-gDB5A===.Aw18ZZA=
http://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_c...02024kf7f73c-2d0sv42f2i.Iw1-gDBFA===.Aw18Z5A=
http://coriolis.io/outfit/anaconda/...24k3cf6f60s042d0nv42i2f.Iw18QDBNA===.Aw18ZlA=

Frag cannons would be C3 multi cannons, I figure they will use similar power.
HRP's only cost you 0.50ly ish, totally worth it imo, last rift explorer used HRP instead of shield and so does the current one, some added safety in fsd.
I reacon at least 300ly of fuel, 400 to be safe.
I don't really know about thrusters and distributor, class 7 enough?
Sensors...its an exploration yacht....it needs good sensors.
Bulkheads, again, its not an exploration scout, its a yacht, so I think reinforced, doesn't cost much in jump.
FSD...really I'd want at set up similar to the above with a 30ish ly jump to boot.
Preferably in a sexy Corvette shape, or a corvette with a few bits pulled out to make room for other stuff.

Anyway...any thoughts anyone?

 

[Greytest]

I agree so far, that i really wish for a dedicated exploration craft that's about python sized. It should be able to fit everything you could wish for as an explorer and have an excellent jump range (even better than the conda). Of course it would have to have some downsides, so it should be rather poorly armed and armored, but good shields and visibilty for example.

As of your other point: Even if we would get such a ship, every proper explorer would again strip it down to its bare bones to get every last bit of range out of it, just so they are able to reach just that little bit farther. So you will always have to decide for yourself, wether to go for max range or a mediocre build with fighting capabilities, regardless of the ship.

Cheers,
CMDR Greytest

 

[Traveller_GG]

Y'see this is where I think people are looking at this backwards. Nothing has 'gotta' go anywhere... the ships are the ships are the ships and as stated above: whatever new or modified ship you come up with, the explorers will strip it to the bare bones to maximise jump range.

What you need to do (IMHO) is have multi-crew available to extend your range:

Ship's engineer to optimise the range / speed / manoeuvrability
Ship's science officer to optimise system / planetary scans
Ship's tactical officer to optimise ships offensive / defensive systems.

To offset all of these you have to pay them and the better ones cost more. This way every expedition becomes an investment but each crew member increases your relevant system's effectiveness by a percentage amount (they are paid per day btw... so if you sign off for a week you'll be stung for a week's salary and you can only dismiss them at stations)

This adds a whole new dynamic to the game while improving what we have.

 

[Mad-Max]

...the explorers will strip it to the bare bones to maximise jump range...
...Ship's engineer to optimise the range / speed / manoeuvrability
...Ship's science officer to optimise system / planetary scans
...Ship's tactical officer to optimise ships offensive / defensive systems.
...To offset all of these you have to pay them and the better ones cost more. This way every expedition becomes an investment but each crew member increases your relevant system's effectiveness by a percentage amount (they are paid per day btw... so if you sign off for a week you'll be stung for a week's salary and you can only dismiss them at stations)
This adds a whole new dynamic to the game while improving what we have.

This! And this connects E with Elite Frontier regarding the crew element, but with extra benefits, not just crew slots to be filled "just because your ship is big".
Repped! (virtual repped...)

 

[newman1702]

Sensors...its an exploration yacht....it needs good sensors.

No, it does not. Better sensors are only really useful in combat and offer absolutely no advantages for exploration. The differences between sensor ratings affect your range in normal space, while supercruise performance of differently rated sensors is pretty much the same (ADS will detect every planet in the system regardless of range, anyway). In addition, all of the builds you posted are those of heavy combat ships with ADS and DSS attached - these are not exploration ships. I expect an explorer to be able to reach destinations that are out of reach to shorter jumpers. Most of the stuff on them is dead weight - you do not need the huge sensors, thrusters (I landed my 'conda on a 9.77g planet with 5D's), or oversized power plants. HRP's are pretty much dead weight when exploring, as are weapons for the moment. This may change one day but on that day we can easily change our builds..

I would say nothing has to go. Exploration is by definition a different and more peaceful profession than anything directly combat related, and the builds reflect that. I rather like that, in order to achieve greater range, you have to make compromises and lighten your ship up. What we need is more variety when it comes to long jumpers. Something to rival the Conda when it comes to range and something that comes between the Conda and Asp would definitely add to variety and fill some gaps.

 

[Jackie Silver]

While I disagree more-or-less entirely with the OP (and the combative tone doesn't help*) for reasons other people have covered - primarily that FD are somewhat limited in what ships they can provide given the modular nature means people will strip them, and huge cargo slots can lend itself to extreme builds of all kinds - I'm interested by one point which the post seems to suggest: does adding armour make any difference to the amount of damage a ship can sustain from running into things in supercruise? It's never seemed to to me - you run into something, you lose a % or two of armour and modules - but it could be useful.



*Sorry, was that your irony meter?

 

[iain666]

nonsense discussions about turning off shields etc to save yourself 3% heat

That's not nonsense - I dropped into a tight gap the other night and was able to point my ship out, floor it and get away with no damage. If I'd been running even 3% or 4% hotter I would have been in module damage territory before the temps started dropping.

stars on the edge where even with a 37ly jump range you still gota cover a bit of distance in sc before jumping

Huh? Distance between systems is distance between systems - if that's 36ly then that's how far you've got to jump and doing 10ly towards or away from the target system in SC won't change that.

 

[CDR Michael Darkmoor]

That's not nonsense - I dropped into a tight gap the other night and was able to point my ship out, floor it and get away with no damage. If I'd been running even 3% or 4% hotter I would have been in module damage territory before the temps started dropping.



Huh? Distance between systems is distance between systems - if that's 36ly then that's how far you've got to jump and doing 10ly towards or away from the target system in SC won't change that.

---
OP may have been mistaking the "getting in range" with the fuel load weight... burning a few tons to actually get to your max jump capability. But I could be "worng"

 

[Satsuma]

Honestly, with the arrival at Beagle Point of (among other things) a Sidewinder, a Type-9, and a Clipper, I think the age of exploring in whatever we damn want to explore in is upon us.

To your specific points, looking at your loadouts you seem to really be building these things as warships. Sure, when we run into Thargoids we'll potentially have to start arming our ships, and sure, when we return to the bubble we face potential interdiction. Your loadouts, however, spend precious tons on uprated bulkheads, large A-rated shields, and HRMs. Not to mention things like frame shift wake scanners.

If you want a big exploration ship with reasonable range and teeth, it does seem like we can already do this with the Anaconda. Here's a loadout that gives decent (not warship-class) shields, decent teeth (again, not warship-class, but 7 turrets is nothing to scoff at), lets you bring all the weapons to bear while you're maneuvering to get out, can carry a serious amount of cargo, has a good-sized hangar bay, multiple AFMUs, multiple heat sinks, and still gets Asp-like jump ranges.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Somewhat sympathetic to adding a pretty explorer type of vessel.

Seriously, the Asp and Conda have looks only a manufacturer could love. I'd like an Orca ship type of deal, something with lots of reflective surfaces to go screenie mad on, 25-30ish lightyears of range would be enough.

 

[Kuroshio]

While I disagree more-or-less entirely with the OP (and the combative tone doesn't help*) for reasons other people have covered - primarily that FD are somewhat limited in what ships they can provide given the modular nature means people will strip them, and huge cargo slots can lend itself to extreme builds of all kinds - I'm interested by one point which the post seems to suggest: does adding armour make any difference to the amount of damage a ship can sustain from running into things in supercruise? It's never seemed to to me - you run into something, you lose a % or two of armour and modules - but it could be useful.



*Sorry, was that your irony meter?

To be fair, the Orca shows that module slots can be restricted to certain types of module. An exploration ship in the Python size range, e.g., could have size 6 slots restricted to the weightless modules (scoop, AFMU), and size 5 or smaller for general use. Combined with a good jump range, you'd end up with a dedicated explorer that wouldn't be much use for anything else. (Like the Orca is now.)

That being said, I'm at Beagle Point in a Python and happy as a tree full of monkeys; looking forward to the slow way back, and don't need any other ship.

 

[Greytest]

Of course you don't NEED very high jump ranges to go almost everywhere in the galaxy. Almost. I just don't like that the ship with the best range possible is a boring allrounder. And i feel like even in the age of Jumponium (and maybe Engnieer optimization soon) we could use a ship with just a few more Ly of maximum jumprange to give every ambitioned explorer a reason to go out there again, even if they have been all over the galaxy already, just so they can reach that one O-type they have seen on their last journey but just couldn't quite reach.

Cheers,
CMDR Greytest