Meta PvP vs Meta Alloys

[DNA-Decay]

Okay, I must be old fashioned.

"Meta" to my mind means "self referential".
Or you know breaking the fourth wall. Uh "aware of it's audience"
and I sort of get the "Meta-alloy" being an alloy of alloys.

And I also get what the current "PvP meta" refers to.
Uh an FDL with rails, B everything and hull reinforcements rigged for silent running. Okay I'm wrong but close.

Why (for twenty five points and your pick of the board):

Why is it a PvP "meta"?
What's so "meta" about a particular ship and module setup?


Your answers on the back of an envelope addressed to "Dude you are so out of touch."

Thanks.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Meta comes the greek for "beyond", and is used in English to denote abstractions or nesting of concepts.

A meta-game in this case is the "game about the game" of PvP. While the "Game" of PvP is "how do I fight to the best of my ability in this ship/situation in order to win", the "meta-game" or "game about the game" is "how do I get into a situation where I will be at an advantage from the get-go".

So in Elite, the "meta-game" is largely decided on the outfitting screen, and when deciding who to wing up with.

Since Elite's PvP is so horribly balanced atm **cough**synthesisrailgunsFASFDL**cough** there is a dominant metagame strategy: a strategy in the metagame that trumps all others. A ship that falls into this strategy is seen as a "meta" ship, because it can be categorized under the dominant strategies of the metagame.

Meta alloys are different; they are simply an alloy made up of other alloys, hence an "alloy of alloys" or meta alloy

Hope this helps!

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think its because meta has gained a new meaning, which roughly relates to 'extra layer'. For example, the movie Inception was very 'meta' in that sense. 'Meta pvp' would refer to the debates/discussions 'above' the game, leading to builds that would not be so prevalent if it were just people playing individually. But yeah, its . Makes whatever you're on about sound more important though.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

So in Elite, the "meta-game" is largely decided on the outfitting screen, and when deciding who to wing up with.

But the outfitting screen is not 'beyond' the game in any way. Its simply part of the game.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

But the outfitting screen is not 'beyond' the game in any way. Its simply part of the game.

It's part of the "game", as in part of the codebase of the program that the game is based around. But it is "beyond" the "game" of PvP. Hence PvP metagame.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I think its because meta has gained a new meaning, which roughly relates to 'extra layer'.

What other meaning is there? The word literally translates to "beyond". How else would you define a higher level of abstraction?

 

[Ian Skippy]

It's part of the "game", as in part of the codebase of the program that the game is based around. But it is "beyond" the "game" of PvP. Hence PvP metagame.

Thats a bit weak IMHO. Where do you draw the line as to what is 'the pvp game'. There is a game, and you can do pvp, and no matter what you do the outfitting screen is central. You can define terms as you like, but I see no advantage to your concept of the 'game' of pvp.

What other meaning is there? The word literally translates to "beyond". How else would you define a higher level of abstraction?

I am sure you know that many words from classical Greek or Latin have been used with meanings totally different from what they may have meant. For example, the 'beyond' you refer to is a spatial term, and originally has no relation with levels of abstraction. Beyond that (pardon the pun): what is so 'abstract' about the outfitting screen? How is it 'beyond' whatever the 'pvp game' is, and what does that 'beyond' mean? It also doesnt hold when you look at how the term is used: 'metaphysics' isnt 'physics beyond physics', but rather, to put it crudely, 'physics without empirical data'. You can go on forever, the term meta has lost a lot of its meaning and gained plenty different meanings. Whether you agree with it or not, its how language works.

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

Why is it a PvP "meta"?

I also feel the word meta is the wrong pick for what pvp-meta actually stands for. It definitely sounds strange im my native language, which is german. Don´t know about english, but due to the origin of the word meta it can´t be far apart.

Maybe the PvP-Special Interest Group has just a faible for funky naming.

 

[Princess Nia]

meta goes way way way back, (in gaming) it's generally way to discuss an openly accepted way to play the game at hand or perform a task.

the meta for league of legends is 2 bot 1 mid 1 top 1 jg. you can go into it more specifically saying the meta is control mages.

same with PvP in elite, it's more of an accepted way to play out a scenario like a fight, usually exploiting (as in using it fully to your advantage) a FoTM build (flavor of the month).

a lot of theorycrafting goes in behind meta builds and finding out what is best and acceptable, lots of testing, lots of numbers, and that in turn, defines the meta.

 

[kalniel]

As noted, it translates to 'beyond' or 'next to' - Artistole coined metaphysics because he didn't know what to call it and his writings on it were next to his writings on physics on his shelf

And as often occurs in English language, words can mean different things in different contexts. Meta discussion about something can mean one that is alongside the original topic, or a step removed (beyond). My pilot might discuss his ship in terms of how well it handles in a firefight. I might start a meta discussion on what armour values the ship has. I might have some data, and I might have some meta data which is not the data itself, but annotation telling me something about that data.

Meta alloys seems to fit the original Artistole coining - it's not alloy, it's the next thing along from it which we don't have a definition for.

 

[Ozric]

You can go on forever, the term meta has lost a lot of its meaning and gained plenty different meanings. Whether you agree with it or not, its how language works.

Just like the (illegitimate child)isation of words like Troll